Brian K PHOTO wrote:
I always send a friend request before messaging a model.

Did you wait until the model accepted the friend request before messaging?

Hollywood Bodypainting wrote:

Did you wait until the model accepted the friend request before messaging?

I believe only paying members, such as those in VIP status, can email members who are not yet friends with them.  The rest have to wait until a friend request is accepted to message each other.

Model Mayhem Edu wrote:
posted a sitewide message/announcement and forum post.

Where exactly was this posted? I have been trying to find it. I do not recall hearing about this policy before.

I posted a casting call recently, and I just noticed that a few models sent me friend requests around that time, which I had not accepted (I don't check friend requests more than a few times a year). I am wondering now if they might have been trying to message me about the job and could not?

Todd Meredith wrote:
Photographers complained about retouchers' unsolicited emails offering services and asked the site to do something about it.  They came through as requested.

I was one of the people who was annoyed by the constant retoucher spam, and I even complained about it, but I certainly did NOT want the nuclear solution of prohibiting all messaging! If they wanted to put limits on retoucher messaging, fine, since they seemed to be the biggest offenders, but under no circumstances should models and photographers ever be prevented from contacting each other on a model-photographer networking site. No wonder why I see more and more models asking photographers to contact them off MM.

GoldRoseMedia wrote:
I posted a casting call recently, and I just noticed that a few models sent me friend requests around that time, which I had not accepted (I don't check friend requests more than a few times a year). I am wondering now if they might have been trying to message me about the job and could not?

When applying or replying to a casting call, you don't have to be friends.  No need to go outside of the casting call form to message the originator.

Black Z Eddie wrote:
When applying or replying to a casting call, you don't have to be friends.  No need to go outside of the casting call form to message the originator.

I know that, but I think some models might not know it. I have had models reply to casting calls without using the reply form.

GoldRoseMedia wrote:
I know that, but I think some models might not know it. I have had models reply to casting calls without using the reply form.

Yeah, I dunno.  Who knows why some people do what they do, especially, since the "Apply" and "Reply" are big-ass colored buttons. 

GoldRoseMedia wrote:

I was one of the people who was annoyed by the constant retoucher spam, and I even complained about it, but I certainly did NOT want the nuclear solution of prohibiting all messaging! If they wanted to put limits on retoucher messaging, fine, since they seemed to be the biggest offenders, but under no circumstances should models and photographers ever be prevented from contacting each other on a model-photographer networking site. No wonder why I see more and more models asking photographers to contact them off MM.

I'm not disagreeing with your logic and agree with most of what you've said.  I don't believe it would be right to limit some members' contact with others while certain other groups retain that privilege.

There was also plenty of models who voiced their concerns, as I noted above, so that probably had something to do with it all. 

I agree that not being able to communicate is a huge problem and will be the reason for the eventual demise of the site.

Black Z Eddie wrote:
Yeah, I dunno.  Who knows why some people do what they do, especially, since the "Apply" and "Reply" are big-ass colored buttons. 

It's not that hard to envision why some models might miss it. The casting calls look much different on mobile devices than they do on full screens. The Apply button is all the way at the bottom, and some models probably never get that far. They read the first few lines of the casting call description, then they click through to the photographer's portfolio. If they like what they see there, then they try to message the photographer from his profile. Then MM tells them they can't unless they send a friend request first. I'm not saying this happens all the time -- most models do apply via the casting call -- but I would say at least one in every 6 or 7 replies come via direct private message.

It could be a problem in the other direction, too. I know a lot of models probably don't even check the casting calls on a regular basis, so sometimes I will message a model directly with a link to the casting call, asking if they are interested. A number of models have replied to these messages, saying that they are interested. Fortunately I have a legacy account so I was able to message them, but otherwise I would have missed the chance to work with these models, and they would have missed the chance for a paid shoot.

Todd Meredith wrote:
I agree that not being able to communicate is a huge problem and will be the reason for the eventual demise of the site.

The ability of models and photographers to communicate is the only reason for MM to exist. It is the only unique selling point MM has. Everything else that can be done here is done better by other sites.

Black Z Eddie wrote:
Yeah, I dunno.  Who knows why some people do what they do, especially, since the "Apply" and "Reply" are big-ass colored buttons. 

