|
Forums >
Photography Talk >
Model's Agent insists on all original images
Ok, so I had a model pay me (very reasonable rate) for an hour shooting session. She insisted that she needed the images asap and that they looked good enough as is so she didn't even want me to do any editing or touch ups (which I normally do before I even show them the pictures). So as our contract stated I agreed to give her a cd of web (72 resolution) images to send to her agent in NYC. I also gave her my price list for prints as that is how I expect to really make any decent profit off of the shoot. She seemed happy until two weeks later when I get a call from her and her angry NYC agent whom is insisting that in NY all his models are given the full resolution original images for a lesser price than what I charged. The agent makes it sound like I'm ripping her off and that for my fee the model should be given all the images to do with as she pleases and that he has to have the full image to be able to zoom in on the picture to show prospecitive buyers her facial feautures close up. Has anyone heard of this before? I'm used to selling a few 8x10's for a model's portfolio or a cd of web images for them to post online on a site such as MM. Now I'll admit that I'm still somewhat new to this field, but I've never had an agent insist that him having all 100 of our full resolution images is standard practice! Any opinions???? Nov 07 06 10:32 am Link What you have is a bit of a quagmire here. On the one hand you entered into an agreement that is reasonable, proper and normal for your part of the country. You charged for what would normally be regarded as a "Sitting Fee" and then had an additional charge for prints. Perfectly normal for the portrait business and even headshot/portfolios in a lot of markets. Now comes New York (or L.A. or Chicago, etc) where the customs are a bit different (although I think the agent is trying to bully you a bit as well). Having an agent send models to you to shoot for portfolio in a big market is a good thing. The agents being in a strong position, tend to negotiate terms and conditions. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if they had a group of photographers they referred models to for a rate that had been agreed to in advance. It also wouldn't surprise me if they asked for all the photos since they were paying you and picked the ones they wanted to use themselves. The problem is, you aren't in New York. What are the chances that any New York agents are going to be referring droves of models to you in Colorado to shoot their portfolios? You know the answer. So the answer is that you are caught up in the culture of two different worlds. From my perspective, you made a reasonable deal with the model and it is wrong for them to try to change the agreement after the fact. Whether it was a good New York deal or a bad New York deal is irrelevant. It was the fair deal you negotiated in Colorado. My advice is don't feel bad about the agreement nor worry about the pressure. All you need to decide is what you want to do. There is an argument that you might want to make some concessions so that the model speaks well of you and you get future business from other models. On the other hand, you might feel that you can't do this for free (it is a business and you need to make money which is a perfectly valid point as well). The bottom line is be reasonable and do what you feel is right. You are under no obligation to change the deal after the fact simply because an agent 1000 miles away thinks she could get a better deal locally. Nov 07 06 11:01 am Link Alan from Aavian Prod wrote: I'd have to agree. Nov 07 06 11:10 am Link Redemption wrote: I agree too, if the "agent" can get a better deal for his models locally then why not go local instead of sending them over a thousand miles away? Nov 07 06 11:19 am Link Next time tell the "agent" to negotiate the terms "He" wants up front. You aren't an "agent" and you aren't negotiating, once the shoot is done. If you let me put my penis in your vagina tonight, don't have your mother call me tomorrow and call it rape, thank you. Mark Nov 07 06 12:49 pm Link I concur with the other opinions. Diferent parts of the country have different practices but when you look at the cost of living in NYC and that the top guys doing headshots were charging over $400 for headsots and one print and the model then paid for as many prints as they needed from a print shop I doubt you price was high Nov 07 06 12:54 pm Link The key here is the phrase 'as our contract stated'. If she signed a piece of paper agreeing to the terms you can pretty much tell the agent to go soak his head. Post/fax a copy of the contract she signed and then be quite reasonable in