SLE Photography wrote:
Nice post George 

I have a feeling it won't make much of a difference, but if just a few people benefit from this, I'd be happy.

I wish I'd seen something like this when I posted.

My Thread topic was "Just Another GWC" and I got a reasonable number of hits.
https://modelmayhem.com/p.php?thread_id=164195

I followed most of my own rules, other than the thread title, though.

Please notice, however, my title does not include the word "NEW"

T H Taylor wrote:
There should also be a suggestions thread for "mid level to advanced posters" as well. 
I am frequently disappointed at the rude and discourteous manner in which many newbs are treated by our forum "welcoming committee" just because they committed some minor, and in most cases UNWRITTEN Model Mayhem thread infraction...  It's old, boring and is denigrating to the reputation of this site. I guess the bully mentality has been successful in schoolyards since human interaction began; it's just unfortunate that an activity that so many are wanting to participate in is only successful at creating and encouraging assholes... I just don't get it.

Why is it so hard for some to understand and perpetuate the old adage:  "Do unto others...etc.?"
Bottom line:  People need to chill out (uh oh... better go get your "Urban Dictionary") and guide the newbs.  This site can be a bit confusing at first but, there's a lot to offer if one is given the chance to explore without fear of reproach or, just making the local vultures angry and restless.

A-f*@%$in-MEN. Seriously. I feel like I've started to see a fair amount of posts with people being nicer and more encouraging, but there are soooooooooo many instances where people are ready and waiting to JUMP on someone!!!!!

Victoria Vertuga wrote:

A-f*@%$in-MEN. Seriously. I feel like I've started to see a fair amount of posts with people being nicer and more encouraging, but there are soooooooooo many instances where people are ready and waiting to JUMP on someone!!!!!

It's tiny "pee pee" or "gigantic giner" syndrome.

allicette wrote:
hopefully these kids listen!!

This won't stay bumped long enough for anyone to actually read it.

Fotographia Fantastique wrote:
Good post.

My #1 pet peeve with newbie posters though, is the tendency to POST ALL IN CAPS.

THAT IS VERY ANNOYING.

#2 - Rotate your F*ing pictures! It's not art.

[edit]

#3 - Why do you have blury pcs in your port? Its still NOT art!

Mz Snow wrote:
Hmm. I wonder how many newb rules I've broken...

In addition...I hate when the "veteran" members make stupid assumptions about newbs. Congrats, you've been here for years...and? You were a newb one time as well.

I'm not going to respect anyones high post count.

Out of curiosity, what would you consider a "High" post count?

Mz Snow wrote:
3,000+

I should clarify, that a high post count wont determine my respect for someone, it's how you treat me (obviously)

I get that on other forums I visit, where people walk around high and mighty because they've been there a long time and their post count is through the roof.

Most of the people here don't think of their post count as a measure of their skill.

At least I hope not.

Mz Snow wrote:
No no. The people I've here come across have been very nice. I have been on forums though that base their popularity on their post count, along with treating newbies badly.

If this is about the post a few minutes ago. I didn't mean to treat you badly, I apologize.
I have been on this site for only 5 months. But, the critique forum is not the place to to laugh at people and post irrelevant, immature comments. I learned that from reading the rules on the site, and I suggest new members do the same.

I wish you the best of luck on MM Mz Snow.

T H Taylor wrote:
There should also be a suggestions thread for "mid level to advanced posters" as well. 
I am frequently disappointed at the rude and discourteous manner in which many newbs are treated by our forum "welcoming committee" just because they committed some minor, and in most cases UNWRITTEN Model Mayhem thread infraction...  It's old, boring and is denigrating to the reputation of this site. I guess the bully mentality has been successful in schoolyards since human interaction began; it's just unfortunate that an activity that so many are wanting to participate in is only successful at creating and encouraging assholes... I just don't get it.

Why is it so hard for some to understand and perpetuate the old adage:  "Do unto others...etc.?"
Bottom line:  People need to chill out (uh oh... better go get your "Urban Dictionary") and guide the newbs.  This site can be a bit confusing at first but, there's a lot to offer if one is given the chance to explore without fear of reproach or, just making the local vultures angry and restless.

QFT

Mz Snow wrote:
No no. The people I've here come across have been very nice. I have been on forums though that base their popularity on their post count, along with treating newbies badly.

Some newbies DO get stomped, but mostly for not reading the rules or being particularly or willfully ignorant.

Mz Snow wrote:
I hate when the "veteran" members make stupid assumptions about newbs.

Such as? Folks here can only go off of what you give us. We're not mind-readers. For all but about four people on here, I only know you from what you put in your profile, your portfolio, and your forum posts.