GoldRoseMedia wrote:
It's not that hard to envision why some models might miss it. The casting calls look much different on mobile devices than they do on full screens. The Apply button is all the way at the bottom, and some models probably never get that far.

Yes, the Apply button is way at the bottom of the screen.  But, it blocks the description so they would have to scroll to read the casting call.  Also, the Apply button is static, meaning it's always in at the same spot no matter how much you do or don't scroll. 

GoldRoseMedia wrote:

The ability of models and photographers to communicate is the only reason for MM to exist. It is the only unique selling point MM has. Everything else that can be done here is done better by other sites.

Yes it was an ill conceived change. As for models getting junk mail having nothing to do with modeling that is a simple fact of life for attractive ( and not attractive women too). The way to deal with that is to report it, have admin deal with it and not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

roger alan wrote:
Nevertheless, I often see this: "...no friend request without  a message first ...." (or similar) on the main pages of both models and photographers.

So apparently many members are not fully aware of the implications of the changes that were made. Not good for them and certainly not good for MM. And probably something can could easily be addressed.

Count me as one.  I just updated my profile.

I'm legacy so I can send messages, but does this change mean that someone with a basic account can't reply to my message without being friends?  Or is it just initial messages?

Designit - Edward Olson wrote:
I so often see models state that they don't accept friend requests without having received a message of introduction first.

would not surprise anyone that those type of bio messages were written well before the messaging system changed - and they have not been updated since then. many will not see the system broadcast and do not have email notification. if they are not active, they will never know of a change.

Gary Davis wrote:
I'm legacy so I can send messages, but does this change mean that someone with a basic account can't reply to my message without being friends?  Or is it just initial messages?

they can reply to messages and apply for castings - they just can't create a new message to "out of network" people - which is a poor choice of terms if you ask me.

Designit - Edward Olson wrote:
Did MM notify models about the messaging change?

Yes they did, everyone was notified.

MoRina wrote:
I think the change was made to steer new members to paid accounts, not to help models reduce unwanted messages.
...

Exactly.   It’s the same kind of move that caused OMP to become dysfunctional years ago.  Many,  myself included quit OMP and joined MM.   

Many have already abandoned MM in favor of other platforms that don’t so restrict communications, and I expect that number would be much greater if there was presently another notable model-photography site people could choose instead.

GoldRoseMedia wrote:
I was one of the people who was annoyed by the constant retoucher spam, and I even complained about it, but I certainly did NOT want the nuclear solution of prohibiting all messaging! If they wanted to put limits on retoucher messaging, fine, since they seemed to be the biggest offenders, but under no circumstances should models and photographers ever be prevented from contacting each other on a model-photographer networking site. No wonder why I see more and more models asking photographers to contact them off MM.

I was one of the people who was annoyed by the constant retoucher spam, but I didn't complain because I couldn't see any cure that wasn't worse than the disease. In any case basic members were limited to 5 messages/day under the old system, which kept things down to a dull roar.

In any case, the annoyance factor depends on what one is "in the market" for. I'm not "in the market" for hiring retouchers or make-up artists, so those messages annoy me. But I am in the market for hiring models, so messages from models don't annoy me. For photographers who don't hire traveling models, I'd expect traveling-model messages to be annoying - and I have seen complaints. But again, I can't think of any fix that doesn't make things worse overall.

MoRina wrote:
...
So MM basically just added a layer of nonsense.

That's the point. I don't know or care why MM changed the messaging system and can't be bothered to speculate.
It's another layer of nonsense that makes the site less useful for me.

roger alan wrote:
Nevertheless, I often see this: "...no friend request without  a message first ...." (or similar) on the main pages of both models and photographers.

So apparently many members are not fully aware of the implications of the changes that were made. Not good for them and certainly not good for MM. And probably something that could easily be addressed.

How many edit their profiles in the past year? Many have last year's travel schedule shown. They may add images, even add credits, but not everyone is keeping their profile message up to date. Now consider how many haven't been active on MM since the policy change.

Todd Meredith wrote:
I agree that the limits placed on messaging have curtailed a lot of creativity between members but let's look at why the site did what it did.

