Skydancer Photos wrote:
No, but that doesn't stop racists, supremacists, ultra conservatives, and some misguided majority race members from believing they are somehow being oppressed by the repressed.

Wow.

Chuckarelei wrote:

Tomi Lahren is HOT!

True!

Amazing on the outside!!!   

udor wrote:
It's the second time I am coming across the mention of Roaming Millenial, aka Lauren Chen today.

So, I just looked her up, because I have heard those arguments before and lo and behold, she promotes ultra right wing talking points.

She just looks so pleasant and doesn't scream like Tomi Lahren, but both are ideologically aligned.

Not getting political, just mentioning where she is coming from.

Happy New Year, Julie! 

I agree that Lauren’s message is delivered without shouting.  It appears she is purely describing equality in her stance, not the extreme right, yet that’s just my take on that particular video, not her entire platform (which I haven’t researched one by one).

It would be callous to deny the history of any gender/race/sexuality/religion that has been oppressed. I empathize with that. I’m curious how many centuries must pass where the pain still exists. The pain of that time will be far removed yet of course, never erased from history. I’d figure pain is present wherever racism/inequality is.

Udor, Happy New Year!

Jules NYC wrote:
This was covered a few posts ago as opinion is discrimination is discrimination. I agree to that. Women can be discriminated against of any color, nationality, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

Thing is, when a woman is not promoted for the same job as a man with the same qualifications in the ol’ boys club or a white male is not hired because a quota has to be made with EEO (I’ve seen it in print), the term exists however unfair.

Being a minority of any kind is not a qualification, I concur.
Equality = no special treatment for anyone.

https://youtu.be/eEkXOfFw5IM

I was sort of with her until she stated

" Western Culture as a whole does treat everyone equally "

I had not heard of this Lauren Chen until reading your post so I spent some time looking into what she is about and what she stands for

Clearly a bright young woman . Very Opinionated and Articulate but  possessing a clear sense of Personal Entitlement . Eager to Impress the World with her views - but lacking the Wisdom of a Challenging Life lived

I know a few young Asian women like her ( and many who are quite the opposite )

Oh and I read somewhere that she was born in Canada ....lol 

and She is preaching her gospel to an American Audience via social media

What else is a young person  to do in this day and age when they have a degree in Poly Sci and have the beauty of a model ?

Garry k wrote:
I was sort of with her until she stated

"Western Culture as a whole does treat everyone equally"

I had not heard of this Lauren Chen until reading your post so I spent some time looking into what she is about and what she stands for

Clearly a bright young woman . Very Opinionated and Articulate but  possessing a clear sense of Personal Entitlement . Eager to Impress the World with her views - but lacking the Wisdom of a Challenging Life lived

I know a few young Asian women like her ( and many who are quite the opposite )

Oh and I read somewhere that she was born in Canada ....lol 

and She is preaching her gospel to an American Audience via social media

What else is one young person  to do in this day and age when they have a degree in Poly Sci and have the beauty of a model ?

Western Culture doesn’t treat everyone equally!  *edited in the right place: Eastern culture/Middle Eastern culture/oh boy with how women are treated.

Is it possible to see beyond her age, where she was born, her perceived beauty as to what her message is? If a woman not as pretty and older said the exact same thing, would she be taken more seriously? Would the message be bullshit if she were white? A man? Would the message be any different if it was any other group?

Isn’t supporting equality is treating a person, an idea with similar value?

It holds more weight if the narrative is coming from someone who truly experiences *insert whatever here*. That’s why they give sportscaster positions to former ballplayers, not retired ballerinas.

P.S. a lot of Pol Sci, Philosophy even art majors can turn into some real mouth pieces or drunken chefs. I’m still working on the latter.

Garry k wrote:
I was sort of with her until she stated

" Western Culture as a whole does treat everyone equally "



Clearly a bright young woman . Very Opinionated and Articulate but  possessing a clear sense of Personal Entitlement . Eager to Impress the World with her views - but lacking the Wisdom of a Challenging Life lived

Western Society--I agree with her but not everyone in western society.

