Paolo D Photography wrote:
glad youre still with us!
I'm sure most everyone will get it or has already had it. Hopefully there wont be any long term effect for you.

Thanks! Stay safe. You don't want this crap lol. I feel lucky to be alive but so hyper frustrated that I still feel like this. But whatever I'm alive so I'm thankful.

Paolo D Photography wrote:
whats everyones' thoughts on having immunity or not after you've already had it?
sometimes i hear that you wont get it again, or at least that version of it.
think any of that is accurate?

i hope YAJHILPHOTO cant get it again!

Right now, anyone who tells you they KNOW the answer to that question is probably poorly informed.

Like everything else about this virus, no one knows for sure.

It is a coronavirus. So far, the seven coronaviruses that are known to infect humans dont seem to produce long lasting antibodies or immunity.

Four of the seven coronaviruses that infect man produce the common cold. As we all know, we can get a cold over and over.

Of the other three- SARS, MERS, and SARS-CoV-2.... SARS and MERS dont seem to produce long lasting immunity, and it is too early to know about SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID 19)... BUT---- the data is sparse for ALL THREE.

The GOOD news is that the early (early)(again early) data from several of the vaccine trials is VERY promising... There always has to be a FIRST and with luck maybe this will be the first successful vaccine for a coronavirus.

Paolo D Photography wrote:
whats everyones' thoughts on having immunity or not after you've already had it?
sometimes i hear that you wont get it again, or at least that version of it.
think any of that is accurate?

i hope YAJHILPHOTO cant get it again!

Honestly I have no idea and yeah nobody knows either. In my mind, because I still have issues I'm like "there's no freaking way I can get it right now, I'm not even back to normal yet, this hot skin must mean I have antibodies!" but that's not very scientific and it's pretty stupid too lol. So whenever I go out I do the mask thing, my friends all do the mask thing, and we hang out in our small circle of 4 and are very aware or the things we do and don't wanna do in order to stay safe.

Here in New Jersey they opened up restaurants but with outdoor seating only. However, everyone is outside sitting there with no masks on and for sure nowhere near 6 feet apart, and in large groups, so we don't do that. The most we do is go sit at park or beach super far from other people (and I mean very far) and whenever someone decides to walk near us we put our masks on. We do the best we can. Honestly though, I think everyone in my group has had it already at some point just none to the point that I did. Still, I wouldn't trust the antibody test unless you for sure know you coronavirus. For me it was freaking obvious. However, two of my friends, they are a lesbian couple, one of them tested positive for antibodies and the other didn't and they sleep in the same damn bed. Makes no sense. The best thing to do is to behave like you haven't had it, don't want it, and don't wanna give it to someone else if you do.

rfordphotos wrote:
Right now, anyone who tells you they KNOW the answer to that question is probably poorly informed.

Like everything else about this virus, no one knows for sure.

It is a coronavirus. So far, the seven coronaviruses that are known to infect humans dont seem to produce long lasting antibodies or immunity.

Four of the seven coronaviruses that infect man produce the common cold. As we all know, we can get a cold over and over.

Of the other three- SARS, MERS, and SARS-CoV-2.... SARS and MERS dont seem to produce long lasting immunity, and it is too early to know about SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID 19)... BUT---- the data is sparse for ALL THREE.

The GOOD news is that the early (early)(again early) data from several of the vaccine trials is VERY promising... There always has to be a FIRST and with luck maybe this will be the first successful vaccine for a coronavirus.

You know, the vaccine thing is good but honestly it scares me. I had never had the flu, or the flu shot, and then in 2014 a doctor asked me if I wanted it and I said ok out of curiosity. The next day, I had shingles all over the back of my neck and stabbing head pains. I also got so freaking sick. Then when I got coronavirus, guess what came back to the party? Not the shingles scabs but the stabbing head pains. I mean, I still got the once in a blue but they came back with a vengeance this time. Not to scare anyone but Coronavirus triggered everything I have ever had wrong with me. Everything.

So when I hear about the vaccine I'm like" OMG yeah end this please", but then I am so frightened. I understand that my reaction to the flu shot doesn't happen to everyone, but I do know of people that have had the same thing happen to them including an ex that got shingles too and almost went blind. The thing that sucks is that they are doing all this research so fast to see what works and seems safest but there isn't going to be years of data and results. So yeah, I do hesitate a bit thinking about if this vaccine happens if my body can handle it. It's a messy dilemma. I just know I don't want to die and I don't want to kill anyone either.

YAJHILPHOTO wrote:
[...]The best thing to do is to behave like you haven't had it, don't want it, and don't wanna give it to someone else if you do.

and that says it all.

We wouldnt "end" the virus, but we sure as hell would be a lot closer to successfully dealing with it if folks just followed your advice....

YAJHILPHOTO wrote:
So when I hear about the vaccine I'm like" OMG yeah end this please", but then I am so frightened. I understand that my reaction to the flu shot doesn't happen to everyone,...