relation to discussions about payment for the other shots. Unless you can see this agent sending business your way it's not in your interests to give the pictures to him. Nov 07 06 01:43 pm Link Do you have a middle finger? What Alan said. John Nov 07 06 01:43 pm Link Tell the agent to go screw himself. The shoot was already agreed to, everyone was happy, not to mention, its not standard practice to just be giving away full resolution, or prints. Thats extra money in your pockets. And if you do give away full resolution, theres usually some kind of watermark on them unless they pay more to remove the watermark, or the full resolution might come with some heavy restrictions and limitations to their usage. They either liked the deal or they don't, and if they like it they go thru with it. I mean that would be like me buying a Car sometimes last year, then I see a commercial of the same dealer, or a competitor offering similar or same car for much cheaper, then trying to go back to the dealer demanding the difference a year after I have made the purchase... Point is, 2 weeks or 2 years, (assuming no "return policy" was written in), if you agreed to do something, and did it , do go back and bite the professionals' head off for it. Nov 07 06 01:53 pm Link or negotiate a sale to the agent. the previous contract has been completed but hey, if the agent wants to pay for the stuff, negotiate another contract for the product. at least that approach is not slamming any doors. if the agent chooses to slam it, then so be it. Nov 07 06 02:02 pm Link Who the hell is the agency and why are they managing a model in Colorado? Not being sarcastic, just wondering. Nov 07 06 02:11 pm Link Now if ever there was one, here is a question for UdoR. Studio36 Nov 07 06 03:01 pm Link Do you want to define your business practices or do you want the agent to do so? If that's how they do it in NY, then the agent should arrange for the model to shoot with one of his NY photographers. Seems to me that they've already decided that you are not giving them a good deal so this is a lost cause. Do you think the model will shoot with you again now that this "agent" has her ear? My answer is no. So there is no further benefit from this relationship and there is no sense in compounding this by giving them full resolution images. Offer them a price and stand by the orginal terms of the shoot. Don't give in to bully tactics. If you were clear and upfront with the model about what you do and she accepted that then stand by the deal regardless of what her agent says. Nov 07 06 03:20 pm Link Are you in New York? Is this NY agent going to send any work your (Colorado) way? Nov 07 06 04:07 pm Link Ditto to all of the above!  Nov 07 06 04:09 pm Link John Allan wrote: LMAO!! Yep! Nov 07 06 04:12 pm Link Wow, thanks everyone for your opinions, it's much appreciated! I'm glad my thoughts on the matter were shared as I often feel like us photographers are taken advantage of and misunderstood. Thanks for all the advice! Nov 07 06 11:25 pm Link Sounds like you completed your agreement with the model. 1. The agent is coming in after the fact and wasn't a party to the original agreement. 2. Not true with NY or LA agencies - and very few pro photographers would take up a deal like that with an agency if they asked before the session. 3. I've had mothers, models, agents, account executives come demanding ALL the FULL RES files from the session afterwards. They usually do it with very loud, forceful voices to add intimidation. I immediately drop my pants and bend over so they can kiss me. Nov 08 06 12:23 am Link i work with many agencies in ny, and have never heard of such a thing. i think this guy might be what the kids around here call a "sluggo". Nov 08 06 06:32 am Link JM Dean wrote: it's not uncommon for a model to be represented in multiple states/regions, even cities within the same state. for example models here in california can be represented by an agency in los angeles and a different agency in orange county, which is approx 50 miles away. modeling agencies get casting calls for both national and local jobs. to find real success in real world modeling you have to travel and make the rounds. Nov 08 06 10:54 am Link Thuy Anh wrote: i highly doubt the NYC agency sent their model to a colorado photographer for a test shoot. Nov 08 06 10:58 am Link I'd be careful burning any bridges - but you are the only one who knows all the details. You have to decide if you can negotiate with the agency and still receive a reasonable profit. If there is no benefit to you to negotiating, then I'd just let it go. Nov 08 06 11:07 am Link Sean Armenta wrote: So you're saying multiple agents could call up demanding the original files? That just reinforces