Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
TF is dead
You are expected to pay their rates, supply the images they need for OF sites and other content sales and then hand over your camera at the end of the shoot.


Seriously though communication is crucial. Ask about terms in 1st contact

You are correct. The new normal is becoming pay the models rate and also provide all images raw and edited. The model has full rights and can profit from the use of said images. Just on the horizon is all of the above plus the model will decide what images you are allowed to use and on which platform.

Seriously though communication is crucial. Ask about terms in 1st contact.

You are correct. The new normal is becoming pay the models rate and also provide all images raw and edited. The model has full rights and can profit from the use of said images. Just on the horizon is all of the above plus the model will decide what images you are allowed to use and on which platform.

I've seen this attitude so frequently. Due to the "Make money for doing nothing here!!! and the "gimme money or buy me shit for no other reason than I supplied you a link to my cashapp!!" attitude so prevalent on social media now it's sadly become the norm. I suppose it will take some high-volume sales on someone's work before it is litigated in copyright court. I laugh when I hear the expectation to pay an amateur model $200/hr and then have her ask how long it will take for the photos will be ready for her to upload to her OF.

david durkee wrote:
I've seen this attitude so frequently. Due to the "Make money for doing nothing here!!! and the "gimme money or buy me shit for no other reason than I supplied you a link to my cashapp!!" attitude so prevalent on social media now it's sadly become the norm. I suppose it will take some high-volume sales on someone's work before it is litigated in copyright court. I laugh when I hear the expectation to pay an amateur model $200/hr and then have her ask how long it will take for the photos will be ready for her to upload to her OF.

I suppose you had ought to go ahead and take these sentences off your profile then: "I believe in compensating my models. I'm not rich but if you are putting your time and effort in, I'm going to show my appreciation by compensating you."

COI Photography wrote:
Long time photography user of this site, but I haven't been active with models from this site for years.  How does this site treat models wanting to build onlyfans?  Are models expecting to shoot TF(p) and then use images on Onlyfans or do they expect to pay?  Just curious how the "social customs" on this site changed over the years.

Thanks

OF hasn't affected anything worth mentioning.  The only thing affecting what you can/can't do or how much you pay or get paid is whatever YOU arrange with the model (or the model with the photographer).  That's it.   Models still shoot TF (trade or print) since the beginning of modern photography and will continue to do so for years to come.

What I find ridiculous is how many photographers still, after all these years of internet-based modeling continue to chase prospective models who are obviously too immature to conduct themselves in a business manner.  Likewise, a photographer has to have a certain mature acumen to shoot mature-minded models without having to contend with the tiktok/instagram minded ilk who'll spend 50hrs. week peering into their phone/social media and don't have a meaningful plan in life- do you really want to deal with that internet model?  I still see threads here pertaining to such.

The only thing that's changed is the increased number of people taking photos, video, and not having to rely on others to do that for them.  Market and social saturation in that context.   OF hasn't changed a thing in the over all photography/modeling sphere.

Dan Howell wrote:

I suppose you had ought to go ahead and take these sentences off your profile then: "I believe in compensating my models. I'm not rich but if you are putting your time and effort in, I'm going to show my appreciation by compensating you."

No, I compensate models that do work for ME. That doesn't grant them rights to resell my work at a profit. If I do work for them, I get paid. If they do work for me, they get paid. It's not complicated. They sign a model release which allows me to resell. If they want to resell, they pay for copyright and then they can do whatever they want.

But to expect me to pay them, and then they profit... No.

Modelphilia wrote:
I have never yet had to pay a model out of my own pocket.

Where this becomes problematic is when one of your shots gets purchased and used for marketing and you start making some $$$$. If the model hasn't been paid a "meaningful" amount (that's legal talk) for her work then she can sue you for a portion of, majority of, or all of your proceeds.

Years ago I worked with a model on MM named Macy Osborne. It happened that one of my images of her that was supposed to be for a wholesale clothing catalog ended up being used for a public-facing marketing campaign in Hong Kong. I contacted the company doing the ads and much to their credit they paid me a meaningful amount of money. In turn I contacted Macy and sent her a meaningful amount of what I had received.

And no one got sued.

This doesn't matter if your work is just for the sake of art. That's wonderful on its own.

But if you start making some money from the work then it's a good idea to make sure your model is getting a taste of the action.

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
TF is dead
You are expected to pay their rates, supply the images they need for OF sites and other content sales and then hand over your camera at the end of the shoot.


Seriously though communication is crucial. Ask about terms in 1st contact

We are dammed if we ask for $$ & images for being greedy.
We are dammed if we ask for $$ & NO images for NOT liking the images.
We are dammed if we ask for TFP, because we never get the images...

