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Advice: can I continue nude modeling this way?
First of all, I’m about to come across as very naive, & well, I am! I started modeling almost a decade ago before social media like instagram was a thing. I took a break for grad school & recently jumped back into nude modeling (my preferred genre.) I instantly felt so much happier getting back to something I love to do. That is, until I saw shots of me posted on instagram. In the past, I knew that my photos were either going to be posted on MM, photographer’s websites/personal portfolios, or sold to private collectors/magazines/etc. I was totally comfortable with that & was able to do work I love while still being mostly private about it. Seeing those photos on instagram made me realize the game has changed, & unfortunately I feel extremely uncomfortable. I wish that I could fully embrace anyone I know on instagram possibly seeing these photos, but the thought makes me sick. To be honest, I just don’t want to have those conversations. I don’t want to explain to people I love that just won’t understand. I feel sad that I might have to abandon something I love to avoid having nudes all over a major social media platform. So my question is: Would it be possible to ask photographers to not post photos to major social media networks (namely, Facebook & instagram)? Have it a part of the release that all other avenues are fine, just not major platforms? I’m ready to turn down gigs & only work with photographers that are willing to meet my terms. But, do most photographers post nudes to instagram now? Is there no way around this? Just want to know how to move forward. Thanks for any & all honest advice!! May 31 20 02:03 pm Link I have a release that clearly spells out what I or the model can and cannot do with the images we create. However, I was recently asked by a model I have worked with numerous to remove any nude/implied/topless/questionable images posted on social media due to her new employer. I was only too happy to remove any and all images that could cause her professional difficulty. Going forward, the now revised release will be even more clear about what can and cannot be posted and where and by whom. The last thing I want is to cause any difficulty, professional or personal, for any models I work with. Asking for a clause in your agreement/release/contract to protect you is a good idea, and I wish you the best in your future endeavors. May 31 20 03:15 pm Link Its quite appropriate for a Model to ask a Photographers not to display photos on social media or anywhere else . And the Photographer can then decide if that works for them or not I am not really a Photographer of Nudes but I do I know of Models who will only shoot Nudes for private collections ...and that seems to work ok for certain Photographers I dont know how many of those types of Photographers are out there though Edit If You make such an arrangement with a Photographer - best to get it clearly spelled out in the Model Release I have a couple of Model friends who have been tricked by unscrupulous photographers into doing what they thought were private nudes - only to later see them displayed in public May 31 20 03:17 pm Link It's not the photographers you'll have to worry about if you work out an agreement that excludes one or two platforms. It's those who steal the photographers work and violate his / her copyright that will post it anywhere they feel inclined. If you don't want an image you appear in to be plastered across the internet the only sure way is to not be in it. There are other types of artistic nude modeling, say posing for an artist to paint you and artist classes. I've known models who did that and built up a decent client list of people to work with and didn't bother with photography modeling. There might be photographers willing to work with you and not publish anything but just use it as practice. I have some models who I work with who are willing and enjoy shooting nude but I don't publish the images. We shoot a good bit of clothed work which I do publish. You could also do what some other models have done and move to behind the camera and become a photographer. That's fun too. May 31 20 04:42 pm Link Of course you can and many models in the model release exclude nudes, certain types of nudes and certain venues for display . Many also model under a alias and have the releases specify images can only be credited under that name. They also have a private Instagram for their modeling photos under that alias, Nice portfolio BTW May 31 20 04:48 pm Link I would suggest that your view of the world has changed more than the world itself. A photo posted on the internet is not secure and never has been. I remember some years back an MM photographer thought he had come up with a foolproof way to make it impossible to steal any of the photos on his website and issued a challenge. Less than 3 minutes later I responded, with a link to one of his images in my port. As soon as he saw it, I deleted it. I didn't want it, was just responding to the challenge. It was that easy. Bear in mind that last year in September 50 million plus accounts were hacked on Facebook. MM may not have the resources to even know if anything of the sort has happened. As stated above, if you don't want your nude photos circulated on the internet the only safe thing is to not post them. Consider working for painters and other artists. This may allow you to enjoy your creative role while maintaining anonymity. We'll be sorry to see you go but you have to do what is best for you and yours. Cheers, SD May 31 20 05:16 pm Link Thank you all so much for your responses!! They have been so helpful & encouraging. I no longer feel depressed about giving up (for the second time!) something that brings excitement & creativity into my life. I understand completely that images on the internet are not secure. However, to me there is a difference between someone stumbling upon a nude of me when they were actively looking for nudes vs accidentally being tagged in a nude on social media & my 15-year-old sister seeing it!! I’m not ashamed of any work I do, however Instagram is a different beast & definitely awkward to have nudes on when there are children that can easily search the wrong hashtag. Haha I’m definitely sounding old but that’s just how I feel! Thanks again for the advice!!!! 