Patrick Shipstad wrote:
...Well what if I'm out in the middle of a parking lot with no metal around or place to drive a stake into the ground?

How are you using yours and what degree of grounding are you doing each time?

thanks.. you may save my life! (hehe)
patrick :-)

When I shoot in the middle of a parking lot I always carry a sirloin stake and just sit the Vagabond on top of it... seems to work fine.

Im'age NY (INY) wrote:
When I shoot in the middle of a parking lot I always carry a sirloin stake and just sit the Vagabond on top of it... seems to work fine.

Thank you, thank you.. he's here all week folks.. be sure to tip your waitress.

Patrick Shipstad wrote:

Thank you, thank you.. he's here all night folks.. be sure to tip your waitress.

(All week)

Patrick Shipstad wrote:

Thank you, thank you.. he's here all week folks.. be sure to tip your waitress.

OK… you want serious… I’ll give you serious (partially serious… I can’t do serious for extended periods of time).

In a corporate environment… anything produced for consumers and used incorrectly is open for lawsuits. The increased amount of warnings on products is the end result. Whether it’s “CAUTION HOTâ€? printed on a McDonalds coffee cup… or my favorite… an illustration on the side of a 5 gallon bucket of spackle, of a diapered baby falling head first into it (how many diapered babies do you see at construction sites)!

Yes… electrical equipment is dangerous so if you don’t sandbag your tripods and tape your wiring on locations there can be a situation. Use common sense and you will never see a label on the side of your Vagabond, of a naked model standing in a bathtub filled with water with the unit teetering on the edge… oh yes… and a diapered baby falling head first into the tub (I said partially serious from the get-go)!!!

Legacys 7 wrote:
Why don't you guys just go and buy a generator? I'm not buying a battery pack for my strobes. One of the reasons. You can only plug in so many and the ground issues that is being addressed.

A generator is safer and you can plug in more untis. I saw a generator at Home Depot for 399.00 that have two house hold plugs, socket for your laptop and cell phone, jumper cables for jumping the car and other features. The generator is the same size as a picnic cooler. Not that heavy at all and can work up to 7 hours on a gallon of gas. Plus it was approved by the fire department as safe and very quiet with a excellent muffler. It is called the Coleman.

I compared that to the battery pack that Calumet wants for over 500.00 that can only plug in two units. Man, I didn't even have think about which route to go. That's next on my list to have. Almost forgot, I also mentioned the generator because it has a circuit breaker.

If you're shooting out of your car, yeah that's great, but if you've got any distance to traverse, you better have some serious chump assistant to schlep that shit...

N8R Photography wrote:
If you're shooting out of your car, yeah that's great, but if you've got any distance to traverse, you better have some serious chump assistant to schlep that shit...

Why do you think why I said that it's light? It's not heavy. Man the generator doesn't way a ton. It has handles on the side to pick up. and put in the back of your trunk. Also, you know there is a such thing as a dolley. We use them in school.


One of the good things that I can that I've learned and am learning in school is knowing how to travel right when bringing things that you need. Dolly or something to carry your stuff on when doing location shoots. There are times that you can't get around certain things. The generator is compact, not heavy is a alot cheaper than a battery pack that might kill you because it's not grounded. I'll post the link.




Coleman Powermate
1,850 W Portable Recreational Generator

Model PM0401853
Price: $399.00/ea


I tried pasting the link from Home Depot, but it sends me to another page. Go to Home Depot's website and type in the generator, you'll what I'm talking about.

Legacys 7 wrote:

Why do you think why I said that it's light? It's not heavy. Man the generator doesn't way a ton. It has handles on the side to pick up. and put in the back of your trunk. Also, you know there is a such thing as a dolley. We use them in school.


One of the good things that I can that I've learned and am learning in school is knowing how to travel right when bringing things that you need. Dolly or something to carry your stuff on when doing location shoots. There are times that you can't get around certain things. The generator is compact, not heavy is a alot cheaper than a battery pack that might kill you because it's not grounded. I'll post the link.

70lbs is not heavy??  I'm a bigger puss than I thought!!  Shit I can barely bench the damn bar at the gym... Thanks for the info though.

N8R Photography wrote:

70lbs is not heavy??  I'm a bigger puss than I thought!!  Shit I can barely bench the damn bar at the gym... Thanks for the info though.

