Photographer
SMS-Photography
Posts: 150
Oshkosh, Wisconsin, US
I see this all the time in models profile. “I’ve always dreamed of being a model and I’ll do what ever it takes to be successful”. So why dose it seem the only thing they won’t do is have their picture taken? Now I’m not taking about porn or even implied nude, I’m talking just “regular” photo shoots. I've been trying everything to get some TF shoots. It’s in my profile I’ll do “almost” any type of shoot for TF. I've made casting calls. And sent e-mails to models asking if they would be interested in a shoot. All with virtually no response.
Now I would understand if these model were receiving tons of other offers from more experienced photographers, but they’re not having them take their photos either. I often browse the listing in the area and I see models “checking-in” regularly to MM but they have the same portfolio pictures up for 1, 2 and 3 years, sometimes longer, never anything new. And a lot of their photos are either HS senior photos, something obviously take by a friend with a point and shoot and even selfies taken with a cell phone. This goes for male and female models.
So my question is this.
To photographers--- Is this common? And because I live in a “dead zone” I just have far less to choose from?
To models:
Are you expecting only a paid photo shoot with Glamour magazine with nothing then 3 or 4 year old photos in your port? Is there something about my profile that screams GWC? Or are the few photos in my port so bad it’s not worth your time getting some practice in front of the camera?
Just asking???
Model
Cole Morrison
Posts: 3958
Portland, Oregon, US
They're probably expecting someone to come along and offer them a ton of money for an easy shoot
Photographer
Marin Photo NYC
Posts: 7348
New York, New York, US
The questions you have can be addressed in the critique forum.
It could be that maybe you need some refereces from models you have worked with since you are new on MM. I had the same issue when I joined once I had references things got a little easier.
Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3971
Seattle, Washington, US
Why are you assuming they're not responding to you because they don't want their picture taken? There are tons of other reasons that could be causing models not to respond. Here are just a few:
1.) The models you're messaging aren't interested in having *you* take their picture (they don't like your work).
2.) Something about the way you're wording your message is putting the models off or setting off red flags. Can you post an example of a typical message you send to models when trying to arrange TF shoots?
3.) Some models are just flakes. It's not that they don't want their picture taken, or any other specific reason, they're just not serious about modeling.
4.) You're not offering pay.
Are you checking on when the models you're messaging have last logged in, or sorting results to only display models who have been active within the last 2 weeks? A lot of times photographers forget to do this, and end up messaging models who haven't been active in months, or even years.
Edit: Also, try posting in critique and ask for opinions on your profile and portfolio. Specifically ask models if they would TF with you, and if they wouldn't, to explain the reasons why.
Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 22898
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna
Cole Morrison wrote:
They're probably expecting someone to come along and offer them a ton of money for an easy shoot It's the American dream - to go directly from 10th grade to the cover of Vogue and start collecting the BIG bucks!
Studio36
Photographer
KU LLC
Posts: 269
Dallas, Texas, US
It could be your area.
I find a bunch of profiles in my area (which is pretty active) that are over a year old, but have nothing but cell phone "selfies" or crap point-n-shoot photos. They all have recent activity, too.
You may have to pay models to build up your port.
Your best bet is a PREMIUM or VIP member who will work with you on rates.
Photographer
DVP Photography
Posts: 2874
Broomfield, Colorado, US
I took a quick spin thru the critique forum and didn't see you asking your questions there. I suggest you do that. Real answers to your questions can only come in the critique forum.
Photographer
SMS-Photography
Posts: 150
Oshkosh, Wisconsin, US
MelissaAnn wrote:
2.) Something about the way you're wording your message is putting the models off or setting off red flags. Can you post an example of a typical message you send to models when trying to arrange TF shoots?
Are you checking on when the models you're messaging have last logged in, or sorting results to only display models who have been active within the last 2 weeks? A lot of times photographers forget to do this, and end up messaging models who haven't been active in months, or even years.
This would be somewhat typical of a message I send.
"I’m a photographer in Oshkosh, done a few shoots but looking for more experience. If you would be interested in doing a shoot with me check out my profile. I don’t charge anything and you can get copies of the images (retouched) to use for your portfolio. I’m easy to work with, relaxed atmosphere and take as much time as we need to get the images you want. Open to most anything and ideas. If you are interested hit me back, we could talk more or just jump right in and do a shoot."
And yes I search by last login.
Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3971
Seattle, Washington, US
SMS-Photography wrote:
This would be somewhat typical of a message I send.
"I’m a photographer in Oshkosh, done a few shoots but looking for more experience. If you would be interested in doing a shoot with me check out my profile. I don’t charge anything and you can get copies of the images (retouched) to use for your portfolio. I’m easy to work with, relaxed atmosphere and take as much time as we need to get the images you want. Open to most anything and ideas. If you are interested hit me back, we could talk more or just jump right in and do a shoot."
