hbutz New York wrote:
.... now moving onto other tools like Affinity Photo and rawtherapee.

Vision Images by Jake wrote:
It is amazing that you mentioned Affinity Photo, that is a "tremendous bang" for just a few bucks and extremely user friendly, with a great user interface. Works all the pluggins that I use!

I tired Affinity and thought it was good, however they boast that it's non-destructive, but it IS destructive if you're using filters.  Not a deal breaker for some people, but you should be aware.

Affinity's publisher, Serif, has been in the business a long time and has had several breakthrough technologies over the past decade or two.

Zave Smith Photography wrote:
I can't think of a single justification for this move on your part. This feels like grand theft to me!

while it's difficult to know the reasons for a price increase, "grand theft" has a legal definition, which does not fit this particular instance. it is not the same as raising the price of a life sustaining drug from $5,000 to $60,000 per year. just decide if the product is worth the asking price or not.

the subscription model was driven by different problems. pirating of software and generating enough money to improve and innovate are always problems. so is paying for huge, modern offices in the bay area and getting talented programmers to work for reasonable rates. you also must stay ahead of the open source and competitive products while keeping your established base of users. being the market leader isn't simple.

there are different users who can afford the product and those who cannot. the good thing is that photographers have different ways to do the same thing. some photographers do not even know how to use a $50k camera and a box brownie or 5mp cell phone will do as well. other images cannot be done on a cell phone and snapchat. some clients want free images, other can pay well beyond a few million to create one image.

hbutz New York wrote:
.... now moving onto other tools like Affinity Photo and rawtherapee.

Vision Images by Jake wrote:
It is amazing that you mentioned Affinity Photo, that is a "tremendous bang" for just a few bucks and extremely user friendly, with a great user interface. Works all the pluggins that I use!

SayCheeZ!  wrote:
I tired Affinity and thought it was good, however they boast that it's non-destructive, but it IS destructive if you're using filters.  Not a deal breaker for some people, but you should be aware.

Affinity's publisher, Serif, has been in the business a long time and has had several breakthrough technologies over the past decade or two.

I really like the software, but there is a extra step to the work flow, that aid to the non destructiveness of the software, that I found to be quite solid. 

I just need to experiment just a bit more, and if it continue to go the way it is going, I will completely delete the CS6  Suite off all of our Imac's in the studio!!! Tired of waiting for Adobe updates, and I am not going to the cloud!....enough said on that!

LightDreams wrote:
One of the shrewd parts of Adobe's move to a subscription model, is that when the time comes that someone want to changeover to something else, they realize that (in most cases, unless it was carefully planned for) they'll lose the ability to go back and open up any of their old PSD files again, as part of the change.

For many people, that makes it a much higher bar before seriously considering switching.

It was a very shrewd move, business wise.  NOT saying that I approve of it personally...

I hear what you are saying, but it is a REALITY that many will face, like a addiction, the longer you are on it the harder to brake free!... But I had said, Adobe will do great for about 3 to 4 years..... then stuff will come up and stuff will happen.  I am making the switch.

LightDreams wrote:
they'll lose the ability to go back and open up any of their old PSD files again, as part of the change.

Why would they ?

Vision Images by Jake wrote:
Tired of waiting for Adobe updates, and I am not going to the cloud!....enough said on that!

Smart choice... and from what I know about clouds... how can they possibly be trustworthy... they rain on peoples parades... and vanish into thin air...

Select Models wrote:

Smart choice... and from what I know about clouds... how can they possibly be trustworthy... they rain on peoples parades... and vanish into thin air...

Guess you guys don't know much.

Box Top Photography wrote:
I miss the days when you could just own the program outright.

You have never owned software.

LightDreams wrote:
they'll lose the ability to go back and open up any of their old PSD files again, as part of the change.

almost all my photoshop files are saved a layered tiff, no psd

Box Top Photography wrote:
I miss the days when you could just own the program outright.

PHP-Photography wrote:
You have never owned software.

neither are exactly true. for most commercial software, you purchase a license. i have written or commissioned software - that i own.

PHP-Photography wrote:
Guess you guys don't know much.

Oh fur sure... none of us here know anything... we're all here to learn from YOU... right guys and girls?...

And PS:  Just read the first 4 words in your 'About Me' profile... that told ME all I needed to know...

Select Models wrote:

Just read the first 4 words in your 'About Me' profile... that told ME all I needed to know...

I didnt need to open your profile to know all I need about you.

some snap-shooting hot-shot wrote:
I can make easy fixes without crazy-ass layering shit...

What else besides working with layers is considered to be some sort of high-falutin voodoo? Multi-core processors? Nano-coated lenses? Color managed monitors? Color profiles beyond sRGB? Lab or HSL or CMYK color spaces? Hexachrome printing? BlueTooth or WiFi tethering systems?

Ahhh, the joys of working and living in such a simple (minded) world that doesn't involve "Easy fixes without crazy-ass layering shit". 

