Laurence Moan wrote:
The name Lolita ain't helping you any either.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? I'm still trying to understand the connection. If her name was Gertrude photographers wouldn't question her emancipation?

Lolita Lo wrote:
I'm 17 years old, however I live on my own, support myself, and posses several legal documents (i.e power of attorney) stating that I have the ability and sole power to sign any document regarding my career in the entertainment business. Basically they all say not only can I sign releases and such myself but I am responsible for any outcome from signing and my mother can no longer be held responsible nor can she prosper from my work.

I am confused.  You are only seventeen.  I am not aware of any state where a power of attorney can be granted to a minor.   The proper mechanism is "emancipation" wherein a court grants you the right to act on your own behalf.

The problem is three things.  First, I am not an attorney, nor am I an expert on the law in every state.  I suppose that in some states, a parent might be able to give you power of attorney to conduct your own business, but, not being a lawyer, I would be unwilling to accept it.  I would need to consult an attorney in my own state and have him review the documents you and then advise me as to the veracity of them as to my state law.  I would certainly not take your word for it and I doubt that I would go through the trouble.

Second, you are suggesting that you will do implied nudity.  Shooting with minors scares a lot of photographers to begin with.  The idea that you are willing to do implieds scares them more.  I will grant to you that most forms of implied are, in fact legal.  That doesn't change the general attitude of most that they don't want to do them, and thus, since you do, it concerns them.

Finally, there is a general reluctance on the part of many to work with models under eighteen.  Bearing in mind that you are clearly not going to come with a parent and that no parent will be involved, it is obvious why some will be reluctant.

You have to realize that, even if your power of attorney were enforceable, you are still a minor.  The document doesn't allow you to anything, in terms of modeling that any other model can.  It also doesn't relieve the photographer of any liability if parental consent is ever required.  By disavowing your parents you are making it more difficult, rather than less difficult to get work.

For the record, I work with teens all the time.  It has never been an issue with me.  I would, however, be concerned about shooting you without your parents being informed and without their signature on the release.  For a lot of shoots, a release isn't necessary, but I am a full-time professional.  I do not pay a model to shoot if I can't use her images.

So I understand everything that you are saying, but it is actually a lot more complicated than you seem to understand.  I do however, wish you the best.  I am sure you will find bookings, and once you turn eighteen, I am sure you will do well.

SayCheeZ! wrote:
Are you a fully emancipated minor according to law or did someone just think that giving you a power of attorney form was good enough to pass?

That is my concern as well.

SayCheeZ! wrote:
Even if those details are properly addressed, for many reasons most amateur photographers simply don't want to work with anyone under 18.  In light of the new 2257 rules photographers are more fearful than ever before, justified or not.

I don't think that 2257 has anything to do with this.  She is still seventeen, no matter what papers she has prepared.  No responsible photographer is going to shoot images of her that would require 2257 documentation.

I would, however, be very concerned about a "power of attorney" being valid in all states.  Indeed, she says she had an attorney prepare it.  My question is whether he prepared it for the state she was in or the state she was moving to.  I am quite certain that it wouldn't be valid in California since we have specific issues with minors and emancipation, particularly as it relates to the entertainment industry.

Lolita Lo wrote:
I'm 17 years old, however I live on my own, support myself, and posses several legal documents (i.e power of attorney) stating that I have the ability and sole power to sign any document regarding my career in the entertainment business. Basically they all say not only can I sign releases and such myself but I am responsible for any outcome from signing and my mother can no longer be held responsible nor can she prosper from my work.

ei Total Productions wrote:
I am confused.  You are only seventeen.  I am not aware of any state where a power of attorney can be granted to a minor.   The proper mechanism is "emancipation" wherein a court grants you the right to act on your own behalf.

I'll admit it:  I'm an attorney and she has me confused.  I'd want to look these documents over very carefully.  Honestly, it would probably be easier to just find a model who is over 18 and doesn't have these (potential) issues.

Michael Pandolfo wrote:

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? I'm still trying to understand the connection. If her name was Gertrude photographers wouldn't question her emancipation?

I'd say that Gertrude or Brittany serves her better when dealing with shooters who may be reluctant to dealing with minor, emancipated girls.
Lolita just exacerbates her problems.

ei Total Productions wrote:
I don't think that 2257 has anything to do with this.  She is still seventeen, no matter what papers she has prepared.  No responsible photographer is going to shoot images of her that would require 2257 documentation.

I agree with you there.

To clarify, I meant that many photographers may just decide not to work with anyone under 18 just to avoid any remote possibilty of a hassle or legal problem (which is why I stated 'justified or not').

I'm not an expert on 2257, nor do I pretend to be.  I haven't even read that much regarding the subject, but I know that many photographers are scared to shoot a minor at all due to the new rulings.  Once again, it's probably unjustified, but that's what many people are doing.

Lolita Lo wrote:
I'm going to scream!
I'm sorry, I guess this is more of a rant than anything but I'm really at a loss as what I should do.

