No, really, you do not want a CD of every image I shot.

Seriously, stop asking, you're not going to get it.

Yeah, I'm not even concerned if you paid for the shoot... even clients don't get every image shot.

Here's the long and short of it and my personal reasons behind it: (disclaimer: these are my personal reasons... see my portfolio bio for who I am and my range of expertise... also see other posters to the thread for their professional opinions on this subject)

No, really you do not want a CD of every image that I shot.  Here's my personal process (which matches the process of a large portion of experienced photographers) --- We go through the Rough Edit which is a simple flagging or marking of the good images... the ones that aren't blinks or flubs or cropped wrong or against our sensibilities in some sort of way this gives us the Selects.  The Selects are sent to the client... be that you as a model or some art director or creative director of some corporation.  The Selects are narrowed down by the client and those go in to Retouching.  Retouching is the part of the process where we remove that unsightly blemish from your forehead or smooth a stray wrinkle in your clothing in Photoshop or some other photo editing program... we may do some other things to the image as well... but the images that are the product of this phase are the Final Images.  Now final images is a bit misleading, since I've had clients send things back to me and ask for specific changes... final images just means that we as photographers are happy with what we're giving you and we consider them ready to post or use in whatever manner we agreed to you using them.

Why is the process this way? Well this gets in to a bit more of the philosophical.  Personally I've adopted this process both from experience assisting other photographers, but also philosophically.  Not being one to stick with things the way they are just because they are that way, I questioned the wisdom of this process early in my career, and learned the hard way why it is the way it is.  Photographers in general are an artistic lot... and we pride ourselves on our ability to create an image... creating the correct image is our job, and our job alone.  Having access to a full set of images takes part of the process out of our hands, and thus negates our work and our style.  Some of us even will take even more of the process above out of everyone else's hands by only giving out final images.  At any rate, the art or imagery being created is the domain of the photographer and the artistry or skill of the photographer alone.  Too many hands in the process and the artistry is no longer the photographer's, but it is rather a collaboration and many of us don't want that.

Now as a model... you can choose to accept these reasons and the conditions they create or not accept them, but most self respecting photographers are going to demand to at least have control through the rough edit process.   Certainly you can find photographers who will give you *all* images from the shoot... you may even find some really good photographers who will give you *all* images from the shoot.  The really good ones will do so because they only click when they know for fact everything is just right.  The others... well... they just don't care that much about the work they're giving you, so they're just giving it to you.  Most photographers who take pride in their work will want control over the editorial process however... and that... believe it or not... is a good thing.

As with anything in this business it is your decision who to work with and how you work with them.  Photographers can and sometimes *do* choose to let all images out on CD... Models can and sometimes *do* choose to only work with those who will give all images on a cd.  I simply provide this advice as a caution... you may not be looking for what you're getting when you get all the images on a cd.

here here! I agree totally! and i'll be taking that advice so thank you.

if i take maybe 100 images, ill narrow it down to maybe ten and that's it. i dont really want my ....to be frank...awful captures....to be hijacked and leaked.they  are going in the bin!

Well said. I equate a photoshoot just like an author writing a novel. He does not publish the very first works he types out.(the shoot) He edits each and every page, for typo's, spelling, grammar, content.(the post production)   Then before he publishes his novel, he sends it to an editor who may further, cut and refine aspect.(the models, choice for retouching)  Then when everyone is finally happy, its printed.  It really doesn't do anyone any good to waste time sending shots of blinking eyes or squinting eyes, or blurred focuses. No one is perfect each and every shot photographers or models.

Everyone starts somewhere, and learns what's acceptable to themselves; sets up their own style and business procedures. The client accepts this or keeps looking.

What I usually do is give the models a preview disc right after the shoot with all the images in a low-res small file size/small image size format with a Digimarc and a stamp placed prominently on the image.
Like so:


I often don't have the luxury of going over all the images immediately with the model.  She can use the previews to pick her faves, and also to see what worked & what didn't work on a shoot on her end & on mine.

I did a group set recently where a problem developed with my camera part way through the shoot that wasn't apparent during shooting.  Rather than just telling the models "Sorry, 1/3 of the shots came out bad" they could see for themselves.

My usage agreement & release both include language to indicate that they're not allowed to alter or edit the images in any way, and that the proofs are not to be posted anywhere public without my approval.

So far this has worked out pretty well for me.

Please note this is on TRADE shoots only.  Paid shots either way are handled differently but in NO case does anyone get large or high res images handed to them.

Gotta agree, very rarely if at all someone will get every image shot...I only did that once this year for a model who I'd admit was better than me at editing images, and we treated it as a callabo effort to put out the best stuff and it worked very well.  I knew her work beforehand, so I respected her not only as a model but as an artist similar to myself.... But if my wedding clients which pay thousands of dollars for my services don't receive every image shot....nuff said...I run a pretty similar process as you mentioned and it has worked pretty good for me...I loves my Lightroom:)

Frankly I do not want every image shot.  I really want only the best ones, and maaaybe a few shots of every look, just a variety for me to pick from.  Sometimes I like picking what I think are the best shots, and sometimes I'm perfectly happy to let the photographer do the picking.   But the very last thing I want is a cd full of every damn image.

