Forums > Model Colloquy > shooting simply

Photographer

Dan OMell

Posts: 1377

Charlotte, North Carolina, US

"How to get your HOME shoot to VOGUE? | Female photographer NYC"
https://youtu.be/F5gU6-NWIuw

I'm interested to know your opinion on the above video by the talented Liza Kanaeva --
Imagine some photographers who would love approach, for example, say, the (elitist and/or paid-assignments-only) models to make a difference for own portfolio (not necessarily on MM).
Could this approach serve as some boost of confidence for such photographers, or a food for thought for such models, what do you think?

Ok, provided you're not in NYC, Rome, Paris or, at least, LA?
What should be in your portfolio to make the models wanting to work with you?
Covers of some reputable magazines, some easily recognizable brands, or just photos with a good potential?
Are all the models the necessarily good judges for the future photo session to invest their time?
What could be their default assumptions?

IMPORTANT: I'm thinking EXCLUSIVELY in terms of  collaboration, not paying shoots

May 23 20 12:41 pm Link

Photographer

Vector One Photography

Posts: 3630

Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US

Okay, you're screwed.  I'm trying to understand your convoluted posting. I think you want to up your game by shooting better models but you don't want to pay them.  And you want to know what you can do to attract the better models to work with you.....try paying them !

Why would an experienced model want to work for free ?  If they are experienced then they have plenty of images of themselves and don't need you. Unless you are famous and working with you is their dream. But in order to be famous you have to have produced some unbelievably good work. But in order to do unbelievably good work you need good models.

There is a chance you can find a new model that needs images and is just a natural in front of the camera and the camera loves her (him or it). I think you have a better chance of getting hit by lightning.

P.S. As far as the video goes... you can shoot good work anywhere, living room, bedroom, bathroom or the basement if you know what you are doing. And the girl needs to change her meds, she kept on moving her hair over the ear, behind the ear, over the other ear, behind the other ear..back and forth over and over again.  All she did is discover a website run by Vogue Italia that allows photographers to post if they like your work and one of her pictures got used a image of the day. It's not like she got the cover of a Vague magazine edition.

May 29 20 05:34 pm Link

Photographer

Dan OMell

Posts: 1377

Charlotte, North Carolina, US

Vector One Photography wrote:
Okay, you're screwed.  I'm trying to understand your convoluted posting. I think you want to up your game by shooting better models but you don't want to pay them.  And you want to know what you can do to attract the better models to work with you.....try paying them !

Why would an experienced model want to work for free ?  If they are experienced then they have plenty of images of themselves and don't need you.

maybe you just in rush and missed the point smile.

feel free to attack your idea of my personality, or the person in the video (who I personally do not know at all, and there are many like she, I took her as an example of many, and you by some reason consider her to be not of value as a photographer and just plain lucky - you're editing your initial comment multiple times, and so do I, to respond to those)  smile

still, the original question is not about saving some money, but about the correct direction of all your efforts, the best practice, not necessarily the universal receipt for everyone.

plus, why do you assume that everyone necessarily wants a model WITH A LOT OF EXPERIENCE? --
first, "a lot of experience" could also potentially include average, subpar, even NEGATIVE experience.
the topic is about ELITE models -- and among them there are a lot of totally NEW FACES.

then again, the NEW FACES could be also photographers (not only models), including ELITE photographers.

many more or less elite models published in the spreads (or even on the cover) of famous magazines get paid relatively small amount of money, sometimes less than a regular travel model for the day of work/. but you cannot BUY this elite models even if you pay them triple amount. it's not always about money .

who you're or want to be, it's up to you. a lot depends on you positioning your vision and following your ideas of effective self-improvement. if you think you can just buy that, I disagree. Your time has value. The experienced models are not necessarily your best teachers of photography.   
probably, you missed the point completely.

anyways, thanks for your honest opinion.

if you totally surrender your dreams and consider even attempt to look at the root of the problem as as a trivial "free ride", it's fine with me.