Think of all the work you have gone to, time, trouble, and effort. Now think of this from the point of view of a prudent photographer. He is probably going to feel that he needs to go to a lot of effort to ensure that what you are telling him is accurate, covers his butt, AND is worth the extra effort to shoot with you compared to another 17 year old that falls into his normal way of doing business.

For me, I would have to see something that at least offsets the extra effort on my end.

Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
If you are an actual 'emancipated minor', then you have the rights to sign contracts. Otherwise, it may be in question.

KM

She has said that she is not emancipated, only that she holds a power of attorney.

4C 41 42 wrote:
I'll admit it:  I'm an attorney and she has me confused.  I'd want to look these documents over very carefully.  Honestly, it would probably be easier to just find a model who is over 18 and doesn't have these (potential) issues.

Here is your answer why a lot of photographers WON'T work with you.  It is just a lot easier without all the concern or worry.  There are too many girls out there WITHOUT these issues.

4C 41 42 wrote:
I'll admit it:  I'm an attorney and she has me confused.  I'd want to look these documents over very carefully.  Honestly, it would probably be easier to just find a model who is over 18 and doesn't have these (potential) issues.

Robert Sanders wrote:
Here is your answer why a lot of photographers WON'T work with you.  It is just a lot easier without all the concern or worry.  There are too many girls out there WITHOUT these issues.

QFT

Lolita Lo wrote:
The documents I have were prepared in accordance to Arkansas, Tennesse, and I believe Kansas. I've never claimed to know everything or even very much about thelaw, but considering we spent a good deal of money on a lawyer to write these documents up and make sure that there were valid it's frusturating that I'm having so much trouble.

There are good mechanics and there are bad mechanics.
There are good doctors and there are bad doctors.
There are good attorneys and there are bad attorneys.

Robert Sanders wrote:
Here is your answer why a lot of photographers WON'T work with you.  It is just a lot easier without all the concern or worry.  There are too many girls out there WITHOUT these issues.

Especially since it will be moot when OP turns 18 - from a photographer's perspective that's not a long time to wait.

If you were with an agency I'd accept that they'd checked everything and it was all legal.  Without an agency I'd feel like I'd have to run it all by my lawyer just in case and it's just not worth it for a one-time event.  Sorry, I don't care how many times you explain it, I'm not just going to take your word for it.  (Or anybody's - it's nothing about you in particular, I haven't even looked at your profile.)

SayCheeZ! wrote:
The way your explanation is phrased may still cast doubt in a photographers head (or even a legal professionals head for that matter).   Just because you have legal papers doesn't mean it's legal.

Are you a fully emancipated minor according to law or did someone just think that giving you a power of attorney form was good enough to pass?  (I may be wrong, but from what I know, only a court may give you the powers of an emancipated minor... anything else isn't binding).

Even if those details are properly addressed, for many reasons most amateur photographers simply don't want to work with anyone under 18.  In light of the new 2257 rules photographers are more fearful than ever before, justified or not.


*** addendum ***

Emancipation is not allowed in all states.

The first state listed on your MM portfolio is Arkansas.  Arkansas is one of the states that emancipation is not recognized, therefore you still would need a parent or legal guardian to sign legal documents for you.

You also list Tennessee, which happens to be another state that doesn't recognize emancipated minors.

The following link also indicates that a court must confirm that you are emancipated and/or allowed to sign your own contracts in Kansas and Oklahoma, which are the other states that you have listed.

http://www.jlc.org/factsheets/emancipationus/

This sums up my thoughts exactly! I don't work with minors because the laws that protect them can also work against a photographer if the model cries wolf. In any case, the legalities of working under 18 are pretty much written into stone. I've seen many a good photographer get wrapped around the axel, but some young female model of 17, wanted to screw the photographer. It doesn't take much now days. So regardless if you fend for yourself or not. A minor is a minor by being 18 and under, in the USA. Other parts of the world, its 16.--

So Good luck with your work! I don't think its just amateur photographers...I know for me I am NOT AN AMATEUR! HELL I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 25 YEARS...!

"...{There are} many reasons most amateur photographers simply don't want to work with anyone under 18.  In light of the new 2257 rules photographers are more fearful than ever before, justified or not."

Lolita Lo wrote:
I'm 17 years old, however I live on my own, support myself, and posses several legal documents (i.e power of attorney) stating that I have the ability and sole power to sign any document regarding my career in the entertainment business. Basically they all say not only can I sign releases and such myself but I am responsible for any outcome from signing and my mother can no longer be held responsible nor can she prosper from my work.

So things should be simple right?

I've got legal documents saying not only CAN I sign releases, contracts,  ect. ect. but I am the only one whoes signature is even legally binding, therefore I shouldn't have issues with photographers who insist they can't shoot without a parent signature regardless or worse without a parent present.


So somebody please tell me why only a select few photographers want to shoot with me now that I am legally in charge of my career. It's driving me up the wall, it took ages to get everything sorted out. I had thought that after all the legal work was done things would be simple, yet it's like  pulling teeth to try to explain that my mothers signature isn't even legally binding on a model release or ANY business centered document.

