|
Forums >
Off-Topic Discussion >
Can these forums be saved?
Okay, it's after lunchtime on the West Coast. The General Industry forum has only had only two threads updated today. In this Off Topic forum, only five threads have been updated. That's not good. Used to be an abandoned thread would be lost from the front page in less than a day. Can these forums be saved? Nov 07 17 01:14 pm Link Looknsee Photography wrote: I don't think so! Nov 07 17 01:31 pm Link Looknsee Photography wrote: At least the abandoned threads are not being lost. Nov 07 17 01:34 pm Link Looknsee Photography wrote: No. Nov 07 17 01:48 pm Link You guys are pessimistic - I hope you're wrong, but I have no evidence to the contrary. It would be the loss of a heckuva set of resources. Nov 07 17 02:42 pm Link It's Election Day, everyone is out votin' Nov 07 17 02:55 pm Link Yep. It's also (as expected) a Tuesday, a.k.a. Monday II: Monday Harder. So despair-unto-perdition may be a tad premature. Nov 07 17 03:01 pm Link I don't think so. I think MM was destined to start a downward spiral the minute IB took over. I think most who participate in the forums joined hoping to line up shoots, and then also find the forums useful. However, if one only wants a forum, there are other options. A few moderators took it upon themselves to bring their personal agendas into forum moderation, scaring many valuable contributors off, who are unlikely to ever return. Nov 07 17 03:06 pm Link Managing Light wrote: or we are realistic. we have no clue as to the paid membership figures since the massive change to the message options for the basic/free tier vs. the old 15(?) free messages per day. what we can see is the forum activity - which may or may not mean anything. we don't know if the overall daily message count is up or down. Nov 07 17 03:07 pm Link So, with fewer models & non-effective forums, I'm not sure why I'm staying. Habit, probably. Nov 07 17 04:30 pm Link Looknsee Photography wrote: maybe you are the only one keeping them going. everything will close down after you leave - please switch the light off on the way out. Nov 07 17 04:41 pm Link Abbitt Photography wrote: IB needs more paid staff, us what it is. If I can draw a parallel ... Nov 07 17 04:54 pm Link It'll probably be a ghost town. What else is there to talk about (or fight about...haha) that hasn't been done already. Nov 07 17 04:55 pm Link Managing Light wrote: Those of us that are still here from the beginning... and even those who came a few years later could witness that deadly decline in activity on the forums... Nov 07 17 07:55 pm Link There was a time when a person could only have a few threads which they had started on the first page. That no longer seems to be an issue. Zack makes a good point about IB needing paid staff. When there was greater volume, the mods needed to keep things in control. When they shut down soapbox, one of the mod comments was that a significant majority of mod time went into dealing with problems related to soapbox. Sometimes, as of late, the forums seem like a trap. Threads that push the boundaries are permitted to continue and comments get over the line until, suddenly, twenty people are in the brig. The limit of the rules are blurred by a lack of oversight, and sometimes seem subjective. As they often have. When the activity of an aspect of a business starts to see a significant decrease, staff needs to step up to generate further interest there or other places. Unless they want that aspect to die off. It seems it would be simpler to just close the forums down, or eliminate certain areas. Either way, dead is dead. We can barely help anyone or entertain ourselves if no one wants to participate. Civilly, of course. I use to dance at this country bar. The DJ wouldn't take requests. He had a menu board posted with a list of put downs to counter all the reason people asked for requests. It didn't seem very customer centered. Country music is full of 3/4 time songs, but the management wouldn't play waltzes. They considered them slow dances. Their philosophy was that when they played a slowed dance, the couples would hook up, get amorous and split. Thus impacting alcohol sales. My perspective was that people were there to have a good time, meet people, and if they hooked up, and had a good time, they would be back. Certainly the entire crowd wasn't finding someone new to go home with each night. To prevent the loss of a few drinks each Saturday night, they lost their business. I started to go to ballroom places, and endure the meringues, and bachatas because I would do as many country two steps and a hell of a lot more waltzes, country and otherwise, than I was doing a country dance hall! it seemed absurd. Plus, there were much better dancers. Yet, I get it. There are customers I prefer not to have. I won't write them proposals. I might refer them to other professionals. My God, I have to come hate FEMA related jobs. I listen to the clients and try to give them some free advice, but I cannot charge them enough money to cover the aggravation of dealing with that agency! We aren't IB customers. Not really. We are providers of free content. We are what draws the clicks and what generates the ad revenue. We are something they can do without because there is always someone to replace us. If we were to band together to pressure for changes, the best method would be to remove all nude content from our profiles and stop submitting to the POTD +18 contests. That is what we provide. That is the only thing we do that matters. But the totality of the forum users is such a small percentage, there won't be an impact. On the plus side, the forums are considerably more civil. It has been a long time since someone attacked a person's grammar, rather than rebut the argument. There are still petty rebuttals, but not they are not profuse. Nov 07 17 08:04 pm Link I used to post far more often back when these forums were interesting. Nov 07 17 08:33 pm Link Two questions: 1. What do you really get from the forums? 