If a model was insistent about getting a CD right after the shoot, I might have to use film

paid or free you wont !
even a client
why the hell i will give picts i do not approve with my name on it
and remember , i told you
tb

I very rarely get them all, I'll get a cd of the shots ocassionally just to see if I have a specific fave. However, usually they upload the selected few onto a site and tell me to pick my fave from each set, I usually pick 2-4. Models should be the same way we don't want ugly shots, bland shots, or just not right shots so why do we need every photo? I just want to see a choice of images and then get a slect edited few that are THE BEST

I agree totally...

From my profile:

-------------
Ansel Adams said, "Twelve significant photographs in any one year is a good crop." 
Please don't ask for or expect a copy of all the photos we take. You don't need forty shots in the same outfit.  We'll both have input into which are the best.
-------------

I put the selects onto web pages in low-res form with little or no post-processing. Then the model has the opportunity to pick a few faves.  There is absolutely no way I would turn over all the images. I have some pride in my work.

I totally agree.   I don't give the whole shoot either. Our images are part of our reputation; If an image is not up to my quality standards, I don't want it out there.

I agree too.

I wonder if the models also want the shots of the GM/WhiBal card, the occasional shot of my shoes/sky/background, or every shot where she blinks.

I wonder if they even consider that we are associating our names with this work, so we want only the best images possible?

I wish there was a way for Lightroom to read my mind when I'm running through a shoot in XY mode and selecting images.

"shadows wrong... eyes look uneven... clothing wrinkle... ahh, a keeper..." and so on.

Then they'd maybe understand why, of the dozen shots that look nearly identical as thumbnails, only 1 gets picked.

Of course, one thing that some models don't expect is to suffer decision paralysis (too many similar choices) because they have different decision criteria than a photographer might.

My 2 cents.
N.

I have never understood why a typical model would expect or want a CD of all images from a shoot. This makes no sense to me. Unusable shots (lighting tests, lighting misfires, blinks, odd facial expressions, etc.) serve no benefit to the anyone. Beyond that, what good do unretouched images do for the model's portfolio?

The only time a model may need an unretouched image for his/her book is if it is for an agency (typical makeup-free headshot and body shot), and the model should relay this to the photographer prior to the shoot. Beyond that, your portfolio is only as polished as the images it contains.

Even when I am the retoucher for a shoot, I expect the unusable shots to be removed, prior to receiving them from the photographer, as they serve no purpose. What a model would want them for is completely beyond me.

Oh that web content mentality.....

At best, only 3 images from a theme should be the educational understanding of models. A head shot and 3/4 for beauty and full length for the theme. Unless it's editorial theme/storyline shoot.

Models and photographers should grasp the understanding of what ONE image is worth, but Suzy the web model has created the web content theory over to the real industry.

Once we start to get back to creating a worthy image, then we can fully re-educate society.

J T

one photographer in my area gives only one print.

Seriously, Every shot?  He's right. If you send a client a bad shot they'll probably use it, so will a model.  I only promise the finished work.  If I shoot 1000 frames, you might get 50 of them, and that's on a good day, and that's more than you will ever need from one sitting.

Models need to understand that photography isn't just about the shoot, it's the edit, the touch-up, that takes the real time.

I never send out a shot I'm not proud of, to anyone.

I only want 1-5 images. I'll probably only use 1 or 2 in my port anyways. I'm more than happy to let the photographer pick which ones he/she retouches.

If you want a "hard to work with" label, demand every shot on a CD.

What you should get out of a TF* is five to ten retouched shots suitable for the web, and either prints or five good high resolution files that you can use to print 8x10's.

Good presentation, James.  Thanks for posting it, and for being willing to give new models the benefit of your experience.

Amen! Although I am still in a phase of my photography where I give out unedited shots as well as retouched shots, I always narrow it down ALOT before I let the client pick their favorites.

CAM ......CAM  make this a stickey on the model forum.

** Moderator Note **

This thread was started 7 months ago.

Just FYI.

Leo - Moderator

This is one of the reason I prefer to pay an hourly rate and not bargain prints for time or CD.

My release/contract is very clear that I own the copyright and the images may be sold commercially and will not be given away. 99% of the models I have worked with accept and have had no issues. Depending on the circumstance I will make available a low res jpeg that a model can use on a web site.

if a model wants all the images from a shoot...and you want to work with her..you might have to give them to her....

Agree... even wedding gigs, the client doesn't get every image I shoot.
You can see proofs, you can tell me what you like, even then you likely won't see everything I shot either. If it doesn't meet my quality standards, it doesn't go out.

I had a very avid interest in getting the full cd when I was a beginning model, but that was just to improve my modeling skills, see which poses, expressions, and outfits worked best on me but at the time I was working with good friends, so it wasn't really an issue and they knew why I was interested in getting the full cd

granted i was NOT interested in a cd with the weird blinks, turns away from the camera and overall just unprepared for the shot kind of pictures....

just a thought for some of you wondering why someone would WANT the full cd to begin with.

Totaly agree with the O.P.
Thanks

I don't know if this sounds harsh or not, but..... In my opinion, if they demand a CD, it probably means they don't trust you.

If they don't trust you, it's because you haven't qualified yourself as a legit photographer with sound judgement.

Qualifying yourself should take place before the shoot takes place.

and another thing to consider: In a TF_ arrangement, you're creating two portfolios. One to showcase the photographer's abilities and one to showcase the model's abilities. One photo that looks great in a photographer's portfolio might have no value to a model.