💜 May 31 20 06:20 pm Link Kaela Kino wrote: Every situation is different. You need to do what you feel you need to do. May 31 20 06:29 pm Link Every situation is different. You need to do what you feel you need to do. I’ve talked to several groups but they aren’t meeting right now during the pandemic. Anyway, I like modeling for photographers! May 31 20 07:48 pm Link Kaela Kino wrote: Every situation is different. You need to do what you feel you need to do. I’ve talked to several groups but they aren’t meeting right now during the pandemic. Anyway, I like modeling for photographers! You could still do body scapes and all sorts of other types of photography including masks or disguises. May 31 20 08:52 pm Link Kaela Kino wrote: To make a long story short, Yes. Have the terms spelled out in any release and stick to Your guns. Try using an alias but keep in mind that once a nude image is taken it's out there. Jun 01 20 02:35 am Link I agree with everything that has been said. Having modelled for 33+ years, I have always made certain where the photographers intended to post any photos of me. I don't use (or like or approve of) social media myself, and don't want anyone directly posting photos of me in such places. But there's absolutely nothing you can do to keep people from coming onto Model Mayhem, or a photographer's personal website, and stealing your photos then doing whatever they want to with them. I know for certain this has happened with some of my photos, since one photographer told me he had seen a number of them on various websites and I know the people who took those photos didn't put them there. One distinct advantage to posing naked for art classes or artists in general is that art, whether a drawing or painting or sculpture, is nearly always more deniable if someone should see it and say that it looks like you. Unless your name was associated with it, there's no way for them to be certain who the model was. I have always used a stage name and not my real name when modelling, ever since the start. Given the number of students in the art classes and artists attending the figure drawing groups I've posed for over the years, there have to be thousands of resulting drawings and paintings of me floating around out there somewhere. So it's not a matter of if you will be recognized, but when and by whom. I have been recognized in public places many times over the years and asked if I were an art model by people who had seen some of those drawings and paintings in gallery displays, college student art shows, or in other various and legitimate places that art would be expected to be displayed where the public could see it. My point is that even with artwork, there's no hiding, and eventually someone is going to see the art and recognize you. When asked by a stranger, I always admit that I was the model, and none of them have ever said anything negative at all, I typically get nice compliments and we might talk about what it's like to pose naked for a few minutes but that's the end of it. Eventually that will happen, whether it's a photo or artwork that someone sees, and you will hear about it. One way to assure yourself that family members won't be shocked is for you to tell them what you do, and show them examples of artistic figurative work which is tastefully done. Your 15 year old sister is definitely old enough for you to talk to about your love of modelling as she's certain to find out someday, and being prepared with the right information is perfect should someone she knows be the one to tell her. The only person I never told was my father, as he wouldn't have understood, but my brothers, sisters, and close friends and neighbors all knew that I was modelling and have been supportive. Jun 01 20 05:57 am Link You are not alone in facing this dilemma . . . You enjoy modeling nude . . . but you have reasons to not be recognized in the photos. There is no way that anyone can guarantee that your images will not be placed on the internet where your family and others will not see them. That's just one of the facts of life these days. Many of the models I've worked with have the same problem. The solution appears to be changing the way you look when you model nude. I've looked at your portfolio and in all your lovely photos, you appear to be the same woman . . . natural, relaxed, graceful. All good traits to have. And, I bet if I met you in person, I imagine you would look exactly like your photos. Therein lies the problem. If you wish to continue modeling nude in the future, you might consider using a 'stage name' and changing your look entirely. Wigs of a different hair color are very effective. Glamorous makeup can change your face entirely. Even your own mother won't recognize you (assuming that you don't wear glamour makeup all the time and your family is used to you that way). When you meet a Playboy Playmate sporting her everyday look, you'd never suspect she's the same person that you see in the magazine. You'd be surprised how many models when asked if the girl in the magazine is her, will answer: "Wow, she's pretty, I kinda see the resemblance, but I could never really look like that". And the person asking the question, accepts that as fact. You've