Patrick Walberg wrote:
It's email.  Obviously not an offer you will respond to.   You block and move on.

This is the Model forum.
To talk about Modeling.
Modeling is mostly done by Models last time I checked.

If I feel like sharing this complete bullshit with my fellow Models, I will do that.

Thanks for y'alls "sympathy".

Simon Rob wrote:
I will get attacked for saying this because I get attacked for saying anything on MM but this guy reads dangerous. Lets put it this way if he isn't a painter or sculptor that forgot to mention it; I very much doubt it: then he has dreamt about this and did not end the dream at looking at a naked model. No he dreamt having sex with said model and what would he do when the model does not want to have sex with him? This is quite a refusal that he may not be able to deal with. This guy is a potential rapist. It says online that there have been rapes of people from jobs on MM years ago: how could there not be on any job site: well this guy could be another he should be flagged or something because he's obviously dangerous.

In my experience, there are a lot of "boundary pushers" who will lose interest in shooting something with me if I say I'm open to it. Generally the type to book for "standard art nudes" then show up and ask if they can try a brilliant idea they had and I keep my clothes on and they get naked.

There are a lot of "photographers" and such who get off on forcing someone to do something they KNOW the other person isn't comfortable with, and enjoy being at the winning end of the power dynamic.

I am open to shooting erotic work; I'm open to posing for artists that I know well in non-traditional ways that may be out of most people's comfort zones; but the key is consent.

Some people enjoy violating consent, even if it's a clothed shoot and the photographer just wants to adjust the garment really quick and knows you already said not to do that.

I'm slowly and steadily entering into my crone era, complete with walking stick to bang on the ground when students are texting or chatting during a pose or demonstrating that I do in fact know basic self defense when some absolute ass hat grabs me on a break to see if I know self defense and can get out of a hold. I now have another person on my list who is terrified of being face to face with me again.

"Nude model" is very often "person willing to do what I say for money" to some people. 🥴

Nat the droid wrote:
I'm moving back to Antarctica, need me to pack anything in the checked bag MoRina?

Popcorn. Lots of popcorn.

And eyedrops, because you'll be rolling your eyes a lot and they'll probably dry out.

Dea and the Beast wrote:

This is the Model forum.
To talk about Modeling.
Modeling is mostly done by Models last time I checked.

If I feel like sharing this complete bullshit with my fellow Models, I will do that.

Thanks for y'alls "sympathy".

Many of us who have listed as photographers have also modeled before.  I'd think you could shoot photographs yourself, am I correct?  As a youngster I modeled, acted and sang before I picked up a camera.  Having experienced being on both sides of the lens is great for all involved in our industry. There are many here who do both modeling and photography. 

I don't envy you, nor believe you want sympathy at all.  I respect and appreciate you.

Nat the droid wrote:
In my experience, there are a lot of "boundary pushers" who will lose interest in shooting something with me if I say I'm open to it. Generally the type to book for "standard art nudes" then show up and ask if they can try a brilliant idea they had and I keep my clothes on and they get naked.

There are a lot of "photographers" and such who get off on forcing someone to do something they KNOW the other person isn't comfortable with, and enjoy being at the winning end of the power dynamic.

I am open to shooting erotic work; I'm open to posing for artists that I know well in non-traditional ways that may be out of most people's comfort zones; but the key is consent.

Some people enjoy violating consent, even if it's a clothed shoot and the photographer just wants to adjust the garment really quick and knows you already said not to do that.

I'm slowly and steadily entering into my crone era, complete with walking stick to bang on the ground when students are texting or chatting during a pose or demonstrating that I do in fact know basic self defense when some absolute ass hat grabs me on a break to see if I know self defense and can get out of a hold. I now have another person on my list who is terrified of being face to face with me again.

"Nude model" is very often "person willing to do what I say for money" to some people. 🥴

I agree with this completely.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
That is how we did it before the Internet.  Speaking on the phone or in person communication (meeting at a coffee shop or my studio back in the day) were for me the best way to communicate. Holding model calls at schools and working with agencies were also important methods of vetting people.  There are times when I am nostalgic for analog days.  The Internet can be a wonderful tool for communication, but it seems that far too many people abuse it or don't even know how to use it.  Just seeing the abuse that goes on with Social Media makes me sad.

