All Yours Photography wrote:
If there seems to be ambiguity between their stated limits and their portfolio, I will generally ask an open question, such as "Please tell me about your comfort level".

It's useless to ask a third person why someone does what they do.

Ask the model in question for clarification but don't attempt to get into a deep analysis of her motives.

Laveen Photo wrote:
Models who do not shoot nudes but post nude photos

Also, some models say that they shoot nudes but do not post any nude photos.

It makes no sense for me to ask anyone other than THAT MODEL why she does what she does.

jazzy_tiffie wrote:
I have a book of work that spans almost 20 years. I did a lot of nude or implied in years past and now not available to do so. I do not think it would be a full accurate profile to share my "art" and just delete that part of my life. I still love fine art, I may do so in the future; but have to be honest in what I am available to do NOW

I just saw your profile and I can't believe how beautiful you are!! Please message me your Instagram, I want to follow you.

Laveen Photo wrote:
Thanks all, the answers do add some perspective. I guess I am one that likes clear communication of parameters, but I am probably too old-school. I also realize that I probably have a different take on the definition of implied nudes. To me if a model is nude but covers up or does not expose to the camera vital areas of her anatomy that is still nude. To me implied nude is where you compose a shot of a model who is covered but make it look like she could be nude (I probably tend to take things a bit to literally). For example, I know of a photographer who has done a series of shots with models in short shorts and tube tops sitting with their knees up. You see no clothing (which is there). To me that is a truly implied nude. That said I recognize that  cover-ups are generally referred to as implied.

Thanks again.

Technically, many of the photos you see are "demure nudes" where the model is nude but posed so that nipples and labia are not seen by the camera.  At least on MM, these get lumped under the category of Implied nudes in general conversation.

John Jebbia  wrote:
Just an FYI, the Photographer in the OP was killed in a car accident back in January 2021.

Sorry to hear that

Laveen Photo wrote:
Something that has puzzled me for some time is that I will frequently see model profiles where the model says she does not shoot nudes; however, when you go to the portfolio there will be nudes. Probably most frequently they will be cover-ups or maybe only show the model from the back. I find it confusing when the portfolio is not consistent with the "don't shoot nudes." I would love to get an understanding of this seeming contradiction.  Personally, I do not bring up the topic of shooting nudes until I have at least shot once with a model and then I may never bring up the subject. Ultimately I wonder if it would be inappropriate in that type of situation to bring up the subject with the model. I would appreciate any thoughts on this topic.

Honesty and direct communication is difficult for a lot of people, especially when it comes to nudity (or sex).  Our society creates some very fucked up thinking on those subjects, which creates an attitude that you can't be open or honest about what you really do versus the image you want to project. 

Slut shaming is a real thing models have to deal with.  So are unwanted advances.  And a host of other issues.

On this platform many models check 'no' on 'shoots nudes' because they don't want to show up in searches for nude models.   Maybe they used to shoot nudes, but don't any more.  Maybe they are selective about who they'll shoot nudes with. 

At the end of the day, they don't owe you an explanation why they have nude work posted but aren't interested in shooting nudes with every random GWC who comes along.

LadyOrias wrote:
i can only speak on generalities as i dont speak for all models,  but......

if a woman's bio says they dont shoot nudes but you see them its usually because of one of these reasons.....
1) the nude pics are old and theyre no longer comfortable with their body
2)  the woman is in a relationship that precludes her from appearing that vulnerable anymore
3) they dont want random solicitations exclusively for nude work and would rather that type of dynamic evolve though mutual understanding after working together enough times
4) theyre pivoting their focus to change their image and define a clear new direction for a career shift, etc.
5) they only do nudes under specific situations like if its paid or for a published photographer (which they should clarify)
6) The want nudity to be their artistic choice in the moment and work together on ideas that they may be open to evolving when theyre moved by the moment
7) they want to be the one to solicit photographers for nude work to ensure theyre portrayed in a style that they find classy
8) they dont want to be lumped into the nude model pool which can be seen derogatorily by some
9) they change their limits like they change their underwear and theres no hope of ever making sense of things
10) banana banana 9 is not an even number

in general if you see it,  they shouldnt be offended when you seek clarification, but you shouldnt only be contacting them for something they blatantly say they dont do. that just sounds creepy.  if you're interested in working with them anyway, then lead with that then later just politely inquire which of their listed limits or portfolio are more updated because you were confused

Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
Or . . .  I love to shoot nudes, but only with photographers that I want to shoot nudes with.

100% this. Just because a model is open to shooting nudes doesn't mean s/he is open to shooting it with EVERYONE.  Some models don't check it off as a category or will say they don't because they want to weed out the creepers that are ONLY looking for nudes.

Jay Kilgore wrote:

100% this. Just because a model is open to shooting nudes doesn't mean s/he is open to shooting it with EVERYONE.  Some models don't check it off as a category or will say they don't because they want to weed out the creepers that are ONLY looking for nudes.