Mz Snow wrote:
Congrats, you've been here for years...and? You were a newb one time as well.

I don't understand this sentiment. Yes, we were all new once. But that still didn't give us the right to come in like we had the cure for cancer. EVERYONE has to be humble (or be humbled) when they start out, regardless of your confidence level. And that's what a lot of new people don't quite grasp yet. They come in not knowing the difference between pizazz/youthful exuberance and downright ignorance or arrogance as to how this works. And the "welcoming committee" is there to humble them, as it did me. Better now than later, I guess. But that's just me.

Mz Snow wrote:
I'm not going to respect anyones high post count.

Well, that's a personal decision. Those "high post counts" show at the very least experience with the Model Mayhem forum. And while we all have certain goals we want to reach with our careers, the fact that we're doing it at Model Mayhem requires a certain amount of knowledge of how Model Mayhem works.

Mz Snow wrote:
As I've mentioned, I've been treated very well since joining here, and I haven't seen anyone being mistreated because they are new.

See? We're not all bloodhounds! I hope you continue to enjoy the Mayhem, Wisconsin.

Mz Snow wrote:
Lol, thanks.

I actually went back to my intro thread and was like...

"wow...I missed a lot from the rules"

Live and learn

These aren't rules... just more like... guidelines.

T H Taylor wrote:
I am frequently disappointed at the rude and discourteous manner in which many newbs are treated by our forum "welcoming committee" just because they committed some minor, and in most cases UNWRITTEN Model Mayhem thread infraction...

I must humbly disagree with you here. Most of the time, the "violation" is written clear as day in the very first post in the Newbie Forum (the Survival Guide from CLT). In addition, CLT did a great job in describing the types of people here (wolves, rabbits, etc), and it's nothing more than people being lazy. Point blank. Didn't read, didn't even check the place out. When you move into a new house, you at least want to know where the rooms, walls, and electrical outlets are before just moving stuff in. Now I will give you the fact that there are some assholes here. Straight up. Trolls. And more often than not, when they are beating up on a newb, there's someone just as, if not more, experienced telling the troll to ease up.

T H Taylor wrote:
It's just unfortunate that an activity that so many are wanting to participate in is only successful at creating and encouraging assholes... I just don't get it.

I get it crystal clear, and it comes from adminning other forums on the Internet. There's a difference between being an asshole and stating the truth. The BIGGEST problem BY FAR that I've seen on this site is people who don't want to take advice or criticism, especially newer people. I'm no expert on the industry by a long shot, but if someone asks my opinion, and I give it to them, and it's not what they want to hear or expect to hear, that's not my fault. You asked, I answered. But that's the half of it. It's folks who are TELLING you that the industry of which you want to be a part works a certain way and then you get all defensive and whatnot.

If I want to shoot glam photography, and here I am telling Ransom J how it works, he's gonna kick my ass, and he's gonna probably call some buddies, and they're gonna kick my ass, too. If I want to go shoot for an agency, and Roger (TXPhotog) is sitting here TELLING me what I need to do or what I SHOULD TRY to do, and I get all huffy and defensive, how is he SUPPOSED to react? It's THOSE things, in my opinion, that turn people into assholes. Thinking that you can watch "The Shot" or "America's Next Top Model" or read a couple of Internet sites and then all of a sudden BOOM, you're hot ish and want to project that onto folks who have BEEN THERE, DONE THAT.

T H Taylor wrote:
Why is it so hard for some to understand and perpetuate the old adage:  "Do unto others...etc.?"

Depends on your demeanor. Given a choice, I'd rather someone tell me the truth in a harsh way than to lie to me in a nice way. But above all else, I want someone to tell me the truth. Saves me money and time in the long run.

T H Taylor wrote:
This site can be a bit confusing at first but, there's a lot to offer if one is given the chance to explore without fear of reproach or, just making the local vultures angry and restless.

Absolutely agree here. All one has to do is not worry about the local vultures; they're probably not going to work with you anyway. But EACH OF US determines who the local vultures are. What I perceive as someone who has told a 5'1" 175 lb newb nicely THREE TIMES that she has no chance at high fashion in Milan or Paris before having to forcefully say it about two more times, someone else will see as being mean.

I understand your sentiment, Mr. Taylor. I felt the same way at one point. Until I talked to the experienced folks (not necessarily those with high post counts). Away from the Mayhem, either in person or on the phone. Learned a LOT. THAT's why I joined this place: to network. I only give a damn so much because I COME into the Newbie Forum. I come and say hi and offer a beer and let the Canadians know that I root for the Alouettes. I SEE the mistakes made. And I try to help. Sometimes even I have to get forceful with someone who doesn't want to listen.