2. What do you really give to the forums? I've used the forums off and on over the roughly six years that I've been a member, and I'm not sure that I've ever had much of an answer to either question. I've rarely thought that I got much worthwhile feedback on anything, and I've rarely thought that anything I had to say helped anyone much. I've been in various forums of various kinds over the years, and I've usually developed allies on certain issues and seen people whose opinions I valued even when I didn't feel that I knew them at all. I don't think I've ever felt much of that on any of these forums. I come to the forums when I'm bored of other things on the internet. I occasionally see something interesting and write a reply I've occasionally asked for opinions on things. I've occasionally even gotten advice that was okay. When I started, the forums were more active, but they seemed to be dominated by absolute morons who had nothing to offer beyond empty arrogance. As I look back, the only seemingly lasting acquaintanceship that I've made here was with a model that I started following on Instagram. I don't even know whether she would know me from my MM profile, but we exchange comments occasionally on Instagram photos. If a solid number of people have positive answers to these two questions, then the forums can probably survive. If not, they'll disappear. Nov 07 17 08:35 pm Link Hunter GWPB wrote: Almost no one is brigged these days. While some threads get a bit out of hand, we try not to use briggings as often as possible. Nov 07 17 08:50 pm Link We are our worst enemy and we eat our dead Photographers can manage to find new things to argue about on a daily basis and everything is somehow a death match topic. Lets also face it, controversial topics get all the attention, those of us left are just plain boringly polite. Nov 07 17 10:51 pm Link udor wrote: I used to post often. Now I rarely post. Nov 07 17 11:52 pm Link No. Before 2012, MM was the place where nude models came to find paying work. There was plenty of it, and you didn't have to deal with being hustled for hardcore stuff here. The forums were the place to go to get noticed by people who often paid travel expenses/provided lodging in exchange for shoots. It built a thriving underground economy, where the models and photographers across the country, networked, communicated and set up paying gigs - as well as beneficial trade and barter agreements. All of the West Coast and Southwest travel I did, for close to five years, was paid for through barter arrangements set up through photographers I first talked to on the MM forums. The forums worked reciprocally with the site itself to serve marketing and self-promotional purposes, and again, it supported itself through actual income-earning opportunities and trade-travel opportunities for members. I also hosted a variety of MM forum photographers and models in my private home, and opened my home for shoots with MM travelers between the years of 2009 and 2011. There was genuinely some outstanding talent on the site at the time, and with the flow of money and willingness of people to open their homes and studios to travelers, the network of bi-coastal traveling models and photographers provided frequent opportunities for everyone to shoot - a lot, and build diverse skillsets. The place where we all convened to chatter and connect when we were back home, or in different cities was...the forums. The general milieu MM today is based solely around "newbies networking for trade" in their distinct home regions. The amount of paid work has dwindled to a trickle, and trade often ends up with people not receiving images, or general frustrations of varying sorts (trade shoot options here have become positively awful in recent years, both quantity and quality-wise). People no longer open their homes to travelers and trade for travel is not popular here anymore. The whole market and economy upon which MM was built has collapsed. Basically, people have to make money to be able to continue doing work. Period. Or at least break even. MM and its forums grew and thrived during the years it was reliant upon a very real mini-economy based on money and opportunities exchanged between members. It was its own self-sustaining economy. That is gone, and the site itself has gone downhill fast. Nov 08 17 02:23 am Link I never got into Soapbox but I thought it was very lame that they got rid of it. You can’t speak anymore and they have people policing the forums with too much time on their hands. Not much to learn anymore about the industry. Except for the high fives (which is great), most of it are people postulating and punishing. Nov 08 17 04:06 am Link Koryn wrote: You have explained what has happened very well! Nov 08 17 04:28 am Link Brian Diaz wrote: That is interesting. You have facts that aren't available to me, so I can't argue. However, the perception, and the threat of incarceration is there. I am curious what the duration of the brig terms have been. If the number I used is exaggerated for the current year, the gist of what I posted hasn't been challenged. Nov 08 17 04:57 am Link People still get brigged. Usually because they express an opinion in satire which the mods don't get/understand or it disagrees with their overly zealous anything goes very left regime. Nov 08 17 05:17 am Link Brian Diaz wrote: I feel honoured to be amongst the 15 . . . course I got brigged 'cause my submission to the POD 18+ wasn't nude enough . . . I'm a true threat to society . . . Nov 08 17 06:27 am Link sospix wrote: 3 days for me. Sarcasm meter of certain people needed calibrating. Nov 08 17 06:54 am Link Dea and the Beast wrote: Did ya do hard time Miss D . . . like road gang stuff . . . Nov 08 17 07:19 am Link Dea and the Beast wrote: A model recently contacted me about your sarcasm toward me. I told her it was just your humor. Nov 08 17 07:53 am Link First, watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMZlr5Gf9yY --- See anyone you know (or used to know)? It's easy to blame IB or amateur photographers or amateur models or retouchers or people who take their clothes off or people who keep them on but in the words of one of history's greatest philosophers, Pogo Possum, "We has met the enemy and they is us!" If we want the forums to be open, fun, educational, inviting, inclusive and entertaining then we will need to to be more open, fun, educational, inviting, inclusive and entertaining ourselves and we will need o be all those wonderful things here ! That doesn't mean we have to give up the folks we meet on Facebook, Pinterest, Instagram,Mewe, etc. or our memberships there. Indeed, just the opposite is true. It is within our power as members to make this a more welcoming place and to invite the folks we meet on the other sites to join us here.on our playground. But in order for that to be effective, we will need to post some signs that identify it as a playground. Waving signs that say "Toxic Dump" does little to encourage participation. I've been here for almost 10 years, Not an original settler, granted, but still long enough to have seen a few things. In that time some models were able to support themselves as traveling models and a few have been picked up by agencies. but most were not. Some photographers were able to pick up some paid work as fashion, commercial or portrait photographers, retouchers or teachers, but most were not. For the most part we have been a gathering of amateurs in the best sense of the word, those who perform an activity for the love of it. It was that amateurism, that love of the work itself, that made the good old days the good old days. This is our playground,, IB is only the administrator, the school board if you will. IB can do little more than keep the equipment in a reasonable state of repair. It's up to us to make it a place where the other kids will want to come and play. All IMHO as always, of course. Nov 08 17 08:08 am Link sospix wrote: I apologize for the confusion. I was only speaking of forum-related briggings, not suspensions from contests, announcements, etc. Nov 08 17 08:28 am Link I guess it's all relative... What's the competition? Nov 08 17 09:35 am Link Brian Diaz wrote: It's interesting that you would list a 'brigging statistic' for 2017 and refer to it as 'these days'. That's a pretty obvious indication that a MUCH LARGER amount of banishments and briggings transpired in earlier years. I'm quite sure that some of those B&Bs were initiated by moderators who are no longer present on MM. That's like closing the barn doors after all the horses ran out. How about listing an honest statistic of how many banishments and briggings transpired from 2009 to 2016. I might not be the only one interested in viewing those statistics... Nov 08 17 09:42 am Link Brian Diaz wrote: But Brian, of course it's less; the number of postings is a fraction of what it was 6 years ago, the most problematic members have been banned, the most problematic topics banned, the most problematic forum removed, etc... Nov 08 17 10:39 am Link So I have been out of the loop due to medical issues and getting back into photography now. Where is a good place to have casting calls these days? Nov 08 17 10:50 am Link Python Photos wrote: Breadth of experience--I'm not an impressionable 18-year old nor a jaded 50-year old, but the forums provide me with a chance to experience (albeit second-hand) their experiences and (if I'm smart enough to give them some thought) a chance for me to adjust how I deal with those groups. 2. What do you really give to the forums? I think my contribution, such as it is, lies largely in having lived a few extra years which have given me a few extra chances to succeed (sometimes) or fail (more often) at more and more different things than most people much younger than I. And I try to impart the lessons learned from that extra time; that the rejection by that agency, the unopened wine bottles from a monumentally unattended exhibit opening, the audition that produced no reaction more than a resounding silence, are relatively unimportant when compared with the times I've achieved other, often greater successes just because I've tried again. It may sound Pollyanna-ish but until one has experienced it, it can be hard to understand I've used the forums off and on over the roughly six years that I've been a member, and I'm not sure that I've ever had much of an answer to either question. I've rarely thought that I got much worthwhile feedback on anything, and I've rarely thought that anything I had to say helped anyone much. I've been in various forums of various kinds over the years, and I've usually developed allies on certain issues and seen people whose opinions I valued even when I didn't feel that I knew them at all. I don't think I've ever felt much of that on any of these forums. It may be just that at 80 I am getting closer to a time when I will experience no human contact at all, the vicarious contacts I experience in the forums are more important to me than they would have been earlier. I don't find it necessary to develop allies or lasting acquaintances. It's enough to have that moment or two of communication, or in the case of the inevitable morons, the ability to cut the communication short. Anythings else is extra. If a solid number of people have positive answers to these two questions, then the forums can probably survive. If not, they'll disappear. Nov 08 17 11:19 am Link Last I looked there is no link to the forums on the mobile site. People who aren't logging on on desktops anymore don't even know the forums exist. Nov 08 17 11:59 am Link Python Photos wrote: Good questions. I get... Python Photos wrote: I like to think I've started many interesting threads. See above. Nov 08 17 11:59 am Link Sorry--Duplicate post Nov 08 17 12:02 pm Link Laura UnBound wrote: That is true. I have to request the desktop version of the site to see the forums on my tablet. Nov 08 17 12:14 pm Link |