I only shoot nudes. Does that make me a "creeper" by default?

jazzy_tiffie wrote:
I have a book of work that spans almost 20 years. I did a lot of nude or implied in years past and now not available to do so. I do not think it would be a full accurate profile to share my "art" and just delete that part of my life. I still love fine art, I may do so in the future; but have to be honest in what I am available to do NOW

Thank you for stating this Jazzy! This is perfectly stated. I am also a 20 year veteran model. From 2005-2017 I toured extensively as an art nude model. I even shot a lot fetish and glamour nude work too. However, in 2020 my limits changed. What I am booking changed. A lot has changed with my career.

I noticed some smart a$$ added my nude images on his list of 'does not shoot nude'. I was wondering what that was all about? Some photographers seem really thin skinned when a model is no longer is available for nudes. It's no offense. However, as an older model nearly 40, I have my personal reasons I no longer shoot nudes. Honestly, I am just a different and older woman now. People change and careers change. Why should a model be expected to shoot the same styles she shot at 20 in her 40's? She has physically changed and the type of bookings for older models tend to be different. Models change, evolve and grow. Why should a style she shot in her past be expected decades later? Any other career path, people seem to accept and expect people change. But in modeling, photographers seem bothered by it.

I have been really struggling to convey this change on my profile recently. I keep coming back to re-edit my profile. I am still unsure how to explain the change?

Samantha Grace wrote:
Thank you for stating this Jazzy! This is perfectly stated. I am also a 20 year veteran model. From 2005-2017 I toured extensively as an art nude model. I even shot a lot fetish and glamour nude work too. However, in 2020 my limits changed. What I am booking changed. A lot has changed with my career.

I noticed some smart a$$ added my nude images on his list of 'does not shoot nude'. I was wondering what that was all about? Some photographers seem really thin skinned when a model is no longer is available for nudes. It's no offense. However, as an older model nearly 40, I have my personal reasons I no longer shoot nudes. Honestly, I am just a different and older woman now. People change and careers change. Why should a model be expected to shoot the same styles she shot at 20 in her 40's? She has physically changed and the type of bookings for older models tend to be different. Models change, evolve and grow. Why should a style she shot in her past be expected decades later? Any other career path, people seem to accept and expect people change. But in modeling, photographers seem bothered by it.

 

I have been really struggling to convey this change on my profile recently. I keep coming back to re-edit my profile. I am still unsure how to explain the change?

I do agree we certainly have more than a fair share of jerks. Love your attitude.You'd be a joy to work with.

M59Photography wrote:

I only shoot nudes. Does that make me a "creeper" by default?

Some "creepers" only shoot nudes.
Some "creepers" do not shoot nudes.
Some "photographers" only shoot nudes.
Some "photographers" do not shoot nudes.

Samantha Grace wrote:
I noticed some smart a$$ added my nude images on his list of 'does not shoot nude'. . . However, as an older model nearly 40, I have my personal reasons I no longer shoot nudes.

You explain this way down in the bottom of your profile. You could avoid FUD by placing a statement at the top of your profile.

At one time (it may still be in effect) MM had a rule that if a model stated no nudes and a photographer asked her to pose nude, he would be kicked off of MM.

Samantha Grace wrote:
Thank you for stating this Jazzy! This is perfectly stated. I am also a 20 year veteran model. From 2005-2017 I toured extensively as an art nude model. I even shot a lot fetish and glamour nude work too. However, in 2020 my limits changed. What I am booking changed. A lot has changed with my career.

I noticed some smart a$$ added my nude images on his list of 'does not shoot nude'. I was wondering what that was all about? Some photographers seem really thin skinned when a model is no longer is available for nudes. It's no offense. However, as an older model nearly 40, I have my personal reasons I no longer shoot nudes. Honestly, I am just a different and older woman now. People change and careers change. Why should a model be expected to shoot the same styles she shot at 20 in her 40's? She has physically changed and the type of bookings for older models tend to be different. Models change, evolve and grow. Why should a style she shot in her past be expected decades later? Any other career path, people seem to accept and expect people change. But in modeling, photographers seem bothered by it.

I have been really struggling to convey this change on my profile recently. I keep coming back to re-edit my profile. I am still unsure how to explain the change?

My feeling is that you don't owe anyone an explanation or justification of what your limits are and what you are available to shoot. Just state it plainly and don't even reply to people who haven't read your profile first or those who choose to ignore your stated limits. In my experience, any discussion or justification just just opens you to receiving nasty messages and retaliation.

G Reese wrote:

I do agree we certainly have more than a fair share of jerks. Love your attitude.You'd be a joy to work with.

Thank you. I tend to have a more optimistic personality. I always look forward and I tend to be more self improvement minded. How can this improve? I am glad to know my positivity comes through digitally. I swear some of the jerk attitudes must be a form of sexism. Let's punish her because she shot nude 10 years ago. Now you are forever labeled a whore. You can never be anything but. But as I see it, the modeling competition has changed for me. There are fewer models my age still modeling. While there are photographers who want to shoot older women nude. I am finding the offerings as a model has changed. A lot less nude offers and more commercial and lifestyle. Nude modeling is very much a young models game. Which is fine too. In my late 30's it would be foolish to compare myself to a 23 year old model. It would also be foolish to expect the same bookings as at 23.  I feel a model should be honest with such career changes. As I have been joking lately, I am not forever 21. I am completely okay with that. The change in my books reflect that. Heck, I am at an age were if I shop and wear Forever 21 clothing... it looks like I am trying too hard!