Cannot that also be said of EVERY person stating an opinion ( other than the articulate part)? Non opinionated people don't post their opinions. Are not all young people lacking the wisdom of experience? Of course if they agree with us they are wise beyond their years.

Firing people in today's climate creates financial risks for corporations and that risk is amplified when the person is in a "protected Class".  Age discrimination is illegal but in a corporation I worked for at a meeting of over 600 managers only about 20 were over 40.By some coincidence 16 that I knew were all no longer with the company within 6 months.

A neighbor who worked  had a number of people he did annual reports on and one minority he repeated gave  reviews that mad them unpromotable and was told to give them a good review as they wanted to promote this person. They didn't question his judgement.

SCOTUS said in a college admissions case that race can be considered but it cannot be determinative. If a factor cannot be used to make a determination why even consider it.

LnN Studio wrote:
Western Society--I agree with her but not everyone in western society.

Cannot that also be said of EVERY person stating an opinion ( other than the articulate part)? Non opinionated people don't post their opinions. Are not all young people lacking the wisdom of experience? Of course if they agree with us they are wise beyond their years.

Firing people in today's climate creates financial risks for corporations and that risk is amplified when the person is in a "protected Class".  Age discrimination is illegal but in a corporation I worked for at a meeting of over 600 managers only about 20 were over 40.By some coincidence 16 that I knew were all no longer with the company within 6 months.

A neighbor who worked  had a number of people he did annual reports on and one minority he repeated gave  reviews that mad them unpromotable and was told to give them a good review as they wanted to promote this person. They didn't question his judgement.

SCOTUS said in a college admissions case that race can be considered but it cannot be determinative. If a factor cannot be used to make a determination why even consider it.

That’s why you never disclose your age to anyone at work. Random thought - the Queen of England is now 92. I watched a documentary on what she does every day and I bet she could outrun any ambitious younger person with her hands tied behind her back.

Skydancer Photos wrote:
No, but that doesn't stop racists, supremacists, ultra conservatives, and some misguided majority race members from believing they are somehow being oppressed by the repressed.

You my friend get quote of the year if not decade.

Jules NYC wrote:
I agree that Lauren’s message is delivered without shouting.  It appears she is purely describing equality in her stance, not the extreme right, yet that’s just my take on that particular video, not her entire platform (which I haven’t researched one by one).

I saw the classification on a public description of hers, like a bio type of thing.

Then I clicked on her channel and you find almost every video is a reflection of every ultra right wing, ultra conservative view and some of her talking points (including in the video you've linked to) are identical to racist thoughts as I have heard those arguments from racists I've talked to.

Funny enough (or not!) there is another Asian lady, Tila Tequila, who is also so extreme right wing, that she literally hangs out with Neo Nazis, does the Hitler salute and approves their messages. Never thought of her as too bright anyway...

What Fun Productions wrote:
It's interesting that no one in this thread has debated Lauren Chen's views.

Is it because her arguments are rooted in common sense and logic?

Victimhood is the counter argument to her opinion. That's a tough one to argue.

If we thought her views merited debate - I suppose we could . I don't feel the need to debate the views of every self promoting and opinionated person that comes along

However I will say that I agree with a few of the things she says and disagree strongly with the rest

Is there a particular opinion of hers that you are interested in debating ?

Jules NYC wrote:
Is it possible to see beyond her age, where she was born, her perceived beauty as to what her message is? If a woman not as pretty and older said the exact same thing, would she be taken more seriously?

Not by me - LIfe Experience provides the opportunity to gain wisdom but does not guarantee it

Jules NYC wrote:
I agree that Lauren’s message is delivered without shouting.  It appears she is purely describing equality in her stance, not the extreme right, yet that’s just my take on that particular video, not her entire platform (which I haven’t researched one by one).

It would be callous to deny the history of any gender/race/sexuality/religion that has been oppressed. I empathize with that. I’m curious how many centuries must pass where the pain still exists. The pain of that time will be far removed yet of course, never erased from history. I’d figure pain is present wherever racism/inequality is.

Udor, Happy New Year!

