Amanda Cummings wrote:
Soon enough I should have my first "real" shoot with a Photographer off of MM. I have been browsing and learning all I need to know about the website in general, but something sticks out. Why are Photographers so against Models bringing someone with them to a photo shoot? I can't speak for everyone else but I would never bring someone obnoxious enough to ruin or interrupt my photo shoot in any way. I also feel as though my pictures would come out better since I would be more relaxed and comfortable with a close friend there with me. I'm sure as I have a couple more shoots under my belt I will feel a little better about flying solo, but I just wonder what the hype is about. Isn't safety everyone's main concern?

You said it yourself.  You will have your first "real" photo shoot with a photographer from MM.  Question you should ask is will the Makeup artist, hair stylist or wardrobe stylist there as well?  Or will it just be you and the photographer?

MelissaLynnette LaDiva wrote:
No.

Images are everyone's main concern.

This will probably get locked.

You either trust the photographer or you don't.

Ask yourself why you feel you need pictures so badly that you would put yourself and someone you care about in an unsafe situation.

She wants both (picture and her safety)!

ChanStudio wrote:
You said it yourself.  You will have your first "real" photo shoot with a photographer from MM.  Question you should ask is will the Makeup artist, hair stylist or wardrobe stylist there as well?  Or will it just be you and the photographer?

Good point. I'm sure that would be fine if there were other people there, most definitely.

ChanStudio wrote:
She wants both (picture and her safety)!

Yes, thank you.

ChanStudio wrote:

She wants both (picture and her safety)!

So she should work with people she can trust.

Yes, she can only work with photographers who allow escorts, but her question in her original post leads me to think that she hasn't come to that conclusion yet.

Brian T Rickey wrote:
Not this again.  Where is that photo of the guy with his hand on his forehead where he is saying jeez,
'not this shit again'

edit- op try doing a forum search for this topic.

I'm sorry. I was just wondering.

Amanda Cummings wrote:
Soon enough I should have my first "real" shoot with a Photographer off of MM. I have been browsing and learning all I need to know about the website in general, but something sticks out. Why are Photographers so against Models bringing someone with them to a photo shoot? I can't speak for everyone else but I would never bring someone obnoxious enough to ruin or interrupt my photo shoot in any way. I also feel as though my pictures would come out better since I would be more relaxed and comfortable with a close friend there with me. I'm sure as I have a couple more shoots under my belt I will feel a little better about flying solo, but I just wonder what the hype is about. Isn't safety everyone's main concern?

There have been numerous "escort" threads here on MM. Sadly, they all seem to degenerate into chaos and eventually get locked.

There are some photographers who allow escorts. There are others (like myself) who do not. Same with models- some want an escort, some don't. Your best bet is to work with those who have the same views as you.

Three pieces of advice:

1. Treat modeling as a job. That means work with professionals (or at least those who behave professionally), have confidence in your own abilities, and don't rely on anyone else to be able to perform. It also means that you should develop a network of stylists, makeup artists, models, photographers, and others in the industry who can work with you and contribute something worthwhile to a shoot.

2. Understand the downsides of wanting an escort. You can work with escort-friendly photographers either way, but you'll limit yourself to just them if you insist on bringing someone. You also hitch your reputation and career to someone else's performance- you can control your own actions and reliability but no matter who the escort is you can't PROMISE that they will show up and behave.

3. Learn how to properly research people and stay safe. Relying on an escort is not a good way to guarantee your safety; in fact, a female model is MUCH more likely to be assaulted by a husband, boyfriend, family member, or personal friend than by a stranger let alone a photographer with references and a reputation. An escort also can't help with bad checks, failure to send pictures, poor retouching, flakes, and other common problems that a reference check would ferret out quickly.

Bottom line- if you need someone else there for your pictures to "come out better", you aren't ready to model (I'll make exception for a professional mentor or trainer- I've actually hired an experienced model to help a newbie on her first shoot with me.) And if you need an escort along to stay safe with a photographer, you should NOT be shooting with that person.

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:

Waits for SLE to arrive

He must be asleep.

J O N A T H A N 3 wrote:
do you bring an escort into a taxi cab as well... do u take one with you when your in an elevator with someone?

obviously not because it would be the dumbest thing in the world

Do your job as a model and get references... and if you don't feel safe shooting don't do it or find something else to do

Amen.

MelissaLynnette LaDiva wrote:
No.

Images are everyone's main concern.

This will probably get locked.

You either trust the photographer or you don't.

Ask yourself why you feel you need pictures so badly that you would put yourself and someone you care about in an unsafe situation.

To add:

OP, this topic is done to death, so I'll skip to the end and offer the only sane advise I've ever heard about escorts:  If you insist on an escort, fine.  If the photographer insists on no escort, fine.  The two of you will simply not work together, so move on.

Constance Ruiz wrote:
i thought they passed a rule for no more freakin escort threads.

MM wouldn't be MM anymore without escort threads....

Richard Dubois wrote:
If you insist on an escort, fine.  If the photographer insists on no escort, fine.  The two of you will simply not work together, so move on.