been away from the business for a while and say miss modeling. That doesn't have to mean the end of your nude modeling experiences. You might try re-inventing your image with a new and different look. Only use that new look for shooting nudes (and don't let family see you like that). The chances of your sister/mother/friends seeing your photos and thinking it's you are greatly diminished. Jun 01 20 09:40 am Link Kaela Kino wrote: I personally do it only for the artistic outlet of creating lovely images, and nothing more. I do not showcase my images anywhere other than here, and don't even have that many up. I have no personal need to put the images on any social media and have always come to an agreement with models on what would/would not happen with images. Obviously, all photographers are different. Some want to make a living at this and that's why they may post on social media. I guess that your best bet may be to only work with photographers who have the same vision for use that you do. While the image is their creation and they have rights to it, I understand your wishes to have some control over your image as well. Jun 01 20 11:29 am Link What Ken Marcus said... Don't know if that's if your real name. But it is very common for models to have a "professional" name, along with associated social media accounts for modeling only, which are entirely separate from their personal identities and accounts. You don't even need to give out your real name or private life details, except for signing contracts, etc. Ask photographers to ONLY credit you with your professional name... only add professional friends or followers to your professional accounts, etc. Jun 01 20 12:46 pm Link Thank you so much everyone!! Your responses mean a lot to me & I’ll continue to check this thread. So far so good: most the photographers I’ve worked with since I started modeling again have been very understanding when I reached out to them about my concern, & very supportive with their advice! I’ve only cancelled one upcoming shoot because the photographer was not willing to NOT post nudes/implieds to social media, so we have cancelled the shoot with no hard feelings. Everyone else I’m scheduled to work with has sent me an edited copy of their release with my terms clearly spelled out. I’m humbled & so so happy that this is going well so far! Also, the photographer who posted the photo on Instagram in the first place has graciously removed it, & they still want to work with me again! I feel very respected & so much better than before. As for my family... they already know that I modeled nude in the past. My mom reacted very poorly, but I’ve always disappointed her somehow lol. My dad is amazing & just asked if I was safe & happy & when I said yes just said, “then that’s cool, kid!” My little sister I’m mainly concerned about because she doesn’t know, & lives with my mom right now so if she saw my photos it could spark another family feud & period of silence between my mom & I. She “disowned” me aka didn’t speak to me at all for a year in high school when I was living with my dad & is known for cutting people out of her life whenever she feels like it. I just want to keep the peace with my family if I can! And unfortunately, for dysfunctional families that often means just not talking about certain things. Edit: For those concerned, Kaela Kino is indeed a stage name  Jun 01 20 04:15 pm Link I am as a photographer the same man I am as a man w/o a camera. I really respect the nude models... unless I'm going for publication (which I haven't done in years ) I don't do model releases. I own the copyright and yes I could be a dick, but then I wouldn't have any models. That's just not me. I'm an old fart. I believe in the power of a handshake and a verbal agreement. A good many of the models I've worked with are still my friends, I've helped raise their babies and done family shoots for them. I always provide links to the few online portfolios I'll be posting on. I have one of those models (a very popular one) that is a friend that does both nude and non-nude work and keeps them separated using 2 names. Throughout the years I've run across her nude work with the wrong name credited. I'll contact her and contact the photog and every time the photog has changed the credit name, gladly and with sincere apologies. That's what I like about this semi-organized anarchic collective - the cooperators, the ones that have others' backs, the ones helping others grow... the friendships and the beauty created. The art! What I don't like about it are the dicks, the asshats that lack respect and civility and apparently have yet to grow up. Cooperation isn't rocket science and respecting others should be a given. Jun 01 20 08:56 pm Link I created a release specifically for the concerns of one model. We emailed it back and forth until everything was cool. I will never put her on MM, or social media, which I don't use anyway. I never will. I can paint her until my heart is content, and if I don't get an exact likeness, that is a plus. I can do art prints of photos, and there is an allowance for art books and biographies. I think if I had something that I thought was really good, I would check in with her first, out of respect. Most of my models are friends. No way am I putting nudes of them anywhere. The rest come from MM. But my thing is painting, so I understand photographers having a different feeling about taking shots and not being able to use them. I paint entirely for my own pleasure. Unless I have an eye popping offer to sell a painting, at this time, they can stay here. If you have never posed for an artist, it is different. It is harder. Much harder. I would understand why you prefer to pose for photographers. You have some really good pieces in your portfolio. Good art- well