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Law enforcement shakes me down!
We're always hearing about how photographers are getting harrassed by local law enforcement. And people talk about what dicks they are, etc. I have only had TWO previous encounters. The first time was actually just a lifeguard letting me know that I am supposed to have a permit and then said he never saw and bid us good day. The next time we were shooting ON a lifeguard tower and the Hermosa Beach Police drove up and asked us what we were doing and then told us to hurry because we're not supposed to be up there. Now last night I'm at my usual spot in Dana Point. Where I have shot for over two years having never been approached. Everything is going fine. The sun is down and we're finishing up. This model does covered nudes (implied) and she did have her top off. I see headlights (not hers) from his little quad cycle coming down the road near the beach and I wondered if he was coming for a closer look. Sure enough, just as I snap my last frame (filling up my 2nd 2Gb CF card) he's stopped right next to us. Usually I am completely ignored as they drive by but he stopped. Here it goes, I'm BUSTED!! The sherriff deputy politely explained that we are more than welcome to continue taking photos and having fun, but that the girl is going to have to keep her top on. He continued, politely, to tell us we were on a public beach and that nudity MAY offend someone. Because of that, unless we have an area that is sectioned off, we can't shoot nudes. I responded that I understood, apologized, and since we were done, packed up our things and left. My mistake? I should have asked what we need to do to have part of the beach sectioned off...but I suspect that will cost a lot of money and nudes are certainly not important to me to care. But I still regret not asking some questions. Not once did he ask who we were. Not once did he ask for ID. Not once did he ask for a permit. He was very polite. I suspect the only reason he came over was for two possible scenarios. #1 Someone that saw us complained as they walked by his location. #2 He was covering his butt knowing that we were doing something not allowed and had he not done anything and someone complained, maybe he'd get into trouble for non-action. My conclusion? I suspect at least 50% of the problems photographers are having with law enforcement is because they are dicks. Not the law enforcement people, but the photographers. Because as soon as they are told they can't do something, they start ranting about rights, blah blah blah. So the cops get defensive and everything snowballs. it's not worth it folks! Just be POLITE. If it's going to be a major inconvenience for you to stop shooting, I'd recommend you have all your ducks in order (documentation, permits, etc) and be ready to present them. And do it politely. Don't be a dick. Aug 10 07 06:25 pm Link See told you it was Chris  Aug 10 07 06:26 pm Link What the Sam Hill is going on around here?!? Aug 10 07 06:28 pm Link Christopher Hartman wrote: I would say that % is higher. Aug 10 07 06:29 pm Link Irene wrote: wtf?! how did you find the other thread? I had it book marked and several people found it...plus, it didn't say who posted it, just a red X, hahaha! Aug 10 07 06:29 pm Link Sagelike Photography wrote: I almost wrote 75% but decided to be nice. Aug 10 07 06:30 pm Link Christopher Hartman wrote: It was on the main page hun...IDK....I opened it didn't read it...saw your comment [reserved] then I posted. When I actually read the ghost post, I knew it was you, because we talked about it yesterday Aug 10 07 06:32 pm Link Generally true but when the cops ARE dicks it really stands out and is a PITA to deal with. Aug 10 07 06:32 pm Link well he was nice because he knew we were still pointing out the extra toe a bikini beach chick has in one of the pictures you posted. He just fealt sorry. Aug 10 07 06:33 pm Link You omitted #3 A seminude babe..... God bless Cal cops ...... In my area I'd be making my one phone call for bail Aug 10 07 06:34 pm Link bad, bad you should of know your not supposed to do that in public = 0 Aug 10 07 06:34 pm Link Blanca Castellanos wrote: But she always takes her top off. Aug 10 07 06:37 pm Link Chris I would have locked your ass up and took your model home with me. Aug 10 07 06:37 pm Link Seems like you handled the situation the right way. Like Dalton says. "be nice". I have noticed though alot on places have regs regarding use of public funded facilities being used for commercial purposes. Aug 10 07 06:38 pm Link Christopher Hartman wrote: Now I finally agree with you. Aug 10 07 06:38 pm Link well i deal with the police almost on a daily baces . well yes some of them are pricks BUT i like to say that MOST are cool. if i have a problem i call and ask for a supervisor and most of the time get things worked out. it has been the just out of the academy or are new to the area but things get smoothed over. This is for the VA State Police, Waynesboro and Staunton all of them are generally ez to work with and are plsent. The Augusta Co. Sheriff Dep. well that is a nether story all to gather. GRRRRR i just wanting to get my ass kicked by a deputy and i carry a camera that records video and sound to pertect my ass when there working a seen. Aug 10 07 06:39 pm Link JSmith - Photographer wrote: if you knew who she was, I think you'd shoot me and dispose of the body to avoid the paper work. Aug 10 07 06:39 pm Link Christopher Hartman wrote: Paris? Haha Aug 10 07 06:41 pm Link JSmith - Photographer wrote: Oops, I left out a word. I meant shoot me! Aug 10 07 06:47 pm Link Christopher Hartman wrote: JSmith - Photographer wrote: haha Aug 10 07 06:55 pm Link I believe this is not applicable to the photography world, but in "real life" too. Aug 10 07 06:58 pm Link It's always smart to be polite when talking to the police in any situation. Aug 10 07 07:16 pm Link I was shooting in Church Street Station in Orlando this past weekend and I had