I have been considering this (bold) since you posted.  Less than 120 years after the civil war, I lived in a little tiny city in Florida.  People were justifying slavery to me, particularly the slavery of black people, with the Bible.  Seminole Indians were hated. Get rid of them.  Yankees weren't much better than (n word), church people would tell me. Or was it, we were worse.  I don't remember.  Having an education was a mark against you, too. 

These were the attitudes of the oppressors.   Those that had descended from those that had kept slaves, and the communities that supported slave owners.  I just looked up Florida and the Civil War, because I know nothing about it.  Florida was the 3rd state to succeed,  It had the smallest population of the succession states, half of the population were slaves.  They contributed 15,000 troops to the cause of oppressing people into continued slavery.

An oppressor population, after the war, then felt oppressed by the victor.  The population ought to be able to look at the foundation of their beliefs and realize that their ancestors had something wrong.  The foundation being both the Bible and the Constitution.  You would think that their experiences under reconstruction might have given some pause and people would have considered, my God, if this is what it feels like under the thumb of the Yankees, what was it like for the slaves?!  No sir,  Nooo sir.

A few minutes ago, I read this article:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/business … e42d728693

This isn't new.  This is why the Klan was able to form.  This is why the Nazis became a power.  This is why China can kill thousands of citizens in genocides today.   But what is important to us?  What is our most pressing problem?  A person that bears the weight of hundreds of years of oppression, among a population seething with anger, willing to bare it's teeth and slash at someone for their religion or skin color, our most pressing problem is that a few kids get into a school instead of the ones with the right color skin.

What Fun Productions wrote:
It's interesting that no one in this thread has debated Lauren Chen's views.

Is it because her arguments are rooted in common sense and logic?

Victimhood is the counter argument to her opinion. That's a tough one to argue.

Maybe because this thread isn't about her views.  Please feel free to start a thread; pick a topic and defend it. 
Maybe it isn't because no one wants to condemn her views- it is because no one wants to defend them that no one has brought up a specific ideology she supports.  But, please, feel free!

udor wrote:

I saw the classification on a public description of hers, like a bio type of thing.

Then I clicked on her channel and you find almost every video is a reflection of every ultra right wing, ultra conservative view and some of her talking points (including in the video you've linked to) are identical to racist thoughts as I have heard those arguments from racists I've talked to.

Funny enough (or not!) there is another Asian lady, Tila Tequila, who is also so extreme right wing, that she literally hangs out with Neo Nazis, does the Hitler salute and approves their messages. Never thought of her as too bright anyway...

Tila Tequila - lol. I didn’t realize she has a stance on anything considering the only platform I know of her is a drunk chick who thought it was so ‘racy’ (oooo) to be bi-sexual.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
I have been considering this (bold) since you posted.  Less than 120 years after the civi war, I lived in a little tiny city in Florida.  People were justifying slavery to me, particularly the slavery of black people, with the Bible.  Seminole Indians were hated. Get rid of them.  Yankees weren't much better than (n word), church people would tell me. Or was it, we were worse.  I don't remember.  Having an education was a mark against you, too. 

These were the attitudes of the oppressors.   Those that had descendant from those that had kept slaves, and the communities that support slave owners.  I just looked up Florida and the Civil War, because I know nothing about it.  Florida was the 3rd state to succeed,  It had the smallest population of the succession states, half of the population were slaves.  They contributed 15,000 troops to the cause of oppressing people into continued slavery.

An oppressor population, after the war, then felt oppressed by the victor.  The population ought to be able to look at the foundation of their beliefs and realize that their ancestors had something wrong.  The foundation being both the Bible and the Constitution.  You would think that their experiences under reconstruction might have given some pause and people would have considered, my God, if this is what it feels like under the thumb of the Yankees, what was it like for the slaves?!  No sir,  Nooo sir.

A few minutes ago, I read this article:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/business … e42d728693

This isn't new.  This is why the Klan was able to form.  This is why the Nazis became a power.  This is why China can kill thousands of citizens in genocides today.   But what is important to us?  What is our most pressing problem?  A person that bears the weight of hundreds of years of oppression, among a population seething with anger, willing to bare it's teeth and slash at someone for their religion or skin color, our most pressing problem is that a few kids get into a school instead of the ones with the right color skin.