the need to keep the originals safe and sound. Most of these arguments fall apart when you consider the consequences of any action. Nov 08 06 11:25 am Link Nicole Roche wrote: I'm kind of wondering about her paying for the shoot and only getting 72ppi images. Maybe if it were limited to 3-5 of the best shots and the rest web quality, but she paid you, right? Nov 08 06 11:41 am Link This is a great conversation and brings a few things to mind I'd like to mention. First off, the agent gets hot because the model shows up with low res images and a receipt. Now...I question if this dude is really an agent. Why is it that his involvement is reactionary. If he were an agent and clearly this was an inexperienced model, wouldn't he have addressed his issues before he sent her to get test shots with an unknown [to the agen] photographer? Second, exactly how many images did this alleged agent request? Last time I checked, I stopped giving models 100 images on CD. In my earlier stages as a photographer, I was excited to be shooting and actually a bit lazy. It was more convenient for me to shoot a high number and give away a high number than to focus more on each composition and review the images post shoot. Now, Models are doing great to get 20 images from me! In my opinion, I don't even think dude is an agent. If he is, she would have gone and shot with one of his network photographers and probablly been charged out the whaazoo for images that are probably comparable to the OPs. I believe dude is just a pissed off boyfriend that thinks his cute girlfriend should get everything free. Forget about the thousands that we as photographers invest in our equipment and hardware. He thinks her smile and cute butt somehow overshadows our investments. If she's got it like that, he's clearly got her in the wrong entertainment genre... Holla at your boy. -Mr. Jay Nov 08 06 06:51 pm Link Since he thinks you're expensive by NY standards, I'd tell 'em that his agency is expensive by Colorado standards. LOL...just kidding. I'd be nice about it and explain that I'd be happy to provide whatever they'd like for an additional fee. I'd offer to send those fees in writing so that no future misunderstandings occur. I'd also make damn sure they know the images are copyrighted....and I'd register the copyright as a collective work. Nov 08 06 09:02 pm Link Karl Blessing wrote: What he said Nov 08 06 09:46 pm Link It sounds like this so called PR agent is trying to get you to give up your rights. Make sure you honor your agreement with the model. If the agent contacts you again advise him of the agreement you made with the model and remind him that he has no standing in this agreement since your agreement is with the model. I would honor the agreement and have nothing more to do with the model. Also it sounds like they are trying to get around you to produce the model's photos since he is requesting original images. If that is not part of your agreement, then do not provide them. EJM Nov 08 06 11:23 pm Link Who was the agent....or agency ? Nov 08 06 11:28 pm Link seems like you completed your part of the agreement. If the agent insists on High resolution images, simply charge them your agreed rate for them. Aug 08 10 11:43 am Link stick to your guns good sir. and congrats that people are making such a fuss over your work. they obviously like it.  Aug 08 10 11:51 am Link Mr Jay wrote: +1 Aug 08 10 11:54 am Link Suggest the NY agent fly the model to NY where he can get those great deals. Round Trip, of course. Sounds to me just like said NY agent is trying to bully a sucker from the hinterlands into giving away the goods. Be kind, stay calm, and tell him to go f**k himself. Aug 08 10 12:03 pm Link Nicole Nichols Photography wrote: Your agreement didn't include the "agent" or the "agent's" opinion. Aug 08 10 12:06 pm Link Most agents are happy with 3-5 usable images. I never give my originals to anyone unless they pay. That being said, all my paying clients get the images agreed upon both in web resolution and high res for printing. You will find that by doing so, you will have clients returning over and over again. Plus the word would spread around. To me it just make better business sense to have your client happy. As for her agent, it sounds more like a friend trying to help her get the most out of a shoot. Aug 08 10 12:07 pm Link Leonard Gee Photography wrote: Careful - they may think you are dropping your pants for another reason... Aug 08 10 12:09 pm Link This thread is from '06. Aug 08 10 12:09 pm Link Another Zombie post ( from 2006) back to life Aug 08 10 12:10 pm Link K I C K H A M wrote: Wow, I didn't even notice this was from 06.....lol Aug 08 10 12:26 pm Link Rob Gillespie wrote: +1 Aug 08 10 05:34 pm Link |