QFT

/ thread

Brian T Rickey wrote:
Not this again.  Where is that photo of the guy with his hand on his forehead where he is saying jeez,
'not this shit again'

edit- op try doing a forum search for this topic.

You mean this one?



Maybe this one is better?

Amanda Cummings wrote:

I'm sorry. I was just wondering.

thats not gonna make this thread any good..at all.

if I were you I'd forget I made this thread and never ever click to see the replies.

dont even try to respond....RUN!

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:

Waits for SLE to arrive

Hah!  Yeah, its not a real "escort" vs "no escort" thread without THE MAN

(love ya, SLE, even if we don't see eyeball to eyeball on this one, I still cherish your candor )

Koray wrote:

thats not gonna make this thread any good..at all.

if I were you I'd forget I made this thread and never ever click to see the replies.

dont even try to respond....RUN!

yes, run like the WIND!!

Constance Ruiz wrote:
i thought they passed a rule for no more freakin escort threads.

They made a list of things too.. *goes off to find PP's old threads*

Vasilisa wrote:
Oh jesus...

Do you bring an escort with you to a job interview/dentist appointment/whatever to just sit unobtrusively in the corner? No? It'd seem very unprofessional at an interview and just odd at some sort of other appointment wouldn't it? This is really no different.

Please read over every escort thread on here, you'll find all the answers you need and some you don't.

A lot of photographers on MM shoot from their homes so it's a little different than an office building.

Spirion Photography wrote:

A lot of photographers on MM shoot from their homes so it's a little different than an office building.

Not really.

Spirion Photography wrote:
A lot of photographers on MM shoot from their homes so it's a little different than an office building.

And we all know nothing deviant happens in office buildings.

The_N_Word  wrote:
If some photographer has the intent of diddling me, he has that intent regardless of whether my friend is there or not. Someone doesn't allow escorts, whatever.

I go alone.

I don't give a fuck.

Take my picture.

And if something happens that I can't handle myself, I have a cell phone, a big boyfriend and ruffians for friends.

heh

Spirion Photography wrote:

A lot of photographers on MM shoot from their homes so it's a little different than an office building.

Why?

Many women have been attacked in office building stairwells and empty offices.

Give me one instance where a woman has been attacked in a home studio.

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:

Waits for SLE to arrive

Brian T Rickey wrote:
He must be asleep.

Wednesday Harrington wrote:
Hah!  Yeah, its not a real "escort" vs "no escort" thread without THE MAN

(love ya, SLE, even if we don't see eyeball to eyeball on this one, I still cherish your candor )

Oh hai.  I thought I heard my name being called.  I was installing a new printer & an extra terrabyte of memory on my computer.

And thanks, Wednesday.  You need to PM me & let me know if you & your escort want Champagne or wine as a wedding gift when I see you next week. 

--------------------------------------------------------------

Now, for the OP.  Of COURSE photographers want you to be comfortable.  But if you're so terrified of them that you need someone there to protect you, a) the shoot's likely to suck and b) the PHOTOGRAPHER might not necessarily be comfortable with someone looming behind him watching for "misbehavior."  Especially someone like me who's been robbed at gunpoint by an "escort."

Of course you say that YOUR escort won't be a problem, but that's what EVERYONE says about their escort.  You're assuming we're dangerous rapists, but you expect us to trust & believe you about your escort.  It's a double standard.

For many of us, experience has taught that models who won't work without an escort are simply bad-odds risks to be problems on a shoot, especially with newbies.  Risk of a bad shoot aside there's an automatically higher flake risk when you have to rely on the model AND her escort.  Even someone as experienced & well known as Wednesday, whose escort comes with references, becomes suspect because of models in these forums doing things like admitting to picking up strangers in bars & showing up to shoots telling photographers the guy from the bar is her boyfriend.

Am I saying don't take an escort?  No.  Make your own choices,  But please try to see the POV of photographers who say "no" and understand that it's not about YOU any more than you wanting to bring an escort is about US.  Don't make the assumption that we don't care about you or your safety or that we have ulterior motives, and always remember that in one of the VERY rare cases of a fake photographer who killed models, he killed escorts too.

So the realistic answer for both safety & comfort is "due diligence."  I'm going to put up 2 LONG posts full of VERY detailed safety steps following this, and then a couple of questions for you to consider.
EDITED TO ADD:  The lists ended up split half on this page & half on page 2 but they're posted.
I'd urge you to read the lists carefully.  Even if you're going to use an escort these steps are VITAL, for reasons explained in the posts.


Remember, using your instincts, common sense, and getting educated will serve you best in the long run!

Good luck to you, and I apologize for being so long winded. 

SLE Photography wrote:
Hey folks, how about some REAL, VALID safety tips for models?  (these are for INTERNET modeling, not agency work)

If you're under 18 and not an agency model (they operate differently) ALWAYS take a parent or legal guardian with you.  A boyfriend or girlfriend or sibling is NOT ok.  First off your parents should know about & support what you're doing or you shouldn't be doing it.  Second, the photographer probably will want or need papers signed that require a parent or legal guardian, and there're specific legal requirements someone has to meet to fill that role.  If you can't tell your parents what you're doing...you shouldn't be doing this.  You have bigger problems.
If you are UNDER 18 and the photographer says "Come alone" that is THE exception to automatically assuming there's something creepy going on.  If you're under 18 & they say that, there probably is something wrong.