I'm glad that you have returned.  We shot many years ago when you were traveling with Elizabeth Claret .. in 2011 actually.   I joined this website near the creation of it by Tyler who after he sold MM he sent me an invite to connect on LinkedIn. There have been real friends that I have made here.  Sadly a few of the photographers and models I knew have died. Many more have left or simply have not logged in for years.  I miss the early years on this site, but I'm still honored to be here. Life is short.

There are always going to be those people we don't like. There are people who will hurt us. These past 5 years have been a struggle.  My parents have passed away.  My older brother and his wife passed away.  Then a family member did  something so terrible to me that the ramifications are lifelong.  I don't post too much personal stuff on here because I know that others have gone through much worse than I have.  The paradise I grew up on is gone.  I have to make my own. Best wishes!

.

Nat the droid wrote:
I'm going to take this as a "I'm trying to relate to people with my own experiences" and not trauma dumping Olympics because that's how it comes across.

The VERY POINT OF THIS POST is to point out an issue that many models experience. I'm fluent in craigslist double speak and the new phenomenon is "I was browsing MM" emails which, I usually get once a week or so since I'm not really active on here.

Around January of this year I had to make a choice to attempt to get on disability or to model again. I have a "rare" genetic disorder that can either mean I'm looking forward to a life of pain or i could drop dead in my 30's-50's.

I slash and burned or went dormant on my social media accounts, and decided to just make at least a sleeper account on here again since I'm not about to make a new website and this is one of the few places you can post nudes and browse people by location but the messaging system here is a joke, so I like many others post their email in my bio.

I was in my comfort zone wearing anonymizing scrubs and PPE caring for people either on hospice or memory care most of the time, and they were more likely to think i was their daughter or mom than some mildly famous on the internet person.

I'm only back because this is the one thing my body still tolerates doing. The only reason I'm not having surgery to release some impingements in my back is because I'm a poor candidate for surgery and it wouldn't put a dent in the 24/7 pain/numbness.

This is CLEARLY SOMEONE LOOKING FOR AN ESCORT. THIS IS NOT A FINE ARTIST LOOKING FOR MODELS.

That is the point of the post. Not for photographers to pause their Jordan Peterson feminist takedown compilation video on YouTube and maybe, MAYBE be able to devil's advocate a model that needs to be put in her place by pulling the "well actually" card.

Can we stay on topic guys and not try to post inane tangential paragraphs?

.
You are absolutely correct that I do try to relate, and that my comment was not an attempt to trauma dump. 

The issue of receiving disturbing emails is a phenomena that most everyone who uses the Internet is a potential target for, and many of us have experienced on a weekly if not daily basis.  These past years I've been struggling with chronic homelessness and have been using Craigslist a great deal for many reasons.  It's been getting extremely challenging due to all the bots, scammers, and creeps using it.

Good for you that you are overcoming a disability enough so that you are making a come back!  Keeping it in the positive, you are to be admired!   We all have choices, and struggles to overcome.  You are an inspiration.  I'm disabled too, and refuse to be negative about it.  The kind of work you have done, of course you know life is short. So I say live life to the fullest!

Social media can be mentally taxing.  Taking a break is good.  We have an epidemic of mental illness in this World, especially the United States, and I attribute this increase to use of social media.  The pandemic sure didn't help as we need personal human contact and interaction. Good for you working in elder care.  I have spent 18 years of my life as a caregiver for the elderly. It's hard work emotionally as well as physically!  I do not believe caregivers get enough credit!

It does seem that this Modelmayhem website is one of the few places one can post nudes on the Internet. There are not a lot of choices regarding such websites.  It is important that we should respect each others boundaries. It's sad that there are many who do not. Having worked with you once in 2011, my opinion of you is that you are an excellent model. I respect your comfort zones, I respect your boundaries and wish everyone would have respect.  If the opportunity came to work with you again, i would gladly hire you. 