Damnit. I wrote a book again. AAAARGHH!

SunArcher Photography wrote:

T H Taylor wrote:
I am frequently disappointed at the rude and discourteous manner in which many newbs are treated by our forum "welcoming committee" just because they committed some minor, and in most cases UNWRITTEN Model Mayhem thread infraction...

I must humbly disagree with you here. Most of the time, the "violation" is written clear as day in the very first post in the Newbie Forum (the Survival Guide from CLT). In addition, CLT did a great job in describing the types of people here (wolves, rabbits, etc), and it's nothing more than people being lazy. Point blank. Didn't read, didn't even check the place out. When you move into a new house, you at least want to know where the rooms, walls, and electrical outlets are before just moving stuff in. Now I will give you the fact that there are some assholes here. Straight up. Trolls. And more often than not, when they are beating up on a newb, there's someone just as, if not more, experienced telling the troll to ease up.

T H Taylor wrote:
It's just unfortunate that an activity that so many are wanting to participate in is only successful at creating and encouraging assholes... I just don't get it.

I get it crystal clear, and it comes from adminning other forums on the Internet. There's a difference between being an asshole and stating the truth. The BIGGEST problem BY FAR that I've seen on this site is people who don't want to take advice or criticism, especially newer people. I'm no expert on the industry by a long shot, but if someone asks my opinion, and I give it to them, and it's not what they want to hear or expect to hear, that's not my fault. You asked, I answered. But that's the half of it. It's folks who are TELLING you that the industry of which you want to be a part works a certain way and then you get all defensive and whatnot.

If I want to shoot glam photography, and here I am telling Ransom J how it works, he's gonna kick my ass, and he's gonna probably call some buddies, and they're gonna kick my ass, too. If I want to go shoot for an agency, and Roger (TXPhotog) is sitting here TELLING me what I need to do or what I SHOULD TRY to do, and I get all huffy and defensive, how is he SUPPOSED to react? It's THOSE things, in my opinion, that turn people into assholes. Thinking that you can watch "The Shot" or "America's Next Top Model" or read a couple of Internet sites and then all of a sudden BOOM, you're hot ish and want to project that onto folks who have BEEN THERE, DONE THAT.

T H Taylor wrote:
Why is it so hard for some to understand and perpetuate the old adage:  "Do unto others...etc.?"

Depends on your demeanor. Given a choice, I'd rather someone tell me the truth in a harsh way than to lie to me in a nice way. But above all else, I want someone to tell me the truth. Saves me money and time in the long run.


Absolutely agree here. All one has to do is not worry about the local vultures; they're probably not going to work with you anyway. But EACH OF US determines who the local vultures are. What I perceive as someone who has told a 5'1" 175 lb newb nicely THREE TIMES that she has no chance at high fashion in Milan or Paris before having to forcefully say it about two more times, someone else will see as being mean.

I understand your sentiment, Mr. Taylor. I felt the same way at one point. Until I talked to the experienced folks (not necessarily those with high post counts). Away from the Mayhem, either in person or on the phone. Learned a LOT. THAT's why I joined this place: to network. I only give a damn so much because I COME into the Newbie Forum. I come and say hi and offer a beer and let the Canadians know that I root for the Alouettes. I SEE the mistakes made. And I try to help. Sometimes even I have to get forceful with someone who doesn't want to listen.

Damnit. I wrote a book again. AAAARGHH!

Your opinion is poignant and noted; we will agree to disagree.

For the record:  I have been on this site for over two years...

Bottom line
People would never do, say the things or, act as they do to others in the "real world like they do here (hidden safely behind the huge, anonymous veil of the Internet.).
Kind of "Chicken shit" and sad if you ask me.

T H Taylor wrote:
Your opinion is poignant and noted; we will agree to disagree.

For the record:  I have been on this site for over two years...

Bottom line
People would never do, say the things or, act as they do to others in the "real world like they do here (hidden safely behind the huge, anonymous veil of the Internet.).
Kind of "Chicken shit" and sad if you ask me.

Your experience with this site, and the opinion formed by it, are duly noted and respected. I can only give my opinion based on my admittedly short time here and the conversations I've had away from MM about MM.

And I am fully aware of folks who act every bit as they do here. I'm one of them. But I'm just a loose cannon like that. And people that know me know it. Some I know are actually SUBDUED compared to their real-life experiences and what they have to deal with in that real world. But I understand your sentiment and as a matter of generalizing, I would tend to agree.