Patrick Walberg wrote:
Now this model has done a 180 degree turn on me and blames me for her getting sick.  She has even gone to the point where she says I nearly killed her.

Have you ever made people sick before?
Please stay in California, far away from me!

Abbitt Photography wrote:
So many things wrapped up in that   Just a couple that come to mind:

1.  The importance of documentation and saving it.  Years ago, I had a somewhat similar attempt from a party attempting to reverse the facts.  I probably would have lost my job, had I not saved the documentation proving the falseness of their claim.  It’s the same reason to be diligent about model releases. 

2.  Not long ago I was reading about the differences in a skilled (certified) vs uncertified caregiver and that was an interesting point one article stated:  if you hire an under insured (or uninsured) independent contractor, you put yourself at a greater liability risk should something go wrong.   If insurance won’t pay, they have a greater incentive to argue you should pay. 

Sorry she did a reversal on you.  Hopefully your documentation will mean that goes nowhere.

Yes, if needed I have enough documentation and witnesses that nothing more than a photographer/ model friendship has gone bad,

Camera Buff wrote:
You acknowledge your concern about this model getting hypothermia and regardless of her believing she would be able continue, her health deteriorated as you feared it might. I believe that as the photographer in charge you should have better understood the risk as well as the possible consequences and immediately put an end to your shoot. I suggest that you always have an indoor shoot alternative available for bad weather days.

I am in complete agreement with you.  I should've had an alternative indoor set up.  She did not give me any indication that she was in distress until after we finished.  The things she said kept me thinking she was alright.  Also I had worked with another model previously who had modeled under the same weather conditions. The fact is the other model had a visibly higher Body Mass Index than this more recent model.  The beaches in Northern California are notorious for being cold even during some Summer days.  It's that fog!

Mark Salo wrote:
Have you ever made people sick before?
Please stay in California, far away from me!

I hope you are being sarcastic!   I did not make her sick! 
Why would I ever be inclined to get near you?  LOL

ROUA IMAGES wrote:
Sounds like a prior evening of excess that didn't transition very well into the next day's shoot...

Excuse me, but she was not hung over.  I used to live on a ranch that is a paradise. long story short, I had to leave the ranch after my mom died.  We also had a fire that burned a house and two barns to the ground.  Otherwise, I would not only have a beautiful location to shoot from, but I also proved her and other models and photographers a place to shoot and stay iin our guest room.  This model was a friend whoh stayed at my home in the guest room twice. 

She was grreat modeling .. no problems with that at all!   I'm happy enough with the resulting pictures.  Interesting that you are making such assumptions.  There is another factor, and that is she came from a State with a very hot climate and this location in California being near the coast was cold that day.  I am regretting that I didn't insist that she let me take her to the ER.  She should also have been tested for Covid.  Now I will never know for sure.  I kick myself for not having a backup plan, but I was spoiled having been able to shoot in the past at my home on the ranch.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Now this model has done a 180 degree turn on me and blames me for her getting sick.  She has even gone to the point where she says I nearly killed her.

Mark Salo wrote:
Have you ever made people sick before?
Please stay in California, far away from me!

Patrick Walberg wrote:
I hope you are being sarcastic!   I did not make her sick! 
Why would I ever be inclined to get near you?  LOL

But she said that you made her sick.

Dan Howell wrote:
Why the hell are you posting this potentially damaging and actionable admissions in a public forum.

While it might not end up getting used against you, what possible benefit are the answers you are seeking here by random people that outweigh the risks?

Yes, I wrote about an experience I had with a model, however, I do not think I've written anything that could be potentially damaging.  Let's not make this about my experience now since it is doubtful that we are not going to hear from the other person.  So now this question becomes hypothetical.  I'm asking if any photographers have ever had a model get sick before, during or after a shoot?  What did you do?

Varton Photography wrote:
I think the answer to your question is obvious. If your model gets sick the priority is to seek competent help and prevent harm to the model by available means.

I wanted to take her to the ER but she refused. The lack of insurance was her reason.  While with me, she was extremely apologetic as if it were her fault. Two days later, she got on a plane and flew back home.  There was no indication that she would blame me. 

If anything this experience taught me that models and photographers would benefit from affordable health insurance, or better yet, free healthcare for all.   It was sometime ago, but I nearly died because I did not have health insurance.   I am now insured thanks to Obama advocating for people with previous conditions.  The Affordable Healthcare Act saved my life.  I am shocked that models would travel without health insurance.  I would like to start something to help all of us be able to get insurance. Times have been hard with Covid .. but things are looking up.

Mark Salo wrote:
But she said that you made her sick.

She did not say that while she was with me.  She was even apologizing saying she was sorry for getting sick. 

Answer my question, Mark, as I see you have shot with many models. 
Did any of the get sick just before, during or right after a shoot?  If so, what did you do?