Vaccines seem like a strange concept to me. Specifically the flu vaccine. i only ever hear people complain about being ill after they've gotten it. Then they end up getting the flu anyways. Seems pointless.
Perhaps I'm simplifying it too much but in my opinion it doesn't seem logical to stick yourself with a man made version of a rapidly mutating virus in hopes that it will be similar enough to the actual virus and your body will build up some immunity.
I'd rather focus on hygiene and keeping a healthy immune system.

If my understanding is somewhat correct, and Covid-19 is also a rapidly mutating virus, similar to the 'common cold' then it is unfortunately here to stay. Its a new evolution of a disease thats probably millions of years old, and we already failed to contain it.

heres my crazy person rant:
By sheer chance our mammal ancestors survived an extinction event, and exploited the situation. Those adaptations fortunately also worked well as humans evolved and the world went into an ice age. We're basically an ice age species, and would be extinct if we didnt learn how to change the environment to fit us. We don't adapt anymore.
Now we're near the end of that ice age. Humans are a rapidly reproducing species that no longer live in harmony with the earth.
We try to use technology to balance out our genetic weaknesses but its not a sustainable practice. We're out of control and foolish to think that anything, especially humans are forever. A shortsightedness as result of our little lifespan and mental deterioration. The universe has a way to keep everything in check and will continue to check us.
If we don't do ourselves in first, in order for the species to evolve and survive we'll be forced to either make a major change or continue to loose a battle against mother nature until the next extinction event wipes us out.
Seeing as how our primary focus seems to be on making sure we see at least 5000 advertisements a day for solutions to problems we didnt know existed, and feeding our dopamine addiction in various ways, i think our time on this planet will relatively be just a blink of the eye, and we will have spend the last half of it severely over estimating our significance,

Paolo D Photography wrote:
Vaccines seem like a strange concept to me. Specifically the flu vaccine. i only ever hear people complain about being ill after they've gotten it. Then they end up getting the flu anyways. Seems pointless.

Thats because there are never reports of millions of people who get the vaccine and don't get the flu.

Paolo D Photography wrote:
[
Vaccines seem like a strange concept to me. Specifically the flu vaccine. i only ever hear people complain about being ill after they've gotten it. Then they end up getting the flu anyways. Seems pointless.
Perhaps I'm simplifying it too much but in my opinion it doesn't seem logical to stick yourself with a man made version of a rapidly mutating virus in hopes that it will be similar enough to the actual virus and your body will build up some immunity.
I'd rather focus on hygiene and keeping a healthy immune system.

If my understanding is somewhat correct, and Covid-19 is also a rapidly mutating virus, similar to the 'common cold' then it is unfortunately here to stay. Its a new evolution of a disease thats probably millions of years old, and we already failed to contain it.

[...]

Paolo-
____My opinion____ You are not thinking clearly about vaccines. The world would be a very different place without them.

Small Pox---  pretty much doesnt exist as a health issue on the GLOBE any longer--- because of vaccines
W.H.O.--- "Smallpox has existed for at least 3,000 years and was one of the world’s most feared diseases until it was eradicated by a collaborative global vaccination program led by the World Health Organization. The last known natural case was in Somalia in 1977."

measles, mumps, rubella ----  Seven to eight million children are thought to have died from measles each year before the vaccine was introduced. Before the vaccine, epidemic cycles occur every 2 to 3 years, and virtually everyone experienced measles illness during childhood. Lifelong immunity is provided by natural infection...Rubella has been effectively eliminated by vaccination. Mumps cases are estimated to be 1/1000 of what they were...

Polio effectively eliminated by vaccines

tetanus  effectively eliminated by vaccines.

It is difficult to say how many lives are saved by flu shots. The vaccine is more effective some years than others--- because it fights MULTIPLE viruses, it is a combination of vaccines, and sometimes a different strain spreads that the vaccines didnt anticipate... The CDC estimates it reduces flu cases 40-60% each year. Certainly not perfect, but the 40-60% who DONT GET THE FLU seem to like it....

So- you can doubt vaccines all you want. (your privilege) but science, statistics and experience weighs VERY heavily in favor of vaccines.

Paolo D Photography wrote:
[...]
i only ever seem to hear complaints about it, and dont see promising results with current technology.
i hope covid-19 can be wiped out, but if its similar to other diseases we havent successfully vaccinated against, then maybe we can prevent future outbreaks by changing other practices.

Paolo I suspect it will take everything we can muster to get this under any kind of control.

They are pretty plain when they speak about the vaccines--- they are saying up front that there will no doubt be "several" vaccines, that they will be used for different situations (targeted age groups, pregnant women, certain previous conditions etc etc). They will not all have the same effectiveness, and none of them are likely to be 100% effective.

And, not everyone will take the vaccine. It doesnt sound like you are currently inclined to take it , and there are a lot of folks that wont.

We know herd immunity takes anywhere from 40 to 90% (depending on who you ask) so if low numbers take the shots, we still wont have herd immunity.

It isnt likely that there will be a "magic bullet" that makes it all go away. We will have to learn to live with the virus.

With all that, the only hope we have (IMHO) is the "combination" of "new practices" and the vaccines.