I hope to see more comments on this.
It would be interesting to look at this in retrospective

May 29 20 06:08 pm Link

Photographer

Tony Lawrence

Posts: 21429

Chicago, Illinois, US

A member has asked why would a experienced model pose for free.   Because they enjoy being photographed and you don't have to be well known or a fantastic shooter.   Dan I suggest you approach area modeling agencies as well as models and designers.   Facebook is a great place to start.   Models like to work with creative people.   While photographers who have paying clients and work with advertising agencies have a advantage over those without those things, finding solid talent doesn't always mean you have to pay and in fact agencies won't want you to pay their models in general.    A few ideas.   Find a few reliable MUA.   Many newer models won't know how to do their faces and having people to hook them up is a huge plus.

Hit local thrift stores and buy some dresses.   Things like gowns and wedding dresses can be great bargains.   Be willing
to travel to models as many may lack cars.   The woman in the video you linked is pretty which helps.   Here's a idea.   Ask past models why they chose to work with you.   Go to fashion shows.   I've found several great models at my former health club.   A few just walking around.   Keep some cards with you and a phone to show photos.   A last point.   Studies show people aren't in general motivated to do what they love by money.

May 29 20 08:19 pm Link

Photographer

Garry k

Posts: 29875

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Vector One Photography wrote:
There is a chance you can find a new model that needs images and is just a natural in front of the camera and the camera loves her (him or it). I think you have a better chance of getting hit by lightning.

.

Ok - So as many know - I am one of those Photographers that got hit by lighting in that i was an aspiring non commercial  fashion photographer who got very lucky and did a trade shoot with a ( then unknown 17 year old aspiring model by the name of ) Coco Rocha ( who i had met at a fashion show ) ....I started my MM portfolio here with photos of Coco from that shoot - and as she became famous more and more Internet based Models were interested in working with me
In the real world it was somewhat of a different story though ( and still is ) Most of the better aspiring and establshed Fashion Models are Agency signed - So it is not enough for your work to appeal to the individual Models but your work also needs to appeal to the Agencies as well .And just to get your foot in the door with them - You have to meet their expectations . If your work is good - a  lower tier agency might be fine with setting up a shoot with one of their models given your assurance that hair ,makeup and wardrobe ( plus a bit of cash to the Model be provided ) However a Higher tier Agency is likely to want a lot more - ie to review the work of your makeup artist. hairstylist and wardrobe stylist . as well as the location (  some cash for their Model as well ) And of course these agencies would prefer you shoot high end fashion with their Models ( no Glam please )  All this and  they may only offer you one of their New Faces to start with ( and that New Face may not have developed many skills as a Model yet )

No disrespect to the Photographer in that Video as She seems very serious and committed to her craft - but I dont think she has offered a real formula to get ahead as a Fashion Photographer  ( maybe as a portrait photographer though ) . And her Model ( although pretty ) does not strike me as Fashion Model material

Shooting Simply is just not enough in this day and age - unless You are shooting Extraordinary Beauty and have a highly developed sense of aesthetic

May 29 20 11:19 pm Link

Photographer

FIFTYONE PHOTOGRAPHY

Posts: 5703

Uniontown, Pennsylvania, US

Dan OMell wrote:
Could this approach serve as some boost of confidence for such photographers, or a food for thought for such models, what do you think?

Projects can run smoother 99% of the time when working with an experienced Model, Dancers also.  They possess poise and confidence but the Photographer still needs to deliver to benefit.

Working with experience or even a popular figure on social media can attract more Models with experience.  Paying $$$ doesn't always equate to a better Model but it does guarantee that they just might show up.  lol

2c

May 30 20 03:38 am Link

Photographer

Garry k

Posts: 29875

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Dan OMell wrote:
plus, why do you assume that everyone necessarily wants a model WITH A LOT OF EXPERIENCE? --
first, "a lot of experience" could also potentially include average, subpar, even NEGATIVE experience.
the topic is about ELITE models -- and among them there are a lot of totally NEW FACES.