my model climb up the side of this comedy club and get on the roof! A security guard saw and started slowing walking towards us...I snapped my last frame as quickly as I could, put on a huge smile and explained that we were completed and leaving. He smiled back and said no problem and left us alone! I couldn't have been more relieved. I have to agree - I think that as long as you are nice you can avoid a ton of problems. Aug 10 07 08:35 pm Link I've been approached by police several times when I did not have a permit. (I usually have one on larger shoots) I've never had them cause a problem and don't have bad experiences to report. Many of the problems I hear are from photographers that have gotten an attitude because "I have a right to be here, dammit!" and "This is just the man trying to censor my art, dammit!" I think an attitude is contagious, good or bad. I like the story about dueling headlights. ;P D Aug 10 07 08:48 pm Link Christopher Hartman wrote: Yeah, with LEO ALWAYS start super polite and cooperative and listen to what they have to say and see if they're going to be jerks or not. You can always become a jerk later if it makes sense, but if you start being a jerk a) it's hard to go back and b) you set off all of the cop's buttons. Aug 10 07 08:58 pm Link Well handled. If you are going to get an attitude, get it in the courtroom (if ever)...those policemen, for the most part, are just trying to keep things stable. Yes, there are the odd whackos, but look at how many nutcases they have to deal with ! Aug 10 07 09:02 pm Link count your blessings and move to a new area to shoot, it sounds like you are well through your nine lives and its gonna catch up with you Aug 10 07 09:03 pm Link JSmith - Photographer wrote: damn! dude! Can't you find your OWN woman? That's kinda drastic!! Aug 10 07 09:11 pm Link bubbaclicks wrote: I disagree. I will continue to shoot there. The girls will just have to stop trying to get naked. Aug 10 07 09:26 pm Link San Francisco Nudes wrote: Christopher Hartman wrote: So true Aug 10 07 09:56 pm Link I agree completely with the OP. I have a number of friends in Law Enforcement back in NY. Here's a paraphrased story that one told me: He was assigned to a sector in which there was a park that he patrolled. As he drove in, he noticed a car parked on the side of the road on the grass in violation of a "no parking" sign. He got out, located the owner of the car, and asked him to move his car since he was in a no parking zone. The owner became belligerent with the usual jokes about doughnuts and a tirade about how he should be out dealing with "real crimes". The owner was asked nicely again to move his car and told that if he didn't, that he'd get a citation. The owner told him he'd move it when he was ready to. So, he walks back to the car, writes a parking ticket, then begins walking around the car. Hmm.. Busted taillight. Hmmm.. Cracks in the windshield - just a hair too long. Hmm, windows tinted a shade too dark.. So the owner comes back, and gets handed just the parking ticket, which he proceeds to rip in half and toss to the ground with a sneer about how the $25 or (whatever it was) was too little for him to bother with. My friend then writes him a citation for littering - $100, if I recall correctly. Now the owner is pissed, gets in his car, and starts to drive away when he's commanded to HALT! He then gets moving violations for the windshield, taillight, and window tint. Total cost if he'd cooperated: 1 minute of his time. Total cost since he was a dick: $600, plus whatever he lost taking time off work to go to court, if he did. There was a book published a long time ago called, "A Speeder's Guide to Avoiding Tickets" that was written by a retired NYS Trooper. It could just as well be subtitled, "The Psychology of Dealing With Police" as it gave a lot of insight as to how your behavior directly affects the outcome of your encounter. http://www.amazon.com/Speeders-Guide-Av … 620&sr=8-1 I'd recommend it for those of you who either A) speed or B) need anger mange....errr.. help controlling your emotions. Aug 10 07 11:41 pm Link Hard to believe sometimes... Being nice actually worked out! You handled that right, and if more of us were nice about it, there would probably be fewer problems. Just my $.02 from a nice photographer as well. Aug 10 07 11:45 pm Link I think you have proven once again that if you act like an adult without attitude you get treated like one. Cops deal with a lot of people that are dicks and they are used to taking control and hadling the situation. When they see people who are not dicks they are happy they have one less situation that causes then ag, paperwork and a possible court appearance Aug 10 07 11:45 pm Link The same is true for a lot of things in this industry. I have 2 contrasting examples... I model I hired way back in the day asked me politely to take down a nude image of hers that was still floating around. She had signed a release. But because she asked nicely, I took it down. Contrast that w/ another model. Again, this was a hire job doing nude work. She immediately asks me to yank it because she didn't like it. Had she stopped there I probably would've grudgingly yanked it because its one of my favorite images (not to mention it made the all-SUNY show, or so my professor tells me). But then she goes on to berate me, calling me a lousey photographer, called my professor a drunk, even attacked people that liked the image. I tried to keep calm, explaining her John Hancock on the release, that her signature on the release plus the payment given for the shoot forfeits her editorial rights to the image, even offered a buyout of the image at a significant loss. As expected, I was "crazy", an asshole, etc, etc. To this day, the more she bitches the longer it stays up on my other port site. Moral of the story, give the person the benefit of the doubt at start off nice. The person might surprise you. Aug 11 07 01:03 am Link I don't think anything can be