With time we will likely learn to do a better job treating the disease, preventing the damaging aftermath etc etc. With time.

Paolo D Photography wrote:
before everyone goes putting words in my mouth, i didnt say vaccines cant eliminate shit. i just said its seems a strange concept to me (my opinion in part formed by lack of fully understanding). i just know the basics.

however, i did specifically imply i dont think getting the flu shot is worth it.
sure there might be statistics that show its favorable, i didnt look at any of that. people dont usually brag about something working if its expected to work, so its true we wont hear much of that from our friends either. its kind of difficult to prove that you didnt get sick because of the shot or not. statistics can be interpreted or sold in different ways.

i only ever seem to hear complaints about it, and dont see promising results with current technology.
i hope covid-19 can be wiped out, but if its similar to other diseases we havent successfully vaccinated against, then maybe we can prevent future outbreaks by changing other practices.

Paolo, nobody is putting words in your mouth you haven't committed to print yourself. You admit you do not understand how vaccines work. You admit you did not "look" at statistics.   You refer to vague anecdotal "complaints" you "seem to hear." On this basis you concluded that the vaccine is "pointless" and not "worth it." Come on, man.

rfordphotos wrote:
Paolo I suspect it will take everything we can muster to get this under any kind of control.

i wish others would muster just a little bit, the neighbors up the street from me are having some sort of party right now 15+ people out front in the yard / street on a tuesday drinking. im drinking too, no judgment there... but im inside alone. Barely had any contact with people for mooonths. Seemingly other people everywhere just dont care because the threat is less visible and they dont want to be bored. No one individual is to blame, but as a whole we humans just won't cut it. We havent learned teamwork.
For the record, if there was a vaccine that was worthwhile I'd get it, although the sociopath in me says "roll the dice".

Paolo D Photography wrote:
however, i did specifically imply i dont think getting the flu shot is worth it.

All I can do is relate my personal experience. Many years ago, I was not getting the flu vaccine. One year, I got the flu, bad.
I was off work for 9 days and really felt like crap.
I decided I would get the flu vaccine from then on and I have done so except for one year.

After getting the vaccine, I have had very mild feelings of not being quite well a couple of times but they didn't last long and weren't very bad at all compared to having the flu.

I haven't had the flu at all. I'll be getting my flu shot this year as soon as they are available. Flu and Covid is uncharted territory but it doesn't sound good at all. I can be careful about one of those two and I can probably eliminate the other.

So I'll do what I can and be both careful and hopeful. Be safe!!!

Focuspuller wrote:

Paolo, nobody is putting words in your mouth you haven't committed to print yourself. You admit you do not understand how vaccines work. You admit you did not "look" at statistics.   You refer to vague anecdotal "complaints" you "seem to hear." On this basis you concluded that the vaccine is "pointless" and not "worth it." Come on, man.

thats why i said "before" anyone puts words in my mouth. no one did, which i appreciate. shows intelligence and good comprehension on everyones' part. *thumbs up*

and yes, you pretty much described my thoughts correctly.

taking a guess at how a virus might mutate and sticking a version of that virus into someone in hope that they might build antibodies, and those antibodies might be effective against the actual virus they encounter if they so happen to encounter it seems like an idiotic game of chance to me. i think a better prevention would be protecting yourself against the virus with good hygiene and maintaining heathly immune system.

To me the flu shot is like installing an old version of printer software into a computer, in hopes that if someone hooks up a printer it will be compatible.

I dont expect my thought process to be widely accepted, and I might be playing dumb a little.
But as far as taking precaution to not spread anything you can count on me to not be an asshole.

Shadow Dancer wrote:

All I can do is relate my personal experience. Many years ago, I was not getting the flu vaccine. One year, I got the flu, bad.
I was off work for 9 days and really felt like crap.
I decided I would get the flu vaccine from then on and I have done so except for one year.

After getting the vaccine, I have had very mild feelings of not being quite well a couple of times but they didn't last long and weren't very bad at all compared to having the flu.

I haven't had the flu at all. I'll be getting my flu shot this year as soon as they are available. Flu and Covid is uncharted territory but it doesn't sound good at all. I can be careful about one of those two and I can probably eliminate the other.

So I'll do what I can and be both careful and hopeful. Be safe!!!

thats great to hear a success story of sorts! and you know i respect your input.
i cant recall the last time i had the flu, never had a shot for it as everyone may guess. I'll get seasonal get colds tho.

LightDreams wrote:
Her explanation was that far too many people don't get a flu shot until the flu season has really gotten started.

That makes the most sense to me too. People reacting instead of being proactive.
Thanks for sharing that.

rfordphotos wrote:
Paolo, maybe if you spent an hour learning a bit about vaccines, and how they are made, how they work, it would make you more comfortable about the whole thing.

I assure you I've done way more research than you assume, and not just recently.

Paolo D Photography wrote:
[...]
I assure you I've done way more research than you assume, and not just recently.

If you feel you have done "due diligence" it would be hard to ask for more. We will just have to agree to disagree..... I dont see the data the same way you do.