What Fun Productions wrote:

I understand a business has costs.

The vets in my area all have very similar pricing.... collusion? Probably, at least unspoken. I called Vets for comparison shopping before the cat's teeth cleaning. They were all around $800.

BTW, I spent the $800. Because I love my cat.

Also, a very important point to note in that cost: cats are notoriously poor at following directions. If your dentist tells you to open up, you do it. If the vet tells the cat that, there's a 50/50 chance they end up with bloody arms.

That $800 isn't the cost of cleaning YOUR cat's teeth. That's the average cost of docile cats, aggressive cats, and everything, lumped into one. Plus there's insurance in there, in case the cat has to be put under and maybe doesn't come back. Again, not an issue with dentists - which is why going to the dentist is so much cheaper, even though the actual job takes longer.

On top of all that, there's the fact that a fair bit of people are starting to have pet insurance. Not a lot, but enough to influence the price structure. I recently had a poor ER experience, so lemme' tell you a little about how dodgy medical billing can be, for those unaware.

I had a pretty minor issue that had never come up before, so I didn't realize it wasn't a big deal. I've never been to the ER on my own dollar before, but I've done urgent care before. So I end up with a bill for the better part of five grand, for something that (I know now) only required about $20 worth of first aid supplies and lots of patience and fresh bandages.

I found out when talking to my insurance company that for ER visits, the insurance company pays a flat, contractual rate. What the hospital did, apparently, was charge almost exactly my deductible, plus that contractual rate. If I had a lower deductible, they presumably would have charged less, because they could have gotten less. I was paying cash when I went to urgent care, which meant that right off the bat the cost was going to be about $3000 less, because they didn't have that $3000 guaranteed check. Or around there ... I think it was more like $3400, but whatever. The insurance company essentially said (I think - they were being quite political) that the cost was certainly dodgy, but it wasn't so far out of line for the procedure that they could call them on it. All I could really do was just not go back again.

Not to get too soapboxy, but that's the best argument for a single-payer health care system. Forget the cost, the coverage, all that stuff is debatable. What isn't debatable is that it would make it a lot harder for certain hospitals/vets (if it extended to vets) to change significantly more than the competition, or to charge more based on what level of insurance you carry or how worried or naive you seem. Stuff costs what it costs.

What Fun Productions wrote:

I understand a business has costs.

The vets in my area all have very similar pricing.... collusion? Probably, at least unspoken. I called Vets for comparison shopping before the cat's teeth cleaning. They were all around $800.

BTW, I spent the $800. Because I love my cat.

I apologize to you. I realize that I misread one of your sentences, which influenced the comments I made in the post I made previous to this one.  Consequently, I was too harsh.  Sorry. I don't think my basic sentiments are wrong.  It isn't collusion that sets the price. They are set more or less by the market.  If they are artificially high, someone will lower them to gain market share and make up for the lower price through a higher volume.  In my area, in my profession, there is a wide range of prices that my competition and I charge to do what should be the same work.  However, the performance criteria may also vary widely and the prices are influenced by who the primary customers are.  Those that primarily work for corporations charge more than those that primarily work for residents.  Even then, the prices vary, and it is my contention that the client that goes for the lowest price is paying more for the services they get than they would get with someone who is higher but fair. I also sub-contract for some of my competitors. I get what I would have bid for the job if they contacted me directly, but the guy I am doing the work under, gets a reasonably good mark up.

Ultimately, no one can take advantage of you without your permission.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
Ultimately, no one can take advantage of you without your permission.

No, but they use emotional blackmail (people's love of their pets) to set prices with virtually no market forces such as competition. Dentists do this also with pricing.

If I need a alternator for my car, I can get a whole range of prices. If I need my house painted, I can get a whole range of prices... If I need a new gate installed... a whole range of prices.

If I want my cat's teeth cleaned... not so much a range of prices... unspoken collusion. They ignore the forces of competition.