Damn,

you must not be a serious photographer. I'd hate see you if you had a paid assignment. And you needed to get a generator if you had no other options. 70 pounds aint shit. Man I work as a mover and lift more than that. I'm a skinny guy and 70 lb is nothing. But I also said that why make your job complicated. You use wheels man to carry any type of shit on location. I know this because I have to carry a load of stuff up the streets of San Francisco. There are no excuses when we do location shoots. You do what needs to be. But you also plan things in advanced.

70 lbs is damn light compared to the average generator. I picked the thing up in the store.

Marko Cecic-Karuzic wrote:
I hear Steve Meisel can curl 140 lbs with his left arm behind his back. And nobody knows how much Helmut Newton could lift because the gym didn't have enough free weights.

Yeah i heard that too. but I thought that it was a myth.

Legacys 7 wrote:

Damn,

you must not be a serious photographer. I'd hate see you if you had a paid assignment. And you needed to get a generator if you had no other options. 70 pounds aint shit. Man I work as a mover and lift more than that. I'm a skinny guy and 70 lb is nothing. But I also said that why make your job complicated. You use wheels man to carry any type of shit on location. I know this because I have to carry a load of stuff up the streets of San Francisco. There are no excuses when we do location shoots. You do what needs to be. But you also plan things in advanced.

70 lbs is damn light compared to the average generator. I picked the thing up in the store.

LMAOROTF....My photographic aptitude and desire is now based upon whether or not I can lift or rather whether I have the desire to lift 70lbs?  Shit, now I've heard it all.

N8R Photography wrote:
LMAOROTF....My photographic aptitude and desire is now based upon whether or not I can lift or rather whether I have the desire to lift 70lbs?  Shit, now I've heard it all.

LOL no kidding.

N8R Photography wrote:

LMAOROTF....My photographic aptitude and desire is now based upon whether or not I can lift or rather whether I have the desire to lift 70lbs?  Shit, now I've heard it all.

Nope,

you just heard your own shit. If you don't want to use a generator that is your call. But the big announcement wasn't necessary, because that is all that you have been doing is just talking loud.

Photographers use generator often via location. Yeah some are bigger than others. My pirmariy point was to make things easier on the photographers by addressing versality and saving more money. what that photographer decides to do is their choice. What may be a burden to you can be a blessing to others.

Legacys 7 wrote:
Why don't you guys just go and buy a generator? I'm not buying a battery pack for my strobes. One of the reasons. You can only plug in so many and the ground issues that is being addressed.

A generator is safer and you can plug in more untis. I saw a generator at Home Depot for 399.00 that have two house hold plugs, socket for your laptop and cell phone, jumper cables for jumping the car and other features. The generator is the same size as a picnic cooler. Not that heavy at all and can work up to 7 hours on a gallon of gas. Plus it was approved by the fire department as safe and very quiet with a excellent muffler. It is called the Coleman.

I compared that to the battery pack that Calumet wants for over 500.00 that can only plug in two units. Man, I didn't even have think about which route to go. That's next on my list to have. Almost forgot, I also mentioned the generator because it has a circuit breaker.

You are correct in that my Vagabond V300 can only operate so many lights.  I only own 4 lights and if I ever buy more than the other 16 that it will handle, I will certainly be screwed.

I also don't get the added bonus of listening to a generator.  The worst part is having a gas can that I will never get to use.

As far as grounding goes:  There is always something to ground your unit to.  If you are in the middle of a parking lot, there is a good chance that your car is close by.  Reach underneath and clip onto the frame.

Tony

Legacys 7 wrote:

Nope,

you just heard your own shit. If you don't want to use a generator that is your call. But the big announcement wasn't necessary, because that is all that you have been doing is just talking loud.

Photographers use generator often via location. Yeah some are bigger than others. My pirmariy point was to make things easier on the photographers by addressing versality and saving more money. what that photographer decides to do is their choice. What may be a burden to you can be a blessing to others.

I give, I give. All hail generators the saving grace of mankind and the only solution to location lighting.  You win, I'm a poser and a fool.  Peace out, I'm leaving and will not be responding anymore as this has gone far off topic.

SmartAz Photography wrote:

You are correct in that my Vagabond V300 can only operate so many lights.  I only own 4 lights and if I ever buy more than the other 16 that it will handle, I will certainly be screwed.

I also don't get the added bonus of listening to a generator.  The worst part is having a gas can that I will never get to use.