And yes I search by last login. There's nothing wrong with that message. My suspicion is that it's the state of your portfolio/profile (and the fact that you're not offering pay) that is causing the lack of response, but I'm unable to elaborate and give you a critique in this section. Try posting in the critique forum and you'll probably get some very helpful answers.
Also, are you contacting male models, female, or both?
Photographer
SMS-Photography
Posts: 150
Oshkosh, Wisconsin, US
That Italian Guy wrote:
Maybe they're simply not interested in shooting with you?
Photographer
SayCheeZ!
Posts: 20631
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Part of the reason MM has recently implemented the much stricter "no selfies/webcam shots" rule is to help insure MM is getting members that are at least a little serious about modeling.
It seems as though there was a certain amount of people that signed up just so they can tell their friends "I'm a model" with no intention of ever doing a shoot. The new minimum standard helps reduce those type of members (but doesn't completely eliminate it).
Photographer
Mortonovich
Posts: 6209
San Diego, California, US
95% of the "models" on MM are virtually worthless and are only here to be able to say they are a "model" with absolutely no intention of doing anything once they realize it actually takes work, skill and a look.
The other 5% can be fantastic but finding them can be tricky.
Artist/Painter
Christopher Willingham
Posts: 21859
Long Beach, California, US
In a nutshell - usually when models back off - it generally mean that they do not wish to work with you in particular. It happens... Sometimes the photographer's work doesn't mesh with what the model is looking for - remember, it is a collaboration. Just keep shooting, find what you enjoy and zero in on that - eventually your audience will grow - but you gotta find what works for you first.
Photographer
Brooklyn Bridge Images
Posts: 13200
Brooklyn, New York, US
SMS-Photography wrote:
I see this all the time in models profile. “I’ve always dreamed of being a model and I’ll do what ever it takes to be successful”. ![https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3526/3249460142_4400867cf1_z.jpg]()
Photographer
SMS-Photography
Posts: 150
Oshkosh, Wisconsin, US
Sorry I messed up the "quote feature" on here.
I'm seeing several "they don't want to work with you".
I would understand that and not question that but...they're not working with anyone!? No new photos at all.
And yes I thought about the critique form but it seems to me more a problem of models just not being active...or proactive.
And yes male and female
Artist/Painter
Christopher Willingham
Posts: 21859
Long Beach, California, US
Mortonovich wrote:
95% of the "models" on MM are virtually worthless and are only here to be able to say they are a "model" with absolutely no intention of doing anything more than a session or two.
The other 5% can be fantastic but finding them can be tricky. 58% of internet statistics are false...
And what is "virtually" worthless? Is that like "not really" worthless? Get it? "Virtual" /"not real"? 
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 13053
Atlanta, Georgia, US
SayCheeZ! wrote:
Part of the reason MM has recently implemented the much stricter "no selfies/webcam shots" rule is to help insure MM is getting members that are at least a little serious about modeling.
It seems as though there was a certain amount of people that signed up just so they can tell their friends "I'm a model" with no intention of ever doing a shoot. The new minimum standard helps reduce those type of members (but doesn't completely eliminate it). Well that has been the rule for many many years. iB may have secretly told gatekeepers to ignore that rule but it was always in the published rules to new members applying.
As for the OP question, as was already mentioned, ask models in the feedback forums for a honest answer.
Artist/Painter
Christopher Willingham
Posts: 21859
Long Beach, California, US
SMS-Photography wrote:
Sorry I messed up the "quote feature" on here.
I'm seeing several "they don't want to work with you".
I would understand that and not question that but...they're not working with anyone!? No new photos at all.
And yes I thought about the critique form but it seems to me more a problem of models just not being active...or proactive. Oh I see what you're saying. Don't worry about those ones - they usually don't last too long. Concentrate on the ones that are updating on a somewhat regular schedule.
Photographer
Brooklyn Bridge Images
Posts: 13200
Brooklyn, New York, US
Tony Lawrence wrote:
OP, don't take it personal. This is a site where models tag and email me about work and never follow up. This is a site where some accept paid work only to then flake. With rare exception there aren't that many serious models on MM. I know folks are saying how much is the payment, etc. this when most of the 'jobs' here pay ZERO. Especially for non nudes. When I first joined there was a female photographer I thought I knew by her work. I contacted her from her website and I was right. Great work. I asked her how she did with finding models here. This is a woman who has published imagery. She confided in me that most of the models just never responded. She wanted to play it forward. She left the site.