I read the article you posted. I am SO glad I grew up without social media. I feel very fortunate that was the case. I always told myself if I ever received any noteriety for anything to make me a ‘public figure’ (pfff), I’d make sure my self-esteem was in check. The internet is generally dangerous, even for people just being plain mean.

Speaking of, look how the pros deflect in laughter.
https://youtu.be/w1AhrEhQ0mg

LnN Studio wrote:

Western Society--I agree with her but not everyone in western society.
.

Can You please explain this as it has me quite confused

LnN Studio wrote:
Western Society--I agree with her but not everyone in western society.

Cannot that also be said of EVERY person stating an opinion ( other than the articulate part)? Non opinionated people don't post their opinions. Are not all young people lacking the wisdom of experience? Of course if they agree with us they are wise beyond their years.

.

Most people have opinions on many things . Most People don't feel a need to start a Youtube Network to broadcast their opinions

Wisdom is gained from Living and striving for Awareness , Understanding and  Consciousness whether its in this life ( or perhaps even past lives )

Garry k wrote:
Most people have opinions on many things . Most People don't feel a need to start a Youtube Network to broadcast their opinions

Wisdom is gained from Living -whether its in this life ( or perhaps even past lives )

Not necessarily. I know people who've lived a long time, traveled extensively, and still don't have the wisdom that god gave carrots.

A Thousand Words  wrote:
Not necessarily. I know people who've lived a long time, traveled extensively, and still don't have the wisdom that god gave carrots.

sorry - see my edit as i missed something ( but you posted this as i was editing )

udor wrote:
every video is a reflection of every ultra right wing, ultra conservative view

Every time I read terms like "far right, far left, ultra this or that" seems like its an
attempt to attack and marginalize somebody's opinion.
Bigotry can take a lot of forms.

Skydancer Photos wrote:
No, but that doesn't stop racists, supremacists, ultra conservatives, and some misguided majority race members from believing they are somehow being repressed by the opressed.

Yep. People are now living 24/7 in a weird self-made Orwellian world where 100% pure bullshit is consumed as truth, and the very act of pointing that fact out is "offensive" and "discriminatory" to shiteaters. 

Don't hate the plate (of shit)!!!

nwprophoto wrote:

Every time I read terms like "far right, far left, ultra this or that" seems like its an
attempt to attack and marginalize somebody's opinion.
Bigotry can take a lot of forms.

If  You hate someone who hates others because of thier race, gender ,age etc - does that make You a hater ?

nwprophoto wrote:
Every time I read terms like "far right, far left, ultra this or that" seems like its an
attempt to attack and marginalize somebody's opinion.
Bigotry can take a lot of forms.

  Oh... so, speaking up against and pointing out bigotry, hate and racism is now bigotry in itself?

Okay... gotcha!

Here is a breakdown of the right side of the aisle:

-  Centrists (Conservatives, but still interested in human rights)   

-   Right/Conservative (pretty much the standard conservative, less caring about the general population = Ewww "socialism"  ) 

-  Right Wing (more protectionism, less gov, not liking people that speak englisch not good

-  Far right (tea party, fascist leaning ideology) 

-  Ultra Right wing (KKK, White Supremacists, 'Alt-Right' = Neo-Nazis, Outspoken Racists etc.)

The distinction is there because not every conservative is is a racist or white supremacist, but each one of them is on the far end of the conservative spectrum, and that is why such a distinction has to be made.

It's part of language and communication. Of course, if you live in a black/white world, then there is only either/or and no grey tones in between!

Garry k wrote:
If  You hate someone who hates others because of thier race, gender ,age etc - does that make You a hater ?

Lets say you have a group of people hates artichokes.
You have another group of people that hates people that hate artichokes.

You tell me....

nwprophoto wrote:

Lets say you have a group of people hates artichokes.
You have another group of people that hates people that hate artichokes.

You tell me....