As far as grounding goes:  There is always something to ground your unit to.  If you are in the middle of a parking lot, there is a good chance that your car is close by.  Reach underneath and clip onto the frame.

Tony

Hi Tony,

that is the other reason why I addressed that this generator is very quiet and is recommended by the fire department as being safe and quiet. So no, sounds won't even be an issue here.

As for the grounding issue that one is stating a generator has like your battery pack, this is not the case with this generator. I got the info. talking to someone at the store about this. my only concerns like anything else is getting shocked from being in the rain. only a fool will do that.

N8R Photography wrote:

I give, I give. All hail generators the saving grace of mankind and the only solution to location lighting.  You win, I'm a poser and a fool.  Peace out, I'm leaving and will not be responding anymore as this has gone far off topic.

The topic only went far off topic because you chose that route. It's really sad when people like you who come on these forums, want to show boat and only see themself as being humble. Humble only comes after acting like a fool.

I didn't come with foolishness. i came with a suggestion and solution that I felt can resolve the poster's issues and concerns. He replied, but guess what? He didn't show his azz like you are trying to do.

Generators the solution? No. Generators another alternative? Yes. It's not that complicated to just reply without all of the sarcasim only to be heard. If you don't agree to what I suggest, that's cool and i respect that. But say it without trying to make a scene.

J. Welborn wrote:
*******As far as grounding goes:  There is always something to ground your unit to.  If you are in the middle of a parking lot, there is a good chance that your car is close by.  Reach underneath and clip onto the frame.

Tony********

Tony  --That would not be a ground because of the tires .

I don't use a generator or the rcommended Vagabond I just use a standard inverter  ( 1,000 Wt ) and hook it up to the battery and it works fine . I use it for a skill saw , my strobes , extra light , my computer and anything else i want to run on AC .
I do use a ground wire to " ground "though just to be safe . AC is AC and it will kill you regardless of how it is generated.

How much and where can I can get a inverter?

i see it on home depot. cool.

Jim Sharp wrote:
A generator has the same potential gounding problems as an inverter/battery setup unless you have a real earth ground attached to the 3rd wire of the ac circuit...

I also don't like the idea of running "dirty" power through my lights.  I would hate to repurchase a set of lights because a spike messed 'em up.

SmartAz Photography wrote:
I also don't like the idea of running "dirty" power through my lights.  I would hate to repurchase a set of lights because a spike messed 'em up.

understandable, but generators pretty much have a circuit breaker. If there is a overload, then it'll cut off. I have a photography book here, and they have a location setup outdoors on location. the setup is a large softbox, the samething that they use to lightup cars in the studio, it's just as big as the inside. On the side is a generator that is used to light up the softbox. the crew were shooting a car either early in the morning when sunrise or sunset. Again, generators are used often on location. but again, it's your choice to what you chose to use. I'm looking at that inverter that the poster uses. that's one hell of an idea.

SmartAz Photography wrote:
For the big jobs, I've definately used a generator in the past, but the Vagabond (which has a built in power inverter) does a great job -- and it powers up to 20 lights.

I stand corrected on the Grounding to the Car issue, yet finding a ground isn't really that hard.

The cool thing about this discussion is that is shows what some people use -- and has let me know that my car as a ground is a poor choice.

Jus' keep a rockin' wit' whatever you choose to do!
Tony

how much did the vegabond cost?

SmartAz Photography wrote:
I also don't like the idea of running "dirty" power through my lights.  I would hate to repurchase a set of lights because a spike messed 'em up.

Some of the inverters do have a pretty nasty looking waveform but the Vagabond claims to be true sine wave. Some of the generators aren't all that hot either though. The input transformer on the lights should clean the signal up pretty well but I understand your reservations.

I just wanted to address the grounding issue. Without a real earth ground the system is floating and without adequate precautions the potential for electrocution exists in either case...

Edit: one other thing. The OP mentioned the Vagabond and I suppose that would also include the item as sold by AB. It looks to be nothing special. Just a low cost imported inverter/battery setup being sold at a premium price. Yea, it's true sine wave and comes in a nice pack with a ground rod etc.

But I have to wonder if it's much better than many of the 300 watt inverter/gel cell setups available at many auto parts dealers for about $100..

J Merrill Images wrote:
Looks like there are a few things that need to be addressed here.