There's been some subtle hints its your work. Suggestions you move this to the critique forums are proof of that. Its not your work. Its not the money for the most part. Its not you. Last year I worked with a model who I never paid who would have shown up in a snow storm at the beach if I asked. Others won't respond or shoot on a sunny beautiful day if they only had to walk a block to shoot. Cast a larger net. Look on Craigslist. Facebook is another option. Most of all don't expect professionalism from non professionals. Tony covered it pretty well here
Model
GQ The Couture Model
Posts: 320
Seattle, Washington, US
I love being photographed but being a male I don't shoot on a regular basis in comparison to a female.
Photographer
Mortonovich
Posts: 6209
San Diego, California, US
Art of CIP wrote:
58% of internet statistics are false...
And what is "virtually" worthless? Is that like "not really" worthless? Get it? "Virtual" /"not real"? 
Model
90s sub pop records
Posts: 609
Livermore, California, US
They aren't models.
They just want to tell people they are a model.
Photographer
KMP
Posts: 4834
Houston, Texas, US
Cole Morrison wrote:
They're probably expecting someone to come along and offer them a ton of money for an easy shoot bingo
Photographer
Francisco Castro
Posts: 2630
Cincinnati, Ohio, US
1) They're expecting automatic paid gigs just simply because they have a profile, regardless of whether they actually have any talent or not.
2) They are exercising the only power they have that actually controls the quality of their port; saying yes and saying no to the appropriate photographers. A photographer can make his/her port better by studying, practicing, shooting, and editing better; 100% control. A model's control is only in agreeing to work with better photogs. Their images are only as good as the photographer, no matter a model's own talent.
3) They are not real profiles. There are a lot of profiles on MM that are created by creepers who setup a fake membership so that they can ogle the images marked, "mature". None members can't see those.
4) Your own port, well, leaves a lot to be desired. (He's asking why he's not getting work, so I'm considering it as asking for critique. Not against MM rules.). You have a bunch of images from the same shoot, looks like you only have shot with 3 guys. The images are not bad, not good... mediocre. Nothing memorable about them; you remember the really bad ones, and you remember the really good ones.
IMHO
Photographer
SayCheeZ!
Posts: 20631
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
SayCheeZ! wrote:
Part of the reason MM has recently implemented the much stricter "no selfies/webcam shots" rule... AJScalzitti wrote:
Well that has been the rule for many many years. iB may have secretly told gatekeepers to ignore that rule but it was always in the published rules to new members applying. Actually, that wasn't the rule until a few months ago, and nobody ever told us anything involving infractions of the rules that are secret.
It used to be that if the profile contained at least 4 decent images all of the other photos could be from practically anything.
The new rule is NO crappy cellphone or webcam shots AT ALL.
If a model has 20 great photos that were featured on the cover of Vogue, and one cellfie... the profile will be denied until the member removes the cellfie.
While that's a hypothetical case, that's basically what it is.
(... and yes, there are some exclusions to the rule, but the type of selfies that are excluded are rarely submitted).
Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 7504
New York, New York, US
MelissaAnn wrote:
Why are you assuming they're not responding to you because they don't want their picture taken? There are tons of other reasons that could be causing models not to respond. Here are just a few:
1.) The models you're messaging aren't interested in having *you* take their picture (they don't like your work).
2.) Something about the way you're wording your message is putting the models off or setting off red flags. Can you post an example of a typical message you send to models when trying to arrange TF shoots?
3.) Some models are just flakes. It's not that they don't want their picture taken, or any other specific reason, they're just not serious about modeling.
4.) You're not offering pay.
Are you checking on when the models you're messaging have last logged in, or sorting results to only display models who have been active within the last 2 weeks? A lot of times photographers forget to do this, and end up messaging models who haven't been active in months, or even years.
Edit: Also, try posting in critique and ask for opinions on your profile and portfolio. Specifically ask models if they would TF with you, and if they wouldn't, to explain the reasons why. MelissaAnn wrote:
There's nothing wrong with that message. My suspicion is that it's the state of your portfolio/profile (and the fact that you're not offering pay) that is causing the lack of response, but I'm unable to elaborate and give you a critique in this section. Try posting in the critique forum and you'll probably get some very helpful answers.
Also, are you contacting male models, female, or both? ![https://www.jayleavitt.com/links/guide_forum_llama.gif]()
RAYS FINE ART
--FORUM GUIDE--
Thanks, Melissa Ann, for two helpful posts One thing that I've noticed generally is that many models (not all by any stretch of the imagination but some) especially newbies, want to be completely guided and trained in every move and feel uncomfortable if the photographer evidences no specific artistic vision. Sometimes it's possible to be too nice a guy--maybe picking one or two genres that interest both you and the model and offering them as the core of what you'd like to shoot in addition to what the model might want to shoot would help.