Models complained about photographers' unsolicited emails, some of them having nothing to do with working together at all but more in line with a hook up.  I've heard this from more than a few current members and three times recently from former members, which leads me to believe there's am element of truth to the issue. 

Photographers complained about retouchers' unsolicited emails offering services and asked the site to do something about it.  They came through as requested.  I've also seen photographers complaining about traveling models contacting them, unsolicited, with their rates and availability.  I guess it was just too hard to politely say, Thanks, but not I'm interested at this time.  Take care."

The secret model forum...well, let's just leave that for another time. 

Sending a friend request has limited success.  I recently received a message from a model now only doing paid work, proposing collaboration on a project that now benefits her needs.  I had sent her a friend request over a year ago, a request that is still in "Pending" status. 

Unless the communication issue is addressed somehow, we will continue to have more members leave the site, less great work being created and the site's death spiral continuing to pick up speed.  Everyone needs to also beware what they ask for because it may just be delivered.

+1. Be careful what you ask for.

Annoying friend requests were simple to deal with. Just ignore them. It prevents the person from sending more requests to you.

Eric212Grapher wrote:
Now consider how many haven't been active on MM since the policy change.

Unfortunately that's a HUGE number.  There's far to many of what used to be memberships... that are now photo tombstones...

Select Models wrote:
There's far to many of what used to be memberships... that are now photo tombstones...

Lol!  Love that term. 

Yani S wrote:
Well this is New news to me! I been a member since this place basically first started. Was going to rejoin. But not if I have to wait for friends requests. Then message. thats just annoying. I dont even see the point in it? How does this help anyone? Ill wait to join again, when they change it back to simpler times.

You have a Legacy account, and, as I stated earlier in this thread, that means your messaging limit was not changed.

Model Mayhem Edu wrote:

You have a Legacy account, and, as I stated earlier in this thread, that means your messaging limit was not changed.

Ok so if I rejoin on payment its not going to reset me. Like it did in 2008?

Yani S wrote:
Ok so if I rejoin on payment its not going to reset me. Like it did in 2008?

I don't understand what you mean by "rejoin." Are you talking about upgrading? If so, your account features change to the level you select. If you downgrade at a later date your account revers back to it's pre-upgrade level (Legacy).

Or, are you talking about a new/different account?

Model Mayhem Edu wrote:
You have a Legacy account, and, as I stated earlier in this thread, that means your messaging limit was not changed.

not quite. messaging has changed. no matter what your membership tier, other basic members cannot initiate a message to you without a friend request first. that still cuts off 1/2 of the messaging features for the legacy and paid membership. other members initiating a message is just as important.

in touting your new "feature" you neglect to see the other side of the coin.

Leonard Gee Photography wrote:
not quite. messaging has changed. no matter what your membership tier, other basic members cannot initiate a message to you without a friend request first. that still cuts off 1/2 of the messaging features for the legacy and paid membership. other members initiating a message is just as important.

in touting your new "feature" you neglect to see the other side of the coin.

While I appreciate the feedback, I didn't say messaging has not changed. I clearly stated "your messaging limit" has not changed. That means the number of messages you can send.

In addition, prior to the change there were limits on basic members ability to initiate messages.

Yani S wrote:

Ok so if I rejoin on payment its not going to reset me. Like it did in 2008?

Oh no meant that I stopped paying so figured I was not a member anymore? I stopped now because it seems like models only want to get paid. Used to be we all just wanted to create. Now its all on a time limit and how many this for this amount. Im not talking nudes because I dont shoot those either. Nothing wrong with it. Just not my style. But it was fun when model and photographer where able to chill and come up with great ideas.
I was a member long before 2008, Stopped because I was paid to travel and shoot all over the world. Come back and it reset. So I thought it do it again?

Leonard Gee Photography wrote:

not quite. messaging has changed. no matter what your membership tier, other basic members cannot initiate a message to you without a friend request first. that still cuts off 1/2 of the messaging features for the legacy and paid membership. other members initiating a message is just as important.

in touting your new "feature" you neglect to see the other side of the coin.

Thats a real good point! That stops the flow of information for sure! Also your going to get hit with a ton more friend request that you might not want to be forced to have.