|
Forums >
Photography Talk >
So tell me some about Beauty Dishes and grids ?
This is from the Post ask your questions here. https://www.modelmayhem.com/p.php?thread_id=252362 This is an open thread for all to voice answers in the locked thread is listed here https://www.modelmayhem.com/p.php?thread_id=253530 ok question: I've read in a lot of your other threads that you use a beauty dish quite often but usually it is a gridded beauty dish. Is this a specialized beauty dish that accepts a grid or do all beauty dishes accept a grid ( looking through B&H the only gridded dish I saw was a Hensel). For example I just got a Alien bee beauty dish, can a grid be used with this and how. I have heard that there is a focus distance to a beauty dish that is ideal is that true? 1) you can use an Speedotron grid on a Alienbee 22inch beauty dish, may take a tweak to the clips but it fits, also on hensel 22inch dishes, again tweak the springclips t stay on tight. 2) there is not a true point of focus, but a relative focus area, the shape will focus the light somewhat and I have often found that a great range for great effect on a BD with no direct light from center is anywhere from 1 foot away to 4 1/2 feet away, beyond that and its fine but begins to lose the effect of it being a beautydish and becomes more of an umbrella, except that a gird can make the light into a smaller tighter area than a huge sprad of an umbrella. Because I know its coming I will give some more info on them. Below are a few examples, all with grid several different dishes, I am not a huge fan of an unmodified mola, the spedotron blackline dish is my favorite followed by a hensel silver with deflector, not the center grided one or at least not using a center grid, I do not use dishes without overall grids unless I am outside using it as a sun from far away. Broncolor makes a nice one also. As I said I only use them with grids, without it you might as well use an umbrella, much cheaper and lighter. The speedotron has a diffused center I would place a mirror behind it reflecting the light back at the head and a black circle to cut the center so no light comes through, you could also leave a white center once the mirror back is in place light cannot go through anyway. many other brands of dishes including alienbee are 22inch diameter and as such the speedotron grid will fit any 22inch, you may have to adjust the clips to hold it tighter or just weld it one I woudl it never comes off and if I needed it without one outside I woudl use something else instead  I also have a few custom made with tighter degrees but the speedotron is cheap, easy and works great no need to have any made unless you have some lighting companies looking to do something for you. I like to control spill, flags can but the grids are very directional more so than a flag or barndoors or snoot even if its a tight grid. I have grids on almost everything except umbrellas, fresnels, and obscure things like likesticks, globes, and glowing objects, I use them on Softboxes, Octobanks, octoboxes, striplights, lightbars, even my snoots have a grid. I would grid my grid if I could, I think I have a control issue I need to deal with..... Now I am including many samples, mainly because I figure if I gave some examples it would show some range of a BD without a major variation in photographer style vast difference is technique or majot model quality location shifts that cloud the issue more, so hopefully you get more of a feel for what the dish can do for you.                                    Stephen Eastwood http://www.StephenEastwood.com Feb 21 08 12:22 am Link Well, after seeing Stephen's examples again I have absolutely nothing to add  Feb 21 08 07:43 am Link Thank you. This is great info I can use Feb 21 08 07:48 am Link Do you have a lighting combination you like to use with a beauty light? I want to get a beauty dish but cant decide between the profoto silver or white, i was told to get silver and I can add a white diffuser sock for when I wanted the softer white effect is this true? Feb 21 08 08:46 am Link You can't make a white beauty dish silver, but you can soften a silver one as described. The effect won't be exactly the same as using a white dish, but it will be softer than using a silver one on its own. Feb 21 08 09:30 am Link Frame In A Million wrote: Can someone post an example of the difference between using a white vs silver BD? Feb 21 08 09:42 am Link evan balbier wrote: I never use the sock, but no its not the same, the sock diffuses the light and spreads it out more, if you use a grid the silver has more specular punch and snap and the white a bot softer snap to it but both will follow a grid path well and tight a diffuser will all but kill the grid effect and control Feb 21 08 12:11 pm Link Anyone know by chance a 3rd party grid that will fit a profoto beauty dish? Feb 21 08 12:16 pm Link The grids on softboxes and beauty dish actually reduce the effective size of the light sources (in contrary to most popular belief) if you don't point it front on to the model. Therefore it increases contrast and hardness (specularity), creating deep shadows. Inverse square law doesn't appy to grided light sources. If you stick very fine grids like a 20 degree eggcrates to a softbox, the light lose its lots of its wrap around quality. If you stick a 3 degree grid to a standard reflector, it becomes a very hard and small light source. Norman makes 22" 15 degrees grid fits on both Mola and Speedtron dishes; it produces very tight beam of light like a fresnel beam. Beauty dish doesn't really focus light effectively becuase the flash tube is not at the focal point of the reflector. So I don't buy into the polpular belief that it has a sweet spot. The difference between silver and white dishes depend on manufactures; usually silver dish gives more specular high lights, deeper shadows and narrower beam. Profoto silver dish has very shiny surface while Elinchrom, Bowen dishes have matte silver. Michael Grecco is a big advocate of grids. I used to use very fine grids (20 degrees) on Chimera softboxes and strip boxes but now I use it only if i want to control spill or create directional light or mood. The more directional light becomes, the less wrap around it gets. 30-40 