You and  Elizabeth were able to experience the incredible natural beauty of the ranch I grew up on.  A wildfire burned the two old barns and the attached house to the ground along with so much else that we had on that ranch.  I know what it is like to suddenly lose family, home, work and many personal belongings. Fortunately I saved my greatest treasure which is my 40 years of photography along with my grandfathers work from the early 1900's. 

Now for your in bold statement of "CLEARLY SOMEONE LOOKING FOR AN ESCORT. THIS IS NOT A FINE ARTIST LOOKING FOR MODELS."  Yes, yes I think I get it!   Dea and the Beast received an email that she found revolting and wants us all to know that models like her get these sort of requests via email on a far too often basis.  So I suggested she block the sender, delete the email and move on. I'm sorry if that suggestion does not go over well.  It wasn't me who sent such an email in the first place.

These are open forums for everyone to express themselves. It's been rather dead in here for some time now and so it's wonderful that people are starting to post again. Maybe the censorship on Facebook is driving people away from posting there?  I appreciate that you and Dea the Beast are posting. 

We've had many rants on the forums in the past.  Models complaining about photographers and Photographers complaining about models. I have no complaints. Keeping it in the positive, I am happy just to be alive.  Let's keep this website forum active, shall we?

Model MoRina wrote:

Popcorn. Lots of popcorn.

And eyedrops, because you'll be rolling your eyes a lot and they'll probably dry out.

I LOVE POPCORN!    Pass the eyedrops, please?

Patrick Walberg wrote:

Many of us who have listed as photographers have also modeled before.  I'd think you could shoot photographs yourself, am I correct?  As a youngster I modeled, acted and sang before I picked up a camera.  Having experienced being on both sides of the lens is great for all involved in our industry. There are many here who do both modeling and photography. 

I don't envy you, nor believe you want sympathy at all.  I respect and appreciate you.

Please stop.

Your experience 40 years ago as a (I'm assuming here) male,
And EVERY WOMAN'S ONE THE FUCKING PLANET'S experience with harassment over the internet is not even in the same galaxy..

If you had a shred of fucking respect, Patrick,  you'd respect My OP, My opinion of the person on the other end of that email, and not spend days crawling after me in a thread ( that will be yet y'alls downfall if you carry on.. ), trying to come up with reasons why the email is harmless when it clearly is a thinly veiled attempt at something very shitty, namely Power exchange on set,  to which I will never agree..

Nat has explained it beautifully already.

If you cannot draw a conclusion by now, you're being obtuse.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
It's email.  Obviously not an offer you will respond to.   You block and move on.

You can take it or leave it.  Your choice.

Dea and the Beast wrote:
Please stop.

Your experience 40 years ago as a (I'm assuming here) male,
And EVERY WOMAN'S ONE THE FUCKING PLANET'S experience with harassment over the internet is not even in the same galaxy..

If you had a shred of fucking respect, Patrick,  you'd respect My OP, My opinion of the person on the other end of that email, and not spend days crawling after me in a thread ( that will be yet y'alls downfall if you carry on.. ), trying to come up with reasons why the email is harmless when it clearly is a thinly veiled attempt at something very shitty, namely Power exchange on set,  to which I will never agree..

Nat has explained it beautifully already.

If you cannot draw a conclusion by now, you're being obtuse.

Dea, you really should read your past messages with me. You are really a very kind person.

There is an  unread message for you, but it's typical for many of the models to take their time reading messages on this MM platform.  Best wishes!

So you got an email from someone who is not a photographer who asked you to pose nude.  You are right to block him and delete the email.  I would hope that every model on here would do the same.

Nat is a wonderful person!  You are too!  Best wishes!

Nat the droid wrote:
In my experience, there are a lot of "boundary pushers" who will lose interest in shooting something with me if I say I'm open to it. Generally the type to book for "standard art nudes" then show up and ask if they can try a brilliant idea they had and I keep my clothes on and they get naked.

There are a lot of "photographers" and such who get off on forcing someone to do something they KNOW the other person isn't comfortable with, and enjoy being at the winning end of the power dynamic.

I am open to shooting erotic work; I'm open to posing for artists that I know well in non-traditional ways that may be out of most people's comfort zones; but the key is consent.