generalized. But my experience has been markedly different. I am a nice person, soft-spoken and excessively polite; that's just how I was brought up. About four years ago, I have been pulled over for having a blonde girlfriend in the car (I was not speeding nor had any offenses). I was pulled out of the car at gun point, without questioning (I didn't even get to talk). I followed all orders, and was thrown on the hot hood of my car (under Central California sun, 100F outside that day), handcuffed. The cop went over to my then girlfriend and asked if she was being kidnapped. All because I was an Asian guy, having a blonde in the car. At that point, I still haven't said anything other than telling him (even politely at that point, "Officer, could you please help me up, this hood is really hot".), that the car hood was hurting me. My blonde told him to leave, he refused, and insisted that "you are safe, ma'am, you can tell me the truth". At which point she told him to disappear, and leave me alone. I ended with 1st degree burn on both of my arms for a few days, and a ruined day out. I have the girl as a witness for the ordeal, and was advised by the lawyer not to sue that particular police department, because "you would be in even deeper trouble". I was so impressed by the girl's calm, I bought her roses for a week. Was I being a jerk? I was even polite while I was being burned. Did it help? No. Do I have respect for that particular cop? Not at all. Does he deserve respect? No. Respect is earned. I have other stories; all of them have witnesses on my demeanor, and none of them understood why I was treated badly at all. That said, these incidents have nothing to do with photography, just general abuses. Aug 11 07 02:44 am Link I have a model friend who was doing a shoot at the beach (in a State Park) and yes she was doing nudes......and 1-1/2 hours into the shoot the State Ranger comes down and confronts them.....he has been watching for a full hour....(pervert) and wrote a ticket.....can you guess who got the ticket ? ....not the photographer... her fine was $240.00 and he didn't offer to split the fine !!!!! So if your going to do nudes on the beach it might be advisable to have a lookout with a good pair of walkie-talkies..... Aug 11 07 02:54 am Link lll wrote: My daughters boyfriend is in college in Tennessee and they are both stopped Aug 11 07 03:04 am Link Harry Forsythe wrote: That' sbecause it's not illegal to shoot nude photos in public, but it sure is (at least in many places) illegal to BE nude in public. Unless the photographer was nude as well, the photographer isn't committing the offense, and therefore isn't cited. Aug 11 07 03:09 am Link I was imprisoned, then released because I had a model in the car with me. I was driving through south texas with a model from CA. We were there to shoot a segment of a movie. She was my PA for the weekend. We had driven everywhere that weekend. On our way to the airport I decided to take a different highway back to Corpus Christi. We had already driven the other highway too many times and I wanted to see the rest of the South Texas Outback. So, there we were...driving along listening to CD's and we drove into the border patrol checkpoint. I rolled down the window and the officer looked inside and asked the model what nationality she was. She said she was born in Cambodia. He looked at his flashlight and asked me to pull into a parking stall next to the building. Then we were ordered to get out of the vehicle and follow him into the station. Once we were inside we were put in the holding cell along with all of the illegal aliens and we were told there would be a 3 to 4 hour wait while they got clearance for us to pass through the checkpoint. There were about 75 illegals in that cell waiting with us. The model and I stood there wondering what the heck was going on. Soon an officer entered the cell and asked us some questions about our purpose for being in South texas. I explained that we were there to shoot a movie segment and that the girl was a professional model. The officer took every piece of ID we had and went out. Leaving us in that cell. Suddenly I had to use the toilet really really bad. There was a toilet at the other end of the cell. but no walls around it. Just a toilet...Soooo embarrassing...There I was hanging it all out for 75 people and the model to observe. But no choice...I sooooo had to go.... A few minutes later the officer returned and asked to see my business card. Well.....I told him the model had my cards in her bag and he could see the card if he would let her go get it. The card was actually her comp card. He followed the model to the car, she handed him the card and he just stood there and starred at it for a long long long time. Suddenly he asked for her autograph. Of course, she signed it for him. She followed him back into the station and stood there while he showed the comp card to the other officers in the office. Suddenly they started asking for a copy for themself....heheheheheh Well, she ended up handing out comp cards to every officer there, except the female officer. 5 minutes later the same officer entered the cell and invited me to have lunch with him and the other officers in the break room. Of course we enjoyed the barbecue burgers, cokes and chips fresh off the barbecue. Soooo yummy!!! They handed back all the ID and escorted us back to our car. shook her hand and bid us farewell and safe journey. 3 hours became only 30 minutes delay after the officers saw my models comp card. So, I am a firm believer in carrying your comp card at all times. AHAHAHAHAH If I had gotten angry at the officers we would probably still be sitting in that cell using that steel can at the other end while everybody starred at us. Aug 11 07 03:12 am Link Shake down?!? No. Handcuffs in the back of a car is a shakedown. Gear confiscated, is a shakedown. What you had was a polite encounter with law enforcement, and them seem pretty easy going. Aug 11 07 03:16 am Link |