Mark Salo wrote:
You explain this way down in the bottom of your profile. You could avoid FUD by placing a statement at the top of your profile.

At one time (it may still be in effect) MM had a rule that if a model stated no nudes and a photographer asked her to pose nude, he would be kicked off of MM.

Oh yeah! I forgot they had that rule way back around 2005. Which also seems extreme too. I remember about 10 years ago, there was a mod who was the problematic p*orn police as I would call him. He made me remove my Playboy credits. I am curious what the rules are on MM these days? Honestly, the whole shooting nudes and not shooting nude tends to not be as straight forward as Yes/ No. A lot of models once posed nude and no longer do so for many different reasons. Some models shoot conservative style implied nudes while other shoot adult style nudes. So, the concept of shooting nudes is nuanced. Selecting 'Yes' to shooting nudes when a model no longer shots nude, but shot nude in her past seems not accurate. Could come off like a bait and switch.

Thank you for the tip Mark. I did add a bit at the top of my profile about my availability changing. I do not mind people contacting me about shooting nudes at all. Doesn't offend me at all. I am simply wanting to be accurate in my bookings and not waste the time of a potential client. I do not think marking 'yes' to shooting nudes when I am not currently available to do so is accurate. Hopefully, this suggestion clears about any confusion. Because I do see the fact people can easily find nudes of me on MM to be confusing. Many nudes are linked to my profile in terms of credits. It is interesting people assume it's because a model is "too good' to shoot nudes or a husband is limiting her. It can be as simple as some models are bored with shooting in that style. Or she has signed a noncompete contract so she is exclusive. She is choosing a bigger paycheck. Yes, I do not think it needs an explanation for the reason. Just it is good to be transparent with potential bookings.

Model MoRina wrote:

My feeling is that you don't owe anyone an explanation or justification of what your limits are and what you are available to shoot. Just state it plainly and don't even reply to people who haven't read your profile first or those who choose to ignore your stated limits. In my experience, any discussion or justification just just opens you to receiving nasty messages and retaliation.

That is a good way of thinking of it. I am simply trying to be accurate that way no one feels mislead in bookings. I do notice in explaining some people seem to be looking for loop holes. It is interesting since the shutdowns, I am noticing a lot of older models aren't touring as often. A lot of us are creating our own content. I am sure there is a level of frustration with this coming from photographers. At one time there was an oversaturation of models. Now there are fewer models taking bookings. A lot of models aren't traveling or touring anymore. So, I completely see both sides.

Dan Howell wrote:
I have said for years (decades now) that models are free to set their own boundaries and apply them as inconsistently as they choose. Shoot them or move on. Not worth getting grumpy about.

In truth this is the only way to view this topic sanely!

I shoot a lot of nude glamour and find that if you do what the models have been screaming for years, you'll find many more are ready to get to work than not.

1. state your intended genre and concept
2. where you intend to shoot.
3. when you intend to shoot
4. compensation provided
5. extras- wardrobe HMUA stylist etc.
6. perks-travel fees, lodging etc.

Stating all this in your communication will get you a direct response. Stating in your casting works even better.

G Wilson wrote:

In truth this is the only way to view this topic sanely!

I shoot a lot of nude glamour and find that if you do what the models have been screaming for years, you'll find many more are ready to get to work than not.

1. state your intended genre and concept
2. where you intend to shoot.
3. when you intend to shoot
4. compensation provided
5. extras- wardrobe HMUA stylist etc.
6. perks-travel fees, lodging etc.

Stating all this in your communication will get you a direct response. Stating in your casting works even better.

Yes to this.  Unfortunately, there will still be those whose first message to a model begins and ends with "what are your limits?" No. That's not how this works. Lol

G Wilson wrote:

In truth this is the only way to view this topic sanely!

I shoot a lot of nude glamour and find that if you do what the models have been screaming for years, you'll find many more are ready to get to work than not.

1. state your intended genre and concept
2. where you intend to shoot.
3. when you intend to shoot
4. compensation provided
5. extras- wardrobe HMUA stylist etc.
6. perks-travel fees, lodging etc.

Stating all this in your communication will get you a direct response. Stating in your casting works even better.

It would be nice if it where that simple. The reality I have found, people don't read. Then get upset when you politely explain a slight fault that was missed. I would sometimes appreciate a simple, 'Oh I was so excited to contact you I forgot to read your profile.' I'm a big fan of being transparent and honest. I have accepted because I have other venues outside of modeling. This is just the modern world. I call it the Craigslist mindset. Haha... if you have ever tried to sell anything on craigslist, you will find the same insanity over there. But 20 years ago, when I worked with the public I saw this behavior a lot less. It seems something that has come with the internet and easy access to everything at your finger tips.

Znude! wrote:
It's no more confusing than models who say they model but really don't.

I needed this chuckle. Truth is funnier than fiction - every time.