The Vagabond battery paks need to be grounded, as someone else said, because if there is a problem in one of your strobes, it may try to ground through you without one. The culprits in the strobes are the capacitors, which build up the high voltage charges required to fire the tubes. This is why the units need to be grounded regardless of power source.

The type of 12V to 115V power inverters that can be purchased in Walmart, etc. are not recommeded by most strobe manufacturers because they do not produce a pure sine wave. Strobes require a very clean power source at or near 60 hertz. These inverters also will not normally supply enough amperage to power most strobes, which can be expected to draw up to 8 amps most of the time and up to 18 amps peak.

Grounding via rods, etc will work fine but some caution should be exercised as to the quality of the ground - just sticking something an inch or so in the ground may not be sufficient. Copper grounding rods can be easily purchased at local home supply stores inexpensively.  Water pipe connectors can also be purchased for tying a ground wire to a pipe. Although I am not an electrician, I would offer a mildly educated guess that an excessive wire length from voltage/amperage source to ground might result in a high level of resistance. I am guessing that there could be some tendancy in this case for the charge to try to ground through the person anyway. If there are electricians here and I am wrong - please correct me as I am just trying to err towards safety if it is indeed a factor.

Grounding to an automobile will not work either because the vehicle is not truly grounded - the rubber tires prevent that.

I too am contemplating the use of a portable generator for powering my strobes on location shoots. There is, however, an important consideration. These generators are typically voltage regulated by rpm setting alone - that is why there is no throttle on the generators and the rpm is preset. Strobes need constant voltage within a fairly narrow range also. I am looking at two possibilities to deal with this - an Acoustic Research power conditioner (available at BestBuy) and TrippLight power conditioners. The AR units are relatively inexpensive (about $60 for a 15 amp/5100 joule unit) and the TrippLights cost much more at about $200 to $400, depending on the model. The power conditioners are a good idea because they provide smooth power and protect against both drops and spikes in power - both of which cause problems. Remember also that it is just as important to ground the generator.

Onre additional factor that is sort of off topic here is the issue of electronic noise because strobes don't like that either. If you have ever noticed your strobes firing randomly, it may be because of electronic noise and nearby fluorescent lights are often the cause of the problem. The AR power conditioners include noise filtration and may provide benefit no matter what the power source.

Hope this helps in the discussion.

yes it does help.

Legacys 7 wrote:
Why don't you guys just go and buy a generator? I'm not buying a battery pack for my strobes. One of the reasons. You can only plug in so many and the ground issues that is being addressed.

A generator is safer and you can plug in more untis. I saw a generator at Home Depot for 399.00 that have two house hold plugs, socket for your laptop and cell phone, jumper cables for jumping the car and other features. The generator is the same size as a picnic cooler. Not that heavy at all and can work up to 7 hours on a gallon of gas. Plus it was approved by the fire department as safe and very quiet with a excellent muffler. It is called the Coleman.

I compared that to the battery pack that Calumet wants for over 500.00 that can only plug in two units. Man, I didn't even have think about which route to go. That's next on my list to have. Almost forgot, I also mentioned the generator because it has a circuit breaker.

Would love to see you check a thing like this at the local airport, or pack it in your luggage..

The Vegabound will power more then 1 strobe. And I know personally, the 150 system can and will let you shoot all day with a 1600..

As for paid gigs, what world do you live on.. It's almost never about gear, but the results you can produce..

J Merrill Images wrote:
The type of 12V to 115V power inverters that can be purchased in Walmart, etc. are not recommeded by most strobe manufacturers because they do not produce a pure sine wave. Strobes require a very clean power source at or near 60 hertz. These inverters also will not normally supply enough amperage to power most strobes, which can be expected to draw up to 8 amps most of the time and up to 18 amps peak.

Ok.  [Elec. Engineer hat on]Strobes actually do not require "clean" power, if you mean clean as in noise-free.  It is also not very frequency sensitive and household outlet is more than stable enough for strobes (typical tolerance for household power frequency variation is about 1Hz/day).  But most inverters simply cannot supply the current.

Although I am not an electrician, I would offer a mildly educated guess that an excessive wire length from voltage/amperage source to ground might result in a high level of resistance. I am guessing that there could be some tendancy in this case for the charge to try to ground through the person anyway. If there are electricians here and I am wrong - please correct me as I am just trying to err towards safety if it is indeed a factor.