composed and lit. The model is well positioned and attractive (though I put less emphasis on the model's looks than other people may.) It would be a shame for you to quit. I assume you completed your graduate degree or soon will, and that will be your livelihood. If you are doing the modeling because you love to do it, then just be picky about who you work with. Not only do you get the agreement in writing, but be careful about the ethics of the people you work with. Make sure they know you will kick their ass from one end of the courthouse to the other with really good lawyers if they should ever disregard the agreement. Of course, you can be more diplomatic than me. If you ever pose for a lover, get a release for those shoots as well. Not every use requires a release so always get a release that restricts the use. Lovers are notoriously bad about taking liberties. You got good advice about creating different looks that are less likely to be unquestionably you. Jun 02 20 03:56 pm Link Hunter GWPB wrote: Like a lot of millennials, I’m actually not using my degree, haha! I make a lot more money doing other things. I may get back into my field eventually, but for now I’m young & just doing what I want to do Jun 02 20 07:47 pm Link Hi I'm in Jamaica but I do occasionally shoot art nudes with models who are willing to. I only with her permission share on sites where nudes are allowed and appreciated as artwork. I started an ig private account to share with fellow photograpphers and models who appreciate them So I don't share nudes openly like that. You must have a claer understanding with the photographer and you have the right to decide where they are posted. If you ever come to Jamaica look me up would be honoured to work with you. Jun 06 20 09:02 am Link Kaela Kino wrote: Jun 06 20 10:36 am Link Yes absolutely. Also both FB and Instagram censor nudity as well as giving others users the ability to anonymously tag posts that violate these standards. Artists and Art Critics have posted famous nudes from Art History and have had their posts removed , they say "How can you censor a Michelangelo!?"and both FB and Instagram do without compunction. Jun 06 20 10:40 am Link Kaela Kino wrote: An agreement like that is definitely doable and not out of the question, but it makes me question if that's the actual case in this instance. Jun 11 20 08:36 am Link I want to be and I am totally supportive of nude models and their concerns and I think we as a community should do everything possible to accommodate each other and their needs and limitations. However, I think it is terminally naive to do nude photography in the hopes of the images not being widely disseminated on the net. The net is a technology no model or photographer or agency can control and once an image is posted ANYWHERE it is available EVERYWHERE, especially if you are a little bit more sophisticated with dedicated image searches that can take a part of an image and fine any other image on the net that matches it. To have nude images clearly available on MM and then to complain about not wanting them on IG? That is not real. Unfortunately, it's a case of all or nothing. To not have nude images you would have to not produce any more images and do something drastic to "run away from your old self" and not face the reality that previously produced images will always be out there and ready to pop up at any moment. As for photographers producing images ONLY for their private portfolios? Well, they all use cloud backup storage and those images are fully available to hackers and unscrupulous and disgruntled Google workers that have stolen content and released it. Hard-drives and laptops get lost on trains and buses. Two of my friends died and their entire computers went on yard sales and thousands upon thousands of nude images found a new owner who could do whatever he/she wanted with them. Delete or release. Photographers have accidentally sent wrong images to the wrong model just because they had similar first names. Computers get hacked all the time. I think the bottom line is understanding something that one has to deal with but has NO control over whatsoever. I don't believe any photographer or model is fully in control of where their images end up and should be prepared for the reality of the images being widely disseminated around the entire world. Short of that, one is in denial and constantly in line for a rude awakening. I am sorry it sounds rough but such is reality. It's the world we live in, and we are powerless to change it, model release with limitations or not. Wishing you luck and you should be happy that you have created some awesome images already and enjoyed the process. Jun 11 20 04:48 pm Link Nude photos are not allowed on ig. Jun 12 20 08:48 am Link I shoot very modern non-erotic art nudes and usually post some on Facebook and IG but my primary goal is to have works that hang in galleries and art festivals. I've had a a model who ask that her photos never be posted digitally anyplace and I honored that request. After she saw the piece, she brought her family to a gallery opening where it was displayed. Still not posted digitally. I can't be the only photographer where the primary goal is not digital display and I imagine others would be just as happy not to show nude images from a particular shoot. Jun 12 20 04:31 pm Link You have a passion and this is rare! Don't worry too much about what other people think not even your mother who seem to be part of your problem .. You are 27 years old! remember you cannot please every body with the decisions you are making.... Regarding you younger sister...People tend to underestimate young people! just talk to her about the art you are creating in collaboration with photographers and on occasions requiring some nudity! For centuries