degrees grids still give soft light with some wrap around quality. Feb 21 08 12:18 pm Link evan balbier wrote: not third party but here is theres and it links to white and silver dishes. Feb 21 08 12:22 pm Link StephenEastwood wrote: You always have something to teach Stephen. Feb 21 08 12:22 pm Link Sing Lo Photography wrote: How does the laws of light speed vs distance vs relative strength change by altering the path of the light exactly? Feb 21 08 12:26 pm Link Liz Ashley wrote: I agree with always gorgeous Liz Feb 21 08 12:26 pm Link Awesome post! Feb 21 08 12:28 pm Link And what the silver dish does in a more general sense compared to the white, in non technical terms, (depending on which silver, smooth or rough, patterned or bumpy etc) is it creates high and brighter sources of light from the mirrored surfaces as compared to the less bright reflections out so when adjusting for the light to keep the highlights you lose some of the lower end and get a more vast shift from highlight to shadow creating deeper shadows and bright highlights. A white dish has a more uniform light reflecting outward creating uniform highlughts and shadows (within reason) which acts as the highlughts and fill on the surface of the skin thereby softeneing the shadows. That is obviously non technical and it is designed more to help people get a vision in their head of what is happening with the dish. Stephen Eastwood http://www.StephenEastwood.com Feb 21 08 12:30 pm Link Stephen...you are a master... Feb 21 08 12:30 pm Link StephenEastwood wrote: Hello Stephen, Feb 21 08 12:46 pm Link Stephen needs to write a book-- I'm willing to fly to NY as a test subject, and he can title it, "Everything needed to teach this moron (N.Stiles) how to shoot". Seems to be a fair trade! Feb 21 08 12:53 pm Link stephen, great post, very in-depth and covered all the bases! i too have never used the "sock" but that speedo beauty dish is hard to beat for the light quality and price. i'm a big fan of grids anyway, and when i purchased my beauty dish years ago, i couldn't even consider not buying the matching grid. beautiful examples of diff. lighting scenarios & single light use of BD w/grid. regards, m-a Feb 21 08 12:54 pm Link D a r y l wrote: Gridded BD in front just barely to her right barely just clearing that purse lighting her face. Hairlight with 1/2 cto on a 7 inch reflector and grid above behind her. She was about 3-4 feet from a white paper seamless. Feb 21 08 12:56 pm Link Stephen, Do you use different degree grids with your dish depending on the subject or do you stick to a certain degree grid? (doesn't look like there are a ton of options for grids degrees for each dish but I'm still curious). And thanks for answering my question about dishes and grids. Now if you could just send one of your models over to my place I could start experimenting....and maybe take some pictures too.... Feb 21 08 12:57 pm Link Gregg Zaun wrote: I have 10, 20, 35, 40 degrees some were custom made, but by now I think there are more around on the market. If all esle fails the speedo one works great so check what that one is. Feb 21 08 01:00 pm Link My question is: Which Speedo reflector is considered a "beauty dish" - I have speedo heads and can't justify purchasing a profoto or alien bee just for the dish... Feb 21 08 01:12 pm Link OldTex wrote: the speedo beauty dish & grids costs just under $300 if i recall, and the "sock" comes with it. the reflector dish size is 22" Feb 21 08 01:15 pm Link OldTex wrote: It's called a 22" Beauty Dish. It's about $130, iirc; and the 35^ grid is about $140. Or reverse that? There is a kit w/ both and a sock for $275 or so. Feb 21 08 01:17 pm Link OldTex wrote: Don't the speedotron one is in my opinion still the best of them all, once a tiny mod is done, bar none, and this even over the broncolor and hensels which are very nice as well. Feb 21 08 01:28 pm Link StephenEastwood wrote: You should get a commission - I plan to order one right away... WHat is the tiny mod you mentioned? Feb 21 08 01:47 pm Link OldTex wrote: StephenEastwood wrote: Feb 21 08 01:49 pm Link OldTex wrote: The mirror he mentioned earlier. It's detailed out in his first post, including a black piece to prevent light, which is not needed if you use the mirror mod. Feb 21 08 01:50 pm Link StephenEastwood wrote: OldTex wrote: ...means I don't really comprehend what I read... Feb 21 08 01:50 pm Link More about the mirror mod... Is this a mylar or otherwise flexible mirror or a special glass mirror cut to fit? Feb 21 08 01:52 pm Link OldTex wrote: You place a mirror or silver mirrored card cut into a circle facing the light head (if you don't have a dish this is not useful to understand since I would have to include diagrams, bookmark it and look later when you have a dish) That stops any light that directly comes from the head going through a diffuser, I than place a black cutout in front to stop the flair and create a different look that most people think and some even insist is a ringflash. Feb 21 08 01:54 pm Link bookmarked Feb 21 08 01:57 pm Link Stephen...beautiful work. Do you have any pics of your studio set up? Feb 21 08 02:00 pm Link StephenEastwood wrote: Ok - I get the idea, it's like a Cassegrain telescope. The inserted mirror faces the light, reflecting it into the dish, etc... Feb 21 08 02:02 pm Link Wiz of Oz Photography wrote: NO Feb 21 08 02:04 pm Link OldTex wrote: Yes, its not needed as a mirror, that just makes it more efficient, the main issue is keeping it from being any direct light from the head out even through the diffuser which in my opinion makes it not a beautydish and just a big reflector with a diffuser in front of the center Feb 21 08 02:06 pm Link StephenEastwood wrote: Stephen, Feb 21 08 02:12 pm Link I favour Mola, Demi and Euro. Not possible to buy in the U.K hence ordered from B&H. Feb 21 08 02:42 pm Link Holix wrote: they only make one, its black the brown is very old picture and I am not sure it was ever actually made, they are all black, the kit is the way to go just because its a few dollars less and you may as well get the diffuser free. Plus I would never recommend a beautydish without a grid since an umbrella is cheaper lighter and more convenient for the same basic result. Feb 21 08 02:43 pm Link |