I will NEVER stop shaking my head at the beliefs that some people are proud to espouse.

Select Models wrote:

If a photographer has a track record for fucking up and not doing the job right the first time... any intelligent and respectable client would fire them from the get-go!   None of the clients I have would tolerate such incompetency.  The software I use can make easy fixes without crazy-ass layering shit...

It's asinine comments like this is why I hate coming into these forums anymore.

Shot By Adam wrote:
It's asinine comments like this is why I hate coming into these forums anymore.

It's insultingly asinine responses like this that have driven thousands of MM members away from participating in these forums over the last several years.  You can add your name to the list of reasons why MM forums are dying on the vine.

Select Models wrote:
If a photographer has a track record for fucking up and not doing the job right the first time... any intelligent and respectable client would fire them from the get-go!   None of the clients I have would tolerate such incompetency.  The software I use can make easy fixes without crazy-ass layering shit...

Shot By Adam wrote:
It's asinine comments like this is why I hate coming into these forums anymore.

Select Models wrote:
It's insultingly asinine responses like this that have driven thousands of MM members away from participating in these forums over the last several years.  You can add your name to the list of reasons why MM forums are dying on the vine.

You both are founts of wisdom.

PHP-Photography wrote:

Guess you guys don't know much.

i would not go as far to say someone don't know much, because they choose to abandon Adobe products.  As for us, it was business decision, that work great for our work flow.... and I have no regrets for that decision! If you like the cloud, awesome thumbs up for you!  As for me, it was just time to say goodbye!

Vision Images by Jake wrote:

if you like the cloud, awesome thumbs up for you!  As for me, it was just time to say goodbye!

You do know that one can use Photoshop and Lightroom without the cloud don't you ?

Vision Images by Jake wrote:
if you like the cloud, awesome thumbs up for you!  As for me, it was just time to say goodbye!

PHP-Photography wrote:
You do know that one can use Photoshop and Lightroom without the cloud don't you ?

Of course, but the updates for CS6 suites is slow to non existent, I found a application that is every bit as good if not better and it uses all of my pluggins that I used with photoshop!  I am not knocking people for going  to the cloud, but don't knock me for feeling like I found a better alternative and I feel that I have!

Select Models wrote:
Theft

Wellllllllll... you can't honestly call it theft.  There are no victims... there are only volunteers.
If you volunteer to get ripped off... you have no one to blame but yourself...

You're right, using the best editing software in the world is being ripped off for what is tantamount to two small cups of coffee at Starbucks. It's amazing people are so stupid to actually believe this is being ripped off. For those of us with brains who actually know how to use this software (not the ones who incessantly whine and complain about it because they aren't smart enough to understand its value) it's a bargain.

Shot By Adam wrote:
For those of us with brains who actually know how to use this software (not the ones who incessantly whine and complain about it because they aren't smart enough to understand its value) it's a bargain.

Some people aren't smart enough to comprehend what a bargain is, even if it ran them over with a truck.

With the initial purchase of Adobe Photoshop, plus several upgrade costs for all the CS versions, plus at least 2-3 pre-sets and dozens of plug-in purchases tossed in, then add in several years of subscription monthy payments... what kind of dollar figure are we looking at?... WELL OVER $2000!

Initial purchase price of the editing software I've been using for over FIFTEEN YEARS (with magazine cover credits and several awards won with images edited with this software)... combined with 2 upgrades and zero monthly payments... what kind of dollar figure are we looking at?... LESS THAN $50!

Select Models wrote:
Initial purchase price of the editing software I've been using for over FIFTEEN YEARS (with magazine cover credits and several awards won with images edited with this software)... combined with 2 upgrades and zero monthly payments... what kind of dollar figure are we looking at?... LESS THAN $50!

Once again... fine... it works for you.  I'm happy for you, others are happy for you and you should be happy too.
Once again... the software you used would be totally WORTHLESS to most photographers, especially me.

I'm still trying to comprehend why you don't feel totally ripped off for paying a few bucks for software when there are MUCH BETTER  alternatives out there that are totally FREE!

SayCheeZ!  wrote:
there are MUCH BETTER  alternatives out there that are totally FREE!

There are?  Do they have cloning tools?... can they liquify?... do they have dozens of 'one click fixes'?  Please list all these free alternatives you're referring to... I'll be waiting... and I'm quite sure I won't be the only one...

Select Models wrote:
Please list all these free alternatives you're referring to... I'll be waiting... and I'm quite sure I won't be the only one...

Gimp (for one).. and it has layers!

SayCheeZ!  wrote:
Gimp (for one).. and it has layers!

Excuse me... but you said 'alternatives'... which refers to alot more than just one.  Gimp's been around for years and is no surprise in the image editing world.  It has a very small 'edit window'... it does not liquify, nor does it have dozens of 'one click fixes' that I use to get to finished images within minutes.  I'm still waiting... and they all better be free as you mentioned...

