Camera Buff wrote:
My question:
What's the difference between a good professional photographer and an equally good amateur photographer?

My thoughts:
- An amateur photographer gets to choose whatever, whenever and whoever they wish to photograph, without the worry of having to please anyone other than themselves.
- Whereas it's the opposite for a professional photographer, who has to photograph whatever, whenever and whoever a customer or client wants or needs, with the added worry of having to please others in order to make a successful livelihood.

Your Answer:

I think that you've made a really, really good point!

I want to add that even tho you have to satisfy the client/customer, sometimes, or almost always as in my case, you are being hired for your creativity and style, which then helps you to solve your clients problem or enhance their vision.

I have to say, on occasion, by far not often enough, when I can shoot a personal project... I feel such a liberation that I don't have to answer anybody but myself and you have only to deal with your own creative pressure... not the one that comes from a professional shoot.

Alexandra Vincent wrote:
According to a recent post I read in the photography forum, the difference is whether or not one carries a backpack or a Domke-type shoulder bag.

*facepalm*

LOL!!!

You left out the part about professionals shooting Polaroid passport photos at Kinko's.
I was really good at it!!! First shot, done.
Except this one time when a very beautiful young lady thought we were supposed to make her passport photo look good.
6 shots, all the same. Plus she was engaged to be married. So I asked if she had any sisters, that's professionamul, right?

Shadow Dancer wrote:

LOL!!!

You left out the part about professionals shooting Polaroid passport photos at Kinko's.
I was really good at it!!! First shot, done.
Except this one time when a very beautiful young lady thought we were supposed to make her passport photo look good.
6 shots, all the same. Plus she was engaged to be married. So I asked if she had any sisters, that's professionamul, right?

The mostest professhunul.

Le' artiste'  !!!11!!!!1!!!

Camera Buff wrote:
- Whereas it's the opposite for a professional photographer, who has to photograph whatever, whenever and whoever a customer or client wants or needs, with the added worry of having to please others in order to make a successful livelihood.

I am sure from the outside that the impression you have written seems logical. I have seen the same or similar expressed by many in the past. I also realize that likely nothing or very little I say will inform your opinion, but I'll give it a go anyway.

This sentiment has little or no bearing on how I have worked in the industry for 25+ years now. It is uninformed and quite frankly ignorant. Your statement taken as a whole suggest that a professional photographer has no guidance over their own photography or career. This is simply mistake.  While there might be some or many who willing to take on any project, I really don't find that to be the case and have never operated my business that way.

'whatever, whenever and whoever' is absolute bullshit. In fact the opposite is more commonly true. In general photographers are rewarded for going deeper not wider. Every photographer is in control of their portfolio. Some might not choose to curate it very closely, but that is on them, not their clients. If you only show food in your portfolio, you are virtually assured that you are not going to get hired to shoot cars. If you hate shooting food, then why the fuck did you put food in your portfolio. A career in photography exists across many images and many shoots.

It has been my experience that photographers are considered for projects that are within their wheelhouse. Then once client relationship has been established, more diverse offers might come, but typically at the outset projects relate to portfolios. Some clients actually hire photographers to shoot the things they like to shoot because they actually saw it in their portfolios. Strange how that happens.

In my case, I felt that my work (highly paid at the time) was taking me in a direction that I wasn't interested in. I made the decision to re-chart my direction. I invested in myself and was able to chart a course that I was more interested in. Had money been the only guidepost I would have taken different paths. In the end, my decisions satisfied both my photography and my business. The suggestion that the totality of my creative output for the past 25 years has been solely at the pleasure of others is insulting.


And another thing:
"- An amateur photographer gets to choose whatever, whenever and whoever they wish to photograph, without the worry of having to please anyone other than themselves."

Do you really believe this? As an amateur photographer, do you believe that you are given all the access and opportunities that a photographer working on assignment, with a budget and a designated publication does? I would say likely not. I feel like I have put myself in the position on several projects and opportunities so that I could gain the resources in order to take more and better photos. For me this is more salient and long-lasting.

Camera Buff wrote:
So regardless of my ability (or not) and/or my attitude towards how I approach my photography assignments, would I be more credible as a photographer if I was to say that I am a professional, rather than an amateur, photographer?

*Why do you have to say if you are a professional or an amateur photographer...?
.....I just say....."I am a photographer"........
I show them my shots or hand them my card....and I let my pictures...speak for themselves.....!!
...I know what I am....whether anyone agrees or not..!!
.... I have never had anyone ask me which I am...an amateur or professional...
....depending on what I am shooting...they just know....lol

TEB-Art Photo wrote:
You are both right.

I have long contemplated going pro. Money is good. But there's the business development time where you aren't sustainable and there's the aspect of shooting subjects you just aren't interested in. I LOVE shooting people, but the thought of shooting a couple consigning themselves to misery --"tying the knot"-- well, probably better to shoot real estate or products. I guess the other thing is I have been able to support myself through relatively more normal, "regular" work most of my career.... It would be tough to plunge into something even less certain.

The wedding market has crashed, TEB.  Everyone expects you to work for literally nothing while they host an open bar and serve prime rib to people they barely know.  For the amount of work you do, the money used to be good, now it's not so good.  I turn down more wedding work than I take anymore because noone wants to pay for the amount of work that's involved.  There are only so many upscale weddings each year.  Those are the ones that actually pay close to a reasonable rate.  Landing those is a dream but they normally come with some issue like a know nothing wedding planner who believes you work for her and she won't be in business in a year anyway or a bridezilla who wants you to make her look like Beyoncé when in fact she looks more like Herman Munster, and that's not even counting the alcoholic mother of the bride and bridesmaids from Hell.  Everyone else is doing their own decorating from what's on the shelf at Hobby Lobby and what they believe they saw on Pinterest.  Detail shots with some of those items takes a bit of imagination.  They're usually the same couples who tell you they reserved a "whole" $300 for photography but want 10 hours of coverage and get all offended when I bring them back to reality with a realistic quote for the "pictures they have to have."  (Insert eye roll and migraine here)  I forgot to mention dear old Uncle Bill who desires to impart all of his matchbook knowledge of photography on you while you're trying to create magic with relatives who honestly demonstrate what it's like to hate each other. 

If you ever want to experience it, message me and I'll bring you in as a second shooter sometime.  Over the last two decades plus, weddings have gone from beautiful, solemn events where everyone behaves themselves to the equivalent of shooting a hockey game with three teams on the ice at once and no period breaks.

Being a professional crack dealer probably has more benefits.

Camera Buff wrote:
So regardless of my ability (or not) and/or my attitude towards how I approach my photography assignments, would I be more credible as a photographer if I was to say that I am a professional, rather than an amateur, photographer?

Yes, for sure.

Camera Buff wrote:
So I personally would like to make it clear to anyone I photograph that I am not a professional photographer. If someone does the odd paid job, I don't believe this makes them a professional photographer, but if something happens on a paid assignment either at home, or out on location, and someone is injured then you may be in for a difficult time convincing the authorities otherwise.

.....*I have been shooting for 30+ years...I have never had any issues you mention, whether at home, studio or on location..!!
...*All is Well*...here in Cali..!!

Camera Buff wrote:
I totally agree with you about ... how your pictures ....speak for themselves ....!!

I viewed them all ... and they are all amazing!

All is good here, too! Thank you so much for your responses.

....*Thank You So much*....Really..!!
...
...(I will happily pay you later,
that $5.00 dollars I promised you,
for your positive thoughts....lol)