Personally I dont feel it is healthy to carry hate towards anyone but

Lets say You see another group of People killing folks because of some percieved difference ( race , gender etc )

Could / Should that cause an Observer to be Angry ?

And would it not be natural for that anger to turn into hate over time ?

udor wrote:

Here is a breakdown of the right side of the aisle:

I would enjoy if you did a breakdown of the left side of the aisle.

nwprophoto wrote:

Lets say you have a group of people hates artichokes.
You have another group of people that hates people that hate artichokes.

You tell me....

False equivalence leading to flawed analogy, Humans are not artichokes.

I get that you are trying to say that intolerance of intolerance is just as bad as the original intolerance but that is not indicated by history. If we tolerate the original intolerance it grows and spreads.

Chuckarelei wrote:
Discrimination goes both ways. Actually it goes every way. Those in America who scream one way discrimination should get out a little more, go visit other parts of the world.

agree

ChristopherRoss wrote:
I'd struggle to label anything as "reverse discrimination". I feel like discrimination, regardless of it's source and target is discrimination but ... if your asking can one, historically oppressed group be discriminatory against a group that's traditionally been their oppressors? Sure, without a doubt.

As The Orville pointed out in season one, "a white dude can go to Compton as long as the black dude says it's cool". In that situation, Compton is a unique area where the traditional group roles have been reversed and because of that, blacks can freely discriminate against whites within their community.

A less Seth McFarden example would be if a white person walked onto a native reserve and asked for a haircut. Is it possible, in that example, for the natives to discriminate again them are refuse service? Even though, outside of that situation, the power roles could be reversed?

So I think, regardless of the unpopularity of the opinion, discrimination is consistent across most group identities.

well stated I agree.

空 wrote:
I know this is a discussion of discrimination, but I would like to add.
I would add that race really is a made up social construct that does not have a scientific basis.
There are a few sites that give good pro/con of issues such as www.procon.org.
on this issue is the site https://www.debate.org/opinions/is-race … -construct

I am not sure how to address or what language to use to address the ongoing discrimination of groups, but I do believe we should stop using the term 'race'.

Even though I am strongly on the side of race being a made up label.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/maga … ce-africa/

I am not unaware of that color of skin, language, sex, etc can be signals that bring out hatred and discrimination.

I believe discrimination is all about power, who controls the power is able to discriminate.

Those who state that (reverse) discrimination cannot be done because the is no power are being blind to how power can shift.

One place this is an issue is in how colleges measure their diversity, which in turn affects recruiting efforts, so does affect discrimination.   In addition to the politics of how race/ethnicity is defined is whether it's self identified or not.

African American and Native American both require one to not only be native to the Americas, but an American citizen.  The same is not true of being Latin or Hispanic or Pacific Islander for example.  If a college had a large international black population, changing from the term Black to African American greatly changed the stated diversity and inclusion demographics even though in reality nothing changed.  New Zealand is typically, for some bizarre reason omitted from the definition of Pacific Islander, but other Polynesian islands are not.  East Turkey and India are geographically a part of Asia, but people from those countries are much, much less likely to identify as Asian as those from SE Asia.  A few directions or comments from those measuring, can greatly influence how people self report and therefore change the satiated diversity. 

Colleges often measure diversity, simply by adding up certain demographic characteristics, (but of course not counting others).   A college that is 90% white, 1/3 conservative, 1/3 liberal and 1/3 independent with a variety of religions represented would be considered 10% diverse while a college that is 90% black and 95% liberal, with little religious diversity would be considered 90% diverse. Then of course, there's double counting.  Some colleges count people who fall into two categories twice, some don't.  In theory a college that is entirely black Muslims could be 200% diverse, depending on the demographics being counted.   

It seems to me that a college that is actively trying to recruit any demographic is discriminating, regardless of what that demographic is.  Again, whether or not such discrimination is justified is another issue, but discriminating and feeling it's justified isn't the same as not discriminating.  People who promote discrimination typically feel it's justified

Jules NYC wrote:

DMotion Picture Group wrote:
No and no.


I agree what this woman has to say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEkXOfFw5IM

As do I.   And she says it very well, clearly and logically.