Tony Lawrence wrote:
A Google search shows this:   https://superdevresources.com/online-picture-editors/    Photoshop and Lightroom are wonderful but pricey for some of us when we make very little from our work.

Kudos to you for coming up with links to those programs... job well done.  One thing I noticed thou... if you take the time to investigate those eleven listed... you'll see that almost all of them are SERIOUSLY lacking in the quality image editing tools necessary to produce professional results.  A few of them may be 'workable'... but most of them resemble cell phone apps.

Select Models wrote:
'... it does not liquify,

Gimp calls it 'Warp'

nor does it have dozens of 'one click fixes' that I use to get to finished images within minutes.

They're called "presets"

SayCheeZ! wrote:
Gimp calls it 'Warp'


They're called "presets"

Have you utilized them 'realtime'?  I did a few years back as a comparison experiment against what I use.  In my opinion, both the 'presets' and 'warp' tools were very crude applications at best... resulting in far less than satisfying and majorly pixal destructive results.  That could be the reason why Gimp's a free app... as it's tools do not provide what most professionals consider 'acceptable' results, compared to the other 'more fine-tuned' image editing programs available... but NOT the $2000 one...

And what about all those other free 'alternatives' you mentioned?... NOT lettin ya off the hook on all those.

LA StarShooter wrote:
At the recommendation of a professional photographer who specializes in animal photography I tried out Lightroom in 2011. At first I had a hard time with grasping the flow of photoshop tools and what they did and how to use them.

If you're aiming at advertising campaigns Adobe Photoshop packs a lot of power. Compositing is common in advertising. If you shoot beauty Photoshop is still the king of programs.

Photoshop is not cloud-based. You download the suite onto your computer from their site and it operates on your computer. The activation of the program is stored online.

Advantages of this subscription model: you can download it as many times as needed, if you wipe it from your computer. I recently had to reformat my computer that I bought in October last year. This time around, as I downloaded the programs again, I just downloaded two: Photoshop and premiere. I'll download Lightroom in a couple of weeks.  Premiere is a good video editing program. I am going to learn about how to use After Effects. And then download it again.

Adobe is facing challenges with its model: Hollywood. Many videographers are diving into DaVinci resolve14-it's not subscription-based. It's a one-time purchase of $300 and its gaining fans. This will force Adobe to improve Premiere.  The argument for DaVinci Resolve is that updates appear to be free and that is until they release a new version. Its from Black Magic the video camera company and they have an advantage-they really deeply understand video cameras so a lot of videographers rate their editing flow as better than Adobe's.

Adobe's entire suite is good bang for buck. I edit with photos the following way as I'm neither an event shooter, a family portrait photographernor a sport's photographer: download in View NX2, using editing tools there, then create Tiff files and go to Photoshop. That preserves the colour. I had problems with tonality going straight to Lightroom and did some research. The View NX2 comes with the camera. You can do white balancing in it, using grey.

I have been a fan and owner of many of Adobe's Suites (CS2, CS3, CS4 and CS6), I am very familiar with Adobe's bang for the buck.  And now that I am really familiar and up to speed on Affinity Photo, I should have made the switch long ago! It is a very powerful tool and very user friendly in my opinion... I do slightly disagree with you on Adobe being king on the beauty side of the equation.  Affinity Photo & Affinity Designer is a very serious contender, but his is only my opinion. 

I am knot knocking are criticizing what Adobe products can do, like I mentioned I have been a user of many of there suites and at this stage of the game, I myself prefer Affinity!

LA StarShooter wrote:
...
Adobe is facing challenges with its model: Hollywood. Many videographers are diving into DaVinci resolve14-it's not subscription-based. It's a one-time purchase of $300 and its gaining fans. This will force Adobe to improve Premiere.  The argument for DaVinci Resolve is that updates appear to be free and that is until they release a new version. Its from Black Magic the video camera company and they have an advantage-they really deeply understand video cameras so a lot of videographers rate their editing flow as better than Adobe's.
....

Adendum to the Hollywood comment made.

I was surprised that Adobe Premier is not their first choice any longer against Blackmagic's Davinci Resolve software in that it can be locked locally and no internet connection is needed on a standalone where there is no possibility of a lawsuit for losing someone's intellectual property online due to a hacker, Cloud snoopware, etc. freely and possibly unknowingly accessing the material of the editor/colorist.

Add to that, Blackmagic has a fleet of studio-quality editing hardware that supports their software as well as cameras too where Adobe does not.  They do seem more proactive than Adobe in addressing issues quicker as well, imho for the video people.  Their price drop last year was unheard of when they dropped from $1,000 for the professional "Studio" version down to $299 as well and including the audio editing as well in version 14.  That and a lot of people using their freeware version (Less features though than Studio.) as well.

PHP-Photography wrote:

Guess you guys don't know much.

ROFL - Perhaps it's different in the developed countries of Europe, but here in the United States?
Good description by Select Models.  Larry Ellison is too busy with his mega-yachts and arenas to build a stable platform in the cloud - the updates are constant, and everything interrupts your work flow.