Patrick Walberg wrote:

Yes, I wrote about an experience I had with a model, however, I do not think I've written anything that could be potentially damaging.  Let's not make this about my experience now since it is doubtful that we are not going to hear from the other person.  So now this question becomes hypothetical.  I'm asking if any photographers have ever had a model get sick before, during or after a shoot?  What did you do?

Sorry, but you are chasing the horses after you left the barn door open. NOTHING about your OP was hypothetical. Maybe you should look up that definition. You were venting. Admit it. You wanted us to support you and now that we didn't you are trying to change the rules.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Pat, I know you only from sites like this and the few times we've spoken and you have always come across as a stand up, kind guy.  Frankly there didn't seem like there was a lot you could have done and she is an adult I'm assuming.   If she didn't feel well it was on  her   to stop the session.   Her lack of health insurance was also on her.   When models tell me they aren't feeling well I stop the shoot.   Again you asked her and she refused.   Not much you can do now though.

Thank you Tony!   

The fact that she was sick but refused to go to the ER because of the medical bill.got me thinking about the importance of health insurance.  No one should deny themselves medical attention because of their lack of ability to pay!  That is one of the messed up things I see in this country is that artists like models and photographers have a hard time keeping up with bills, then get hit with a medical crisis.  We can do better!

Dan Howell wrote:
Sorry, but you are chasing the horses after you left the barn door open. NOTHING about your OP was hypothetical. Maybe you should look up that definition. You were venting. Admit it. You wanted us to support you and now that we didn't you are trying to change the rules.

I don't vent. I look towards the future from incidents like this.  I know for a FACT that not having insurance almost cost my life because I refused to go to the ER.  I understand how this model feels!  The importance of finishing a shoot takes priority over dying.  During a shoot, I was dying from congestive heart failure and didn't know it because I didn't have insurance.  That was 20 years ago, but I have too much to do before I die.

WE NEED LOW COST OR FREE HEALTH INSURANCE FOR ALL PEOPLE!

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Frankly there didn't seem like there was a lot you could have done and she is an adult I'm assuming.   If she didn't feel well it was on  her   to stop the session.   Her lack of health insurance was also on her.   When models tell me they aren't feeling well I stop the shoot.   Again you asked her and she refused.   Not much you can do now though.

I agree with you.
We should stop treating adult women like they need a man to rush in and save them. It's paternalistic and unnecessary. Unless you are incapacitated with an injury or illness, it's on you to decide if you want to seek medical help. And who the hell goes to the ER because they are throwing up?  Lol. During a covid pandemic no less. You'd come out with sicker than you went in!

MoRina wrote:
I agree with you.
We should stop treating adult women like they need a man to rush in and save them. It's paternalistic and unnecessary. Unless you are incapacitated with an injury or illness, it's on you to decide if you want to seek medical help. And who the hell goes to the ER because they are throwing up?  Lol. During a covid pandemic no less. You'd come out with sicker than you went in!

I very much agree with you regarding being too paternal.  She very much is an adult.  All I did was listen carefully to her requests.  She was sicker than just throwing up, and not vaccinated.   Fever, chills, and pains including headache .. but still she was able to communicate her wishes.  I thought maybe she had covid.  I'm fully vaccinated, but it would have been nice to know if I were exposed anyway.

The one thing that I disagree with it that healthcare "is on her."  We should have equal access!  She would have gone to the hospital to at least get a covid test if she knew she wouldn't have to pay for it.

WE NEED FREE HEALTH INSURANCE FOR ALL CREATIVES!  I've known too many musicians, models and photographers who were unable to pay for badly needed medical care.

She was very apologetic about being sick while this was happening.  I told her it was not her fault.  In nothing that she said did she indicate that she thought I was to blame. So then I don't like being falsely accused of nearly killing her DAYS AFTER by "making her sick!"

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Yes, I wrote about an experience I had with a model, however, I do not think I've written anything that could be potentially damaging.  Let's not make this about my experience now since it is doubtful that we are not going to hear from the other person.  So now this question becomes hypothetical.  I'm asking if any photographers have ever had a model get sick before, during or after a shoot?  What did you do?

You're getting highly defensive and argumentative with lots of people in here and it's pretty obvious you don't really see the big picture here in what you've done and what you are doing.

Personally, I would have cancelled the entire shoot the moment she said she was just food poisoned.

Shot By Adam wrote:

You're getting highly defensive and argumentative with lots of people in here and it's pretty obvious you don't really see the big picture here in what you've done and what you are doing.

Personally, I would have cancelled the entire shoot the moment she said she was just food poisoned.

Personally I agree completely with you.  Yes, I should have canceled.  However, hindsight is always more clear than foresight. I just wondered if anyone had something like this happen to them before.  No need for arguements here.

John Silva Photography wrote:
When MY models get sick I give them chicken soup...., did you try that?!?
John

You have the right idea!  I would've tried, but she couldn't seem to hold anything down .. not even water. She was with me for a relatively short time, and we were on the road.