Some people enjoy violating consent, even if it's a clothed shoot and the photographer just wants to adjust the garment really quick and knows you already said not to do that.

I'm slowly and steadily entering into my crone era, complete with walking stick to bang on the ground when students are texting or chatting during a pose or demonstrating that I do in fact know basic self defense when some absolute ass hat grabs me on a break to see if I know self defense and can get out of a hold. I now have another person on my list who is terrified of being face to face with me again.

"Nude model" is very often "person willing to do what I say for money" to some people. 🥴

This was why I finally just stopped answering emails from people that were clearly trying to push boundaries. I used to politely email them back and tell them that their concept was beyond what I shoot, and, without fail, they would argue with me. It's as  if they see you don't shoot that sort of content,  and you become a magnet for their gross emails.

If I even see "I like to push boundaries" on a profile that emails me (and the email does not specify they aren't looking to shoot that content with me), I delete the email now. And then you see posts here from photographers about why models don't answer emails. Pretty much all of us who are actively working answer emails from people who are respectful, doing decent work, and trying to hire us. Consistent complaints about no responses from models is a red flag the size of a circus tent.

Reading through this thread is incredible.

Liv Sage wrote:

This was why I finally just stopped answering emails from people that were clearly trying to push boundaries. I used to politely email them back and tell them that their concept was beyond what I shoot, and, without fail, they would argue with me. It's as  if they see you don't shoot that sort of content,  and you become a magnet for their gross emails.

If I even see "I like to push boundaries" on a profile that emails me (and the email does not specify they aren't looking to shoot that content with me), I delete the email now. And then you see posts here from photographers about why models don't answer emails. Pretty much all of us who are actively working answer emails from people who are respectful, doing decent work, and trying to hire us. Consistent complaints about no responses from models is a red flag the size of a circus tent.

Reading through this thread is incredible.

Thinking of my ex who should be 6,000 feet under because his approach to find new "models" was to message girls and barely legal women "Tell me a secret" on Tumblr as an opener!!!!! He's #1 on my Bagel Universe John Wick list!!!!!

Liv Sage wrote:
This was why I finally just stopped answering emails from people that were clearly trying to push boundaries. I used to politely email them back and tell them that their concept was beyond what I shoot, and, without fail, they would argue with me. It's as  if they see you don't shoot that sort of content,  and you become a magnet for their gross emails.

If I even see "I like to push boundaries" on a profile that emails me (and the email does not specify they aren't looking to shoot that content with me), I delete the email now. And then you see posts here from photographers about why models don't answer emails. Pretty much all of us who are actively working answer emails from people who are respectful, doing decent work, and trying to hire us. Consistent complaints about no responses from models is a red flag the size of a circus tent.

Reading through this thread is incredible.

The email that Dea and the Beast received was not from a photographer.  It was her choice as to what to do about it.  I suggested she block the person who sent it, delete it and move on.  None of us owe a response to any of the emails we receive at all.   Answering any emails that are respectful inquires for work is a very good thing to do.  People who constantly complain are the very people I try to stay away from.  I like what you wrote, as there are photographers and models here who do throw red flags as "big as circus tents" .. which should be fair warning to any of us.

Patrick Walberg wrote:

The email that Dea and the Beast received was not from a photographer.  It was her choice as to what to do about it.  I suggested she block the person who sent it, delete it and move on.  None of us owe a response to any of the emails we receive at all.   Answering any emails that are respectful inquires for work is a very good thing to do.  People who constantly complain are the very people I try to stay away from.  I like what you wrote, as there are photographers and models here who do throw red flags as "big as circus tents" .. which should be fair warning to any of us.

I wasn't looking for suggestions.

Dea and the Beast wrote:
I wasn't looking for suggestions.

I'm sorry that I misunderstood the purpose of your post. Was it a rant?

Hope you are  finding what you are looking for.

Honestly I meant no harm.  Hoping that you and Nat are okay.  Are you okay?  Best wishes!

Patrick Walberg wrote:

I'm sorry that I misunderstood the purpose of your post. Was it a rant?

Hope you are  finding what you are looking for.