nudity, male and female, has been a source of inspiration in all visual arts. The first time I saw a nude woman was a model in an art school in Paris and I was 17 years old, that was 60 years ago!! Jun 12 20 08:00 pm Link KAELA KINO's profile says she is on another break from modelling for the foreseeable future. Jun 13 20 08:15 am Link You can negotiate any limits to usage that you want, but you need to disclose those limits before booking. Sep 19 20 05:27 pm Link Lots of good observations above. Unfortunately , you've removfed your pictures from MM so I don't know what your normal work looks like but that doesn't matter allthat much--the problem remains the sam whether the work is the mosterotic or the most gentile art nudes. The problem lies with the observer, not you and there is very little you can do about it. Please take a look at the "Anonymous Nudes" folder in my portfolio. This is how I deal with this problemfor those models who want to be both nude and discrete--I would think that most photographers would be happy to do the same, at least if you are shooting for trade. If you're shooting for pay, you only have the degree of control spelled out in your written agreement withthe photographer. Remember, it's your face, it's your body, so it's your decision--always! All IMHO as always, of course. Sep 20 20 05:56 am Link Unfortunately, as has been noted, NOTHING on the Internet is really private. For example, Safari analytic shows that on THIS PAGE ALONE, 8 trackers have been identified - and repelled. One suggestion: Always use a stage name. That will at least prevent searches on your real name returning pics you don't want displayed. Other than that, make your wishes known to any prospective photographer BEFORE showing up. Oct 05 20 11:13 am Link It will limit the people wanting to work with you by a lot. You may be able to do something fulfilling if you like the posing aspect. There are a lot of talented people that would not work with these restrictions. Oct 05 20 11:54 am Link Something to be aware of is that photographers like myself can earnestly follow agreed to restrictions of where and in what context an image is posted in. I do not want my art nudes posted on a fetish or adult entertainment site. However many users on Instagram, Tumblr and other social media platforms do not respect copyright and will copy and post without permission or even crediting the artist holding the copyright. The web and social media have made the world much smaller. In the past one could model for nudes and the photographer could indeed control the availability and display of the images. Even though I can sue someone who steals my images online, once a digital image is out there, it’s out there. First off I would suggest having an in-depth frank conversation with potential photographers and also review their other nude work. Do are you comfortable being in the images they have previously shot? See where the photographer had displayed their images before and in what context. Are you comfortable with that? If there are specific limitations you have such as no nipples, no “pink” or such, have those restrictions written into the release. If you are uncomfortable on how third parties may copy and display your nude image without permission, don’t agree to do nudes. IF after all of this you do agree to model nude, let go and be at peace with the internet and that once your images are out there, no one will have absolute control of them. Oct 07 20 12:54 pm Link Oct 07 20 02:43 pm Link A model can ask a photographer for whatever condition she wants to impose on the use of the image, PRIOR to the shoot. A photographer can then decide if they are conditions he/she is willing to accept. Asking for conditions to be imposed years after the shoot has taken place is also fine, but be prepared if the other person says, "No" to these new conditions. As Judge Judy has often pointed out in cases before her, if there's a written contract, nothing outside the boundaries of the pages matter. If there's a change to the agreement, it has to take the same form as the original agreement. So a verbal agreement doesn't change a prior written agreement. You have to get any changes in writing. Oct 08 20 07:43 am Link I find it funny that her profile has been down for a long time now and people are still offering advice. I think she’s made her decision, guys. Oct 08 20 01:58 pm Link BlushResponse Studio wrote: True, but there are literally thousands of other models, probably hundreds who are members here and possibly even a few who face the same problem and who might benefit from the comments and observations of those who reply. It's one of the benefits of being a part of a community such as MM. Oct 10 20 07:16 pm Link Focuspuller wrote: I don't think using a stage name provides much long term protection. Facial recognition, and image recognition are reaching the point where Google will be able to identify the person in the photo from their appearance. Oct 13 20 05:49 am Link Kaela Kino wrote: Before booking ask to see their model release and insist on language you yourself can review in advance that restricts which and what images are displayed and in what forums are they displayed. First off the photographer is signing a contract agreeing to the restriction. Secondly discussing this langiuage in advance gives both of you an opportunity to be on the same page. If for some business reason that photographer needs to post photos on Instagram or FB, it is better they book a model who is OK with that and that you shoot with someone who can comfortably agree to those restrictions. Dec 07 20 03:15 pm Link Jon Winkleman Photo wrote: A model release generally does not involve the photographer agreeing to anything, except perhaps compensation of some sort. Dec 07 20 05:05 pm Link |