The other time I personally have no issue with an escort is if the model is physically disabled & needs special assistance.  One of the models in my port is entirely paralyzed on her left side & needs help with things as simple as changing her shoes.  She's a great lady though, and obviously NEEDS someone there who's qualified to assist her.  Ditto for another model wh's posted before who's a quadripelegic.

SO, assuming you're an adult, what then?
First, check the photographer out!  References, references, references!  Does he or she have other models you can ask about work experiences?  Do so!  While you're at it, ask how they were about flaking,  returning images promptly, not bouncing checks, and honoring agreements...relying on escorts instead of reference checks can land you with all sorts of problems OTHER than safety.  This's also a great way for you to network with others in your local community!  If you hear ONE bad thing about someone and 15 good things, use your judgment to make a decision.

Second, verify the photographer's info...is there a business license in that name?  Does he or she own a web domain with traceable info?  Is there a verifiable phone number that's not a throwaway cell?  How about a business mailing address?  Don't just swap PMs here on the site or IMs via AIM or Yahoo, get some e-mails...they're traceable!  Keep RECORDS of all this stuff written down & on your computer.  Fakes are not going to stand up to this scrutiny & won't want to leave a lot of traceable info.  Some of these things will not be something everyone has...many reputable hobbyists don't have business licenses, some pro places don't have their own web domains, etc.  Some of these things not being available to you is no big deal...NONE of them being there is.

Third, if possible & practical, meet the photographer first in a public place like Starbuck's or Border's to see each other face to face, be sure of who you're talking to, and see if you're comfortable with one another.  There should be NO issue with you bringing someone along for THIS!  Many photographers (often myself included) do NOT work with models one-on-one most of the time, in this case the photographer might bring an assistant to meet you as well.  If the photographer CAN'T do this, it's not a bad thing, per se.  He or she might be very busy, or distance might be a factor.  If I'm blowing in to California for a couple of days & doing a bunch of shoots (which happens about twice a year) I do NOT have time to meet everyone first.

During steps 2 & 3, COMMUNICATE with the photographer.  Get ALL the details STRAIGHT over what they want, what they expect, what the release (if any) will say, what your allowed usage of the images should be, what to expect on the shoot, etc.  If the photographer doesn't allow escorts, ask why and then make a judgment as to whether you feel safe.  If you don't feel safe with the photographer, DO NOT WORK WITH THAT PERSON.  The most foolish thing I've heard is "I don't feel safe, I'll just take an escort!"

Fourth, day of shoot make sure someone RELIABLE knows where you're going to be, and with whom, and at what times.  Make sure the photographer KNOWS this.  When you show up, CALL your friend on your cell (and if you don't have a cell take $25.99 to 7-11 and get a pay as you go phone...again, if you can't/won't take this kind of step maybe you should reconsider this) and tel them "Hey, I'm here with so and so, like I told you, we should be shooting here at _________ until about (time), I'll call you when I've left.  I might check in if we take a break."  Then CHECK IN!

Some models have commented they need a driver.  Reasonable photographers shouldn't have a problem with someone bringing you, coming in BRIEFLY to say hello, then LEAVING until you're done.
My only issue with this is that I feel the model should have her own transportation nearby in case the photographer's a jerk & she needs to be able to leave.
But in general a driver scenario should be no issue.  If the photographer is giving you a ride, there should similarly be no issue in taking a minute to say hello to your bf/room mate/dad (if over 18 & living with parents) before you go.

Another good thing to discuss here is the possibility of an MUA.  Can you both mutually agree on one?  (if it's a TF* shot be prepared to pay for it or split the cost!)  Don't try to pass off your friend from the MAC counter as an MUA as an excuse for an escort, either.
Ditto for asking about an assistant.
I will note here I do not believe a photographer should EVER say "bring an escort, I'll use them as an assistant," this's highly unprofessional due to several risk factors.

On the off chance there IS a problem with the photographer, don't be quiet!  Do NOT be afraid to say no, and if necessary WALK OUT.  As noted here, saying "NO!" generally halts BS, and when it doesn't the models can generally just LEAVE.  Sure, you won't get photos, but are they WORTH it at that point??  If something criminal happens GO TO THE COPS.  If the photographer's just a jerk and treats you badly or violates your agreements, let people know...but be HONEST.  Don't talk trash because you didn't get along or don't like your photos, and work hard to resolve issues over things like CD delivery before going public.
Become a reference & part of the community...again, this's networking that can only help YOU.

Does all this sound like work?  You BET!  This's a JOB!  Even if it's a HOBBY it's a job!
Do you expect the photographer to put time & effort in to making this work & making the photos look good?  Well you should too!

As noted, not only should these tips keep you safe but they should step you up in terms of who you're working with.

Good luck, and be safe SENSIBLY!