Experience is over rated ( unless we are talking about a Supermodel )

I would much rather prefer a New Face ( with a Great Look and Stats ) who knows the basics of posing and can take some direction

May 30 20 08:44 am Link

Photographer

Jorge Kreimer

Posts: 3670

Los Angeles, California, US

Dan OMell wrote:
What should be in your portfolio to make the models wanting to work with you?

IMPORTANT: I'm thinking EXCLUSIVELY in terms of  collaboration, not paying shoots

A few things work for me:

1. Quality of work/portfolio. Whether nude, beauty or editorial, the work must be not only good, but also have a unique quality to it.
A style that is hard to duplicate or easily recognizable, makes your work exclusive.

2. An impeccable reputation: Good references are very important.

3. On MM I put as much information as possible about me in my profile page including some sort of publication/exhibition resume they can see. I include links so they know I'm not bullshitting them.

4. Quality of work again. Whoever likes what you are doing will want to work with you

5. A respectful and professional approach in your communications. Include link to your website.

May 30 20 08:54 am Link

Photographer

Jorge Kreimer

Posts: 3670

Los Angeles, California, US

Garry k wrote:
Experience is over rated ( unless we are talking about a Supermodel )

I would much rather prefer a New Face ( with a Great Look and Stats ) who knows the basics of posing and can take some direction

I personally don't care much about experience. Photographers can work just as well with both amateur and professionals if they know what they are doing.

May 30 20 08:57 am Link

Photographer

Garry k

Posts: 29875

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Dan OMell wrote:
many more or less elite models published in the spreads (or even on the cover) of famous magazines get paid relatively small amount of money, sometimes less than a regular travel model for the day of work/. but you cannot BUY this elite models even if you pay them triple amount. it's not always about money .

Top Fashion Models generally do some High Paying Commercial Advertising Work for Fashion Brands. Accessory Brands. Luxury Brands .also Hair .Makeup or Perfume Brands . Big Brands pay big Bucks - sometimes into the millions for a Model to represent them  .... Here is the Model l referred to earlier ( Coco ) doing a Perfume ad  for YSL


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZzlOqKAMf0


Top Fashion Models also do Magazine Editorials and Cover work ( which pays a lot less ) Reasons for doing such include building viewer recognition and retaining it

Top Fashion Models also do Photoshoots for their Social Media ( which may or may not be paid )

May 30 20 09:25 am Link

Photographer

Garry k

Posts: 29875

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Vector One Photography wrote:
Why would an experienced model want to work for free ?  If they are experienced then they have plenty of images of themselves and don't need you. Unless you are famous and working with you is their dream. But in order to be famous you have to have produced some unbelievably good work. But in order to do unbelievably good work you need good models.

Sometimes a Model and a Photographer enjoy each others company and the creative process they are involved in
And $ really isnt a factor .....After first meeting this Model at a local fashion show I went on to do  approx 15 creative shoots with this her over a 10 year period - and credit Her for helping me become the Photographer I am today

https://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/080319/10/47e1293a17c6c.jpg

May 30 20 09:59 am Link

Photographer

Garry k

Posts: 29875

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Getting back to one of the OPs original questions

What should be in your portfolio to make models want to shoot with You ?


Sound Photography of other models that a model can identify with , in a genre that the model seeks to shoot in ....

for a start

anything more than that should increase the models interest in shooting with you

May 30 20 04:14 pm Link

Photographer

Dan OMell

Posts: 1377

Charlotte, North Carolina, US

thanks a lot for the interesting and useful comments.
for some the key is the boost of confidence, for others the material compensation, or even all of above plus a bit of luck.
and there is no some general receipt for universal success as expected.

May 31 20 04:38 am Link