And another approach that might help: You might want to visit some of the colleges (http://www.campusexplorer.com/colleges/ … 0&state=WI) in your area and put an ad in some of the campus papers or even just post notices on some bulletin boards. And don't forget your community theaters (http://www.foxarts.net/theatre/groups/). As an old ham myself, I can assure you that actors will want their pictures taken, especially for free and if you do production pictures for some of the groups, you'll also be performing a community service while expanding your portfolio.
All IMHO as always, of course.
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 12221
Los Angeles, California, US
Likely because (and it's an MM / Internet thing), they don't actually want to model, they want to be able to proclaim "I'm a model" and an MM profile is what they need to be somewhat believable when they say it.
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 23575
Salem, Oregon, US
some of us had to pay at first in order to get their attention and build our cred.
Photographer
eybdoog
Posts: 2647
New York, New York, US
Welcome to MM OP. 
Photographer
Hi_Spade Photography
Posts: 927
Florence, South Carolina, US
J O H N A L L A N wrote:
Likely because (and it's an MM / Internet thing), they don't actually want to model, they want to be able to proclaim "I'm a model" and an MM profile is what they need to be somewhat believable when they say it. +1 .
Photographer
DAN CRUIKSHANK
Posts: 1786
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
It's the circle of amateur photography... Neither models nor photographers want to pay for good talent to build their port.
Lots of Models want to get paid, or are only willing to shoot TF with experienced photographers... But their port isn't strong enough to gain the attention of these photographers. At the same time they don't think thy need to pay for a shoot, so they never shoot.
Lots of photographers think that by simply offering TF shoots they will gain attention from models... But if they can't offer anything unique there is no reason for a model to shoot with them.
Easiest solution is to develop a personal style by practicing on friends, and eventually you will be able to offer something models want ... Or ... Pay models to help develop your portfolio. Check out the travel availability part in castings, traveling models usually know their shit and are usually experienced working with newer photographers.
Photographer
Webspinner Studios
Posts: 6964
Ann Arbor, Michigan, US
Pretty much...your profile shows one studio setting and a LOT of photos of the same thing. Honestly go and do some street photography of old men talking in a bar, a family hanging out...these would make me as a model see more of YOUR potential as a photographer.
Photographer
Carle Photography
Posts: 9271
Oakland, California, US
Mortonovich wrote:
95% of the "models" on MM are virtually worthless and are only here to be able to say they are a "model" with absolutely no intention of doing anything once they realize it actually takes work, skill and a look.
The other 5% can be fantastic but finding them can be tricky. What about the 1% that retire from modeling after a few years then open photography studios?
Photographer
Expression Unlimited
Posts: 1408
Oceanside, California, US
Mortonovich wrote:
95% of the "models" on MM are virtually worthless and are only here to be able to say they are a "model" with absolutely no intention of doing anything once they realize it actually takes work, skill and a look.
The other 5% can be fantastic but finding them can be tricky. Yikes,
I was about to agree with you
and then saw you are in San Diego too.
Yes!
And CA should not be a dead zone ....
I just wrote back, again, to 9 models still in my inbox, who wrote to me
Yes WROTE TO ME and yet have not even read
the replies I sent them last week
...willing to arrange TFCD Times and places suggested and open to more...
Nuts.
Photographer
Expression Unlimited
Posts: 1408
Oceanside, California, US
Carle Photography wrote:
What about the 1% that retire from modeling after a few years then open photography studios? Hi Five Mariah!!!
xo
BRITT
Photographer
robert b mitchell
Posts: 2218
Surrey, British Columbia, Canada
MelissaAnn wrote:
Why are you assuming they're not responding to you because they don't want their picture taken? There are tons of other reasons that could be causing models not to respond. Here are just a few:
1.) The models you're messaging aren't interested in having *you* take their picture (they don't like your work).
2.) Something about the way you're wording your message is putting the models off or setting off red flags. Can you post an example of a typical message you send to models when trying to arrange TF shoots?
3.) Some models are just flakes. It's not that they don't want their picture taken, or any other specific reason, they're just not serious about modeling.
4.) You're not offering pay.
Are you checking on when the models you're messaging have last logged in, or sorting results to only display models who have been active within the last 2 weeks? A lot of times photographers forget to do this, and end up messaging models who haven't been active in months, or even years.
Edit: Also, try posting in critique and ask for opinions on your profile and portfolio. Specifically ask models if they would TF with you, and if they wouldn't, to explain the reasons why.
Photographer
Mortonovich
Posts: 6209
San Diego, California, US
Carle Photography wrote:
What about the 1% that retire from modeling after a few years then open photography studios? That is an elite group for sure!
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