Honestly I meant no harm.  Hoping that you and Nat are okay.  Are you okay?  Best wishes!

The thread 100% fulfilled its purpose. 

No need to follow me around any more.

kennethphotography wrote:
can you report them? because if they are not a photographer or in any other such field
why are they on here?

this site is for serious photographers/models/stylists. only not for hookups.

Her rant was about receiving an email from someone "not a photographer" but also someone likely not a member of this website.  Anyone can browse this website without being a member.  If someone has their email or outside links listed, then it's exposed to grifters browsing through.

This website is NOT a "dating site" or meant for "hook ups!"  The Internet is a great tool that allows us to communicate in real time around the World, but there are those who abuse it.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
No matter what, the person that approaches another has the responsibility to articulate their intentions clearly.  To do otherwise is to let- no, demand the other person use the sum of their experiences to fill in the blanks. 
.

Exactly. It's crazy that this sort of basic, unspoken norm of communication (and many more like it) appear to be disappearing.

This reminds me of the time I crashed my drone into an island, and was trying to get passers-by to go over to get it (it was not far, but I can't swim well), and found myself calling out "who wants to make an easy $200?"

Thankfully, I told this story to my wife, who explained the optics to me.

But seriously--it's giving way more of the benefit of the doubt than is due (in this case, none) to assume that the person who contacted OP wasn't dangerous. Self preservation trumps the misunderstanding.

Matt Hunter wrote:

Exactly. It's crazy that this sort of basic, unspoken norm of communication (and many more like it) appear to be disappearing.

This reminds me of the time I crashed my drone into an island, and was trying to get passers-by to go over to get it (it was not far, but I can't swim well), and found myself calling out "who wants to make an easy $200?"

Thankfully, I told this story to my wife, who explained the optics to me.

But seriously--it's giving way more of the benefit of the doubt than is due (in this case, none) to assume that the person who contacted OP wasn't dangerous. Self preservation trumps the misunderstanding.

Money changes everything .. so it seems?

Nat the droid wrote:
Thinking of my ex who should be 6,000 feet under because his approach to find new "models" was to message girls and barely legal women "Tell me a secret" on Tumblr as an opener!!!!! He's #1 on my Bagel Universe John Wick list!!!!!

I remember your ex. One of the few photographers who managed to find every single social media page I owned prior to my being a full time model. It was somewhat impressive if not so bizarrely creepy. A prime example of a guy you just have to outright ignore and preemptively block anytime you suspect he created a new profile.

Adventure Photos wrote:
So this guy is not a photographer.   Just wants to see her 'model'.  Maybe at that time, he just might want to take some cell phone pics to 'remember the model experience'.  But not a real camera or a photographer.  Just interested in sharing some quality time with 'a model' , naked of course.   No mention of a payment for her time and effort?   He must realize how much free time these 'models' all have to just trot over to his place and hang out naked, being a 'model' for the afternoon. Just some wine and chat time, eh?     Wonder how many real responses he has got so far.

Allegedly this was not a member on this website.  It's not that difficult to access most of the website without being a member or logged in. He or she finds a profile that has an email or a link and follows it until they make contact with their victim. 

Also we don't know from the original post if the person could have been an artist that paints and wanted to hire her for a sitting?  We'll never know.  However she followed her intuition on it.  I said the solution is to simply delete and block.  She did not take my advice well.  Perhaps she just wanted to rant?  Maybe to hear herself?  I don't know.  I came back on this website rather late on whatever game it is that I didn't understand the rules to.

Liv Sage wrote:

I remember your ex. One of the few photographers who managed to find every single social media page I owned prior to my being a full time model. It was somewhat impressive if not so bizarrely creepy. A prime example of a guy you just have to outright ignore and preemptively block anytime you suspect he created a new profile.

It is a sad fact of history in this largely misogynistic society that there are creeps, perverts, and stalkers.  Those types have been around long before the Internet was invented.  They've simply learned how to use it.  Fortunately they are in the minority.  Be cynical, and follow your instinct.  Try not to let that cause you to shut out the many more decent, caring people who are here though.  You can find your way.  Best wishes!