What Fun Productions wrote:
No, but they use emotional blackmail (people's love of their pets) to set prices with virtually no market forces such as competition. Dentists do this also with pricing.

If I need a alternator for my car, I can get a whole range of prices. If I need my house painted, I can get a whole range of prices... If I need a new gate installed... a whole range of prices.

If I want my cat's teeth cleaned... not so much a range of prices... unspoken collusion. They ignore the forces of competition.

So, you're essentially accusing the local vets (and apparently local dentists as well) of deliberately engaging in price fixing? Hm.

kickfight wrote:

So, you're essentially accusing the local vets (and apparently local dentists as well) of deliberately engaging in price fixing? Hm.

Bingo!

What Fun Productions wrote:
Bingo!

OK, but just because pricing is consistent across a particular service category, within a particular area, doesn't mean it's actually price fixing. When I lived in Redmond WA, the local dentists were uniformly pretty expensive because it was an upscale area where leasing office/professional space was priced accordingly. But I found a fantastic dentist in a more modest neighborhood in Seattle that was much cheaper... but I had to drive 45 minutes each way.

kickfight wrote:

OK, but just because pricing is consistent across a particular service category, within a particular area, doesn't mean it's actually price fixing. When I lived in Redmond WA, the local dentists were uniformly pretty expensive because it was an upscale area where leasing office/professional space was priced accordingly. But I found a fantastic dentist in a more modest neighborhood in Seattle that was much cheaper... but I had to drive 45 minutes each way.

Many people in Arizona drive to Mexico to get dentistry.

My Dentist drives a new Tesla.

What Fun Productions wrote:
Many people in Arizona drive to Mexico to get dentistry.

I'm sure they do.

What Fun Productions wrote:
My Dentist drives a new Tesla.

Please pass along my sincerest condolences and best wishes for a speedy recovery.

What Fun Productions wrote:

Many people in Arizona drive to Mexico to get dentistry.

My Dentist drives a new Tesla.

Wow, that's shitty. How dare someone in a professional field that requires an advanced degree drive a brand of car that starts at $35,000?  I think anybody that drives anything more expensive than a used Corrola is obviously ripping people off.

Zack Zoll wrote:
Wow, that's shitty. How dare someone in a professional field that requires an advanced degree drive a brand of car that starts at $35,000?  I think anybody that drives anything more expensive than a used Corrola is obviously ripping people off.

I had to log in to say lol .

On that note, I don’t fault anyone who had to pay through the nose for higher education to work in their given profession. Anyone that has that kind of dedication deserves to harbor the benefits of their efforts.

As for unscrupulous vets, sure, they can be out there. You have this expectation that all vets go into their chosen profession out of love for animals. I love animals too. You can’t deny the upkeep of equipment, expertise & the maintenance of a working space & staff. I think on the most part, it’s a pet owner’s responsibility to price compare and do some due diligence on their pet’s behalf. If you can’t afford to keep a pet, don’t.

What Fun Productions wrote:
Here's a Vet who is in it for the right reasons.

If you love animals, this is a great TV show:

"Dr. Jeff felt dismayed that some veterinarians were driven by money rather than the well-being of their patients, so Dr. Jeff committed to his 'low-cost animal care for all' mission statement and moved to Denver. Working more than 100 hours a week, he built his Denver clinic and started traveling across America with his mobile clinic, which offers animal care to those who struggled to access it or can't afford it.

Dr. Jeff's biggest cause is spaying and neutering animals in an effort to control the population of cats and dogs that end up in shelters and improve health issues associated with intact pets. He provides low-cost spays and neuters for his clientele and has performed more than 165,000 surgeries."

https://www.animalplanet.com/tv-shows/d … jeff-young

This woman drove 17 hours to see Dr Jeff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoDPHSO6Ano

That’s beautiful but working 100 hours a week is a death sentence. Self-sacrifice is a lovely thing. Too much & you lose sight of your own needs. Self-preservation is not selfish, it is a basic component of life.