Oh well

Iona Lynn 2 wrote:
We are dammed if we ask for $$ & images for being greedy.
We are dammed if we ask for $$ & NO images for NOT liking the images.
We are dammed if we ask for TFP, because we never get the images...

Oh well

THAT.

And that last one in particular? I have traded with photographers over the past 20 years, maybe a handful of times. 3 our of 5 of them (just throwing a number out there) have never given me images or took a year or year and a half to give ANYTHING to me. One guy gave me two pictures after I emailed him a half of a dozen times over a year.

The truth is, photography has slowly been devalued over the past 20 years due to the internet, the digital age, and just how relatively easy/common it is to shoot. That is reflective with modeling as well. So models are like; fine. I'll shoot my own content and get paid for it. And so? They don't need photographers anymore. I don't know anyone who hires or trades with a photographer for OF content. Why would they do that?

I personally still like the relationships I have with photographers who genuinely want to learn and get better by hiring models like me. Is it common? Nope. Is it unfortunate? Yes. C'est la vie.

Model Sarah wrote:
And that last one in particular? I have traded with photographers over the past 20 years, maybe a handful of times. 3 our of 5 of them (just throwing a number out there) have never given me images or took a year or year and a half to give ANYTHING to me. One guy gave me two pictures after I emailed him a half of a dozen times over a year.

It's unfortunate that I've heard this specific complaint dozens of times through the years, it sucks and ruins it for eveybody.

I've always made it a point to return edits within two weeks, which is perhaps why I've managed to TF the portfolio I have over the years. Nowadays I mostly shoot with models I've worked with before, and I understand why most feel cheated.

Model Sarah wrote:
The truth is, photography has slowly been devalued over the past 20 years due to the internet, the digital age, and just how relatively easy/common it is to shoot.

You should shoot only with photographers who have darkrooms, even if unused, in their basements.

Wandering Eyebubble wrote:
It's unfortunate that I've heard this specific complaint dozens of times through the years, it sucks and ruins it for eveybody.

I've always made it a point to return edits within two weeks, which is perhaps why I've managed to TF the portfolio I have over the years. Nowadays I mostly shoot with models I've worked with before, and I understand why most feel cheated.

It just felt very one sided. There was a REASON I chose to trade my time for theirs. Unfortunately the one photographer is really famous so I think he might have felt he didn't owe me anything. Like Boris Vallejo HIRED me and shared a picture of the painting he did of me. He did not have to do that. I felt honored. I never posted it but he did share it with me. It did take him a long time to do that but so? Again, he did not have to do that. It was very sweet but rare.

*shrug* I dunno.

Ivan123 wrote:

You should shoot only with photographers who have darkrooms, even if unused, in their basements.

I don't get it?

Model Sarah wrote:

I don't get it?

I think he means us old farts. :-)  But I'm not sure age is the whole story.

G Reese wrote:

I think he means us old farts. :-)  But I'm not sure age is the whole story.

I thought he was being sarcastic, which I thought was weird because I have worked with him before.

I actually only work with film as a photographer. It helps me think and not focus on technical things. I develop my own stuff. But I just mean the actual point or "work" as a photographer is really really hard. It isn't just pointing a camera at something and shooting it. I don't think anyone gets that anymore or cares, was my point.

Al_Vee Photography wrote:
Before OF existed, MM models were shooting content for C4S. I was one of those models.

We were also trading modeling time for video content that could be resold on subscription websites and fan sites. We sold content to "fans" just like people do now on OF. We created custom videos upon request, for followers who sent us email via links they found on sites that featured us.

The only thing that has changed is the name. Models are doing what they always did. It's just called something different now.

Obviously, I'm a photographer now mostly. Sometimes models do content-trade shoots with me, just like I was doing with other photographers 10+ years ago. I find it not that much different than my own experience doing custom content in the C4S days.

This is my exact observation. I am both a model and photographer. I also have shot content for my various subscription sites over the decades. I do not see OF changing too much. Maybe the fact it is more mainstream now and it is easy to point to why things have changed? Models have been shooting for their subscription sites like pay sites since I started modeling in the early 2000's. Then it was Clips4sale. I am seeing the modeling world as a whole has changed because of the pandemic more then anything. I think a lot of the changes because of the pandemic get blamed on OFs. A lot of people when they were out of work because their jobs weren't considered essential opened an OF to survive. OF received a crazy amount of media attention at that time. Despite it being around since 2016. Most of the models I know are early adopters to this concept. I honestly think, technology has changed. With the era of the influencer changing. We are simply seeing more people move towards video and away from still photography more then anything. Models are doing what they have always done. Video killed the radio star.