No sir, from one side of your hand to the other side of your body is in Mohm, even a long wire will have less than you by a few thousand times.  Depending on what you mean by "excessive", though.  If you are just talking about tens of meters, the resistance is negligible.

Grounding to an automobile will not work either because the vehicle is not truly grounded - the rubber tires prevent that.

It depends.  Your vehicle is a large chunk of metal and can hold a lot of charges.  It is much better than grounding to nothing at all.

Strobes need constant voltage within a fairly narrow range also. I am looking at two possibilities to deal with this - an Acoustic Research power conditioner (available at BestBuy) and TrippLight power conditioners. The AR units are relatively inexpensive (about $60 for a 15 amp/5100 joule unit) and the TrippLights cost much more at about $200 to $400, depending on the model. The power conditioners are a good idea because they provide smooth power and protect against both drops and spikes in power - both of which cause problems.

Strobes do not need that accurate constant voltage (although it's preferable), it's not that sensitive to household fluctuations.  Surges aren't that harmful to strobes either, in comparison to things driven by microelectronics (like computers).  Having protection is always good, though.  However, the instantaneous current draw at the beginning of the recharging step of your strobe can go way above 15amps (depending on your strobe design).  The TrippLite etc are not designed for these applications.  An extension cord with surge protection would do the trick, you don't need power conditioning for strobes.

Onre additional factor that is sort of off topic here is the issue of electronic noise because strobes don't like that either. If you have ever noticed your strobes firing randomly, it may be because of electronic noise and nearby fluorescent lights are often the cause of the problem. The AR power conditioners include noise filtration and may provide benefit no matter what the power source.

Noise.  Strobes generally don't care about noise, especially if the regulation is well designed.  Noise is AC, strobes work on DC (at the flash point).  Your noise would have to be insanely high to trigger the flash.  And if that's the case, your strobes have more problem than your powerline.  It shouldn't pick up that kind of noise to affect its operation in that way.

Hope this helps.  [EE hat off]

Lund Photography wrote:
Would love to see you check a thing like this at the local airport, or pack it in your luggage..

The Vegabound will power more then 1 strobe. And I know personally, the 150 system can and will let you shoot all day with a 1600..

As for paid gigs, what world do you live on.. It's almost never about gear, but the results you can produce..

Look smart azz bastard.. Let's just talk photography. If you don't agree with me, fine. I don't have a problem with disagreements and different suggestions. It's sad when people like you can't come with something outside of wanting to just show off so that you think that you are impressing others.

Also, did you ever take into consideration that when I was talking about location, I wasn't talking about flying on a jet or plane with a generator? Damn, what planet do you live on? It's not earth. Btw, don't run that its almost never about the gear rubbish on me. Sometime it is about the gear that will give you the results that you need. Not someone who thinks that he is Whodini like yourself and presto, I got the perfect picture in pitch black dark with no light at all. Point, no shit it's about the results that you can produce. Man I am in a lighting location class and my instructor does this for a living,  and there's nothing that you can sit here and type up trying to tell me that you won't and don't need this or that when on location. You don't know what is needed until you see the location. And sometimes you can't sacrafice somethings to get those good 'results' that you try your best to explain without some equiptment that will be a neccessity. So that last statement of yours is irrelevant to this topic.

It may work depending upon what flash equipment you are using and how much surge it can take. After you first fire a strobe the capacitor banks look like a short circuit to the power supply where there is a tremendous inrush of current to charge them back up. If you are running off AC mains power this is typically not a problem unless it is on an under-fused circuit. I have blown my circuit breaker many times with my old Speedotron pack when set to fast recharge rate. Anyway this inrush of current most likely will cause your inverter to produce a distorted waveform which will cause even more current to be drawn due to increased powerfactor. It would most likely shut the inverter down to protect itself.

Most cheap inverters are not meant to provide high surge currents. They also produce a modified sine wave instead of a true sine wave which in some circuits will cause excess current flow and component heating. It may be alright for your flash and then again it may not and could cause damage to the power supply section in your flash unit. Sometimes it is better to pay a bit more to get something that the manufacturer recommends, to play it safe and not have any problems. In particular if you equipment is covered under any sort of warranty you would not want to risk a cheap power supply. If you are using your lights for profit then it becomes a no brainer. You don't want things blowing up on a shoot, the lost revenue and possible loss of future work will cost you more then the proper power supply.

I would get an OK from the flash manufacturer before I used a cheaper unit.

Phil