I can understand why photographers are leery of you.  I would be too.  Here's why:

1. You don't say where you live - and it matters.  The two states that you kind of indicate may be your residence have very different emancipation laws.  Both allow it, but in very different ways, and with different effect.  Without knowing your state of residence, I couldn't hazard a guess what you mean.

2.  You say you have "legal documents" (what legal documents?  Court orders?  What do they say?) and "powers of attorney".  Do you also have a court order or citation to state law wherever it is you live stating that a minor can exercise a contract based on a power of attorney?  Maybe you can . . . but I don't know that, and I want it to be proven to me.

3.  If you are in Tennessee, even though you are legally emancipated, you may not have the legal power to contract in your own name.  There is such a thing as "voluntary emancipation" which appears not to require a court order, but it comes in more than one form, and is limited.  From case law in Tennessee:

SONDRA A. MORGAN, PETITIONER-APPELLANT V. GENE A. MORGAN, RESPONDENT-APPELLEE
Court of Appeals of Tennessee, Eastern Section
1988 Tenn. App. LEXIS 792
December 7, 1988, Filed
. . .
Generally, voluntary emancipation requires the consent of the parent, express or implied, and involves an entire surrender of all the right to care, custody and the earnings of the  child, as well as a renunciation of the parental duties. An agreement, either in writing or parol, must be proven to support a voluntary emancipation of a minor, and proof thereof may be established by circumstances clearly showing a relinquishment by the parent of all parental responsibility and control. In absence of a formal agreement for voluntary emancipation of a minor, proof must show conduct wholly inconsistent with retention by the parent of any degree of parental responsibility or control, and the mere relinquishment of the right to the minor's earnings is not enough to establish emancipation.

Emancipation does not enlarge the minor's capacity to contract . . .

If you are in Arkansas, the law does allow for emancipation, but requires a court order:

TITLE 9. FAMILY LAW

SUBTITLE 3. MINORS

CHAPTER 26. RIGHTS RESPECTING BUSINESS AND PROPERTY

SUBCHAPTER 1. GENERAL PROVISIONS

§ 9-26-104. Removal of disability of a minor.

(a)  The circuit courts and the chancery courts of this state or the respective judges thereof in vacation shall have the power to authorize any person who is a resident of the county and who has reached his sixteenth birthday to transact business in general and any particular business specified in like manner and with the same effect as if such act or thing were done by a person who had attained majority. Every act done by a person so authorized shall have the same force and effect in law and equity as if done by a person of full age.

(b)  Letters testamentary, of administration, or of guardianship may be granted to any such person, if otherwise entitled by law to have or hold such fiduciary trust, with like effect as if granted to a person over the age of majority.

(c)  The order of removal of disabilities may be made by the courts, or the respective judges thereof, in term time or in vacation.

(d) (1)  The circuit and chancery courts of any county in which a nonresident minor of the State of Arkansas owns real estate, or any interest in real estate, shall have concurrent jurisdiction to remove the disabilities of minority of such minor where the person has reached sixteen (16) years of age, as to such real estate. This may be done to enable the minor to sell and convey the real estate, or any interest therein, which may be owned by the minor or to mortgage or otherwise dispose of the real estate, as fully and effectually as if the minor was of full age.

(2)  The order of removal of disabilities may be made by the courts, or the respective judges thereof in term time or in vacation, and, if made in vacation, shall be entered at large upon the records of the court.

(e)  After the filing of a petition to remove the disability of a minor, the court shall fix a time and place for hearing the petition. At least twenty (20) days before the date of the hearing, notice of the filing of the petition and of the time and place of the hearing shall be given by the petitioner to any parent or legal guardian of the minor who has not joined in the petition. The notice shall be given in the same manner as is provided for summons under the Arkansas Rules of Civil Procedure.

So, again, do you have a court order?  You don't say.

4.  Your profile indicates an interest in "Artistic implied nudity that doesn't breech state laws are fine however I will not shoot in outfits that are sluty or trashy. (There is a difference between sultry/sexy and sluty/trashy)".  While that may very well be legal under Tennessee law - and certainly is legal under Arkansas law - it will also scare no small number of photographers.  Taking that off your profile would be very advisable if you want people to contact you.

Robert Sanders wrote:

Here is your answer why a lot of photographers WON'T work with you.  It is just a lot easier without all the concern or worry.  There are too many girls out there WITHOUT these issues.

Exactly. Age issues, genre restrictions, legal questions, insistence on an escort - any one of these would make me move on to the next model. Put them all together, and it's a perfect storm of move-on.

Fotographic Aspirations wrote:
Until then the magic phrase applies - " Would you like fries with that, sir ? "

I'm sorry I take everything that everyone has said into great consideration, and I do see the point in everyones opinions however THIS phrase honestly


PISSES ME OFF.


I'm 17, that doesn't mean that I work at a fast food restraunt. As chance have it I have two good jobs and am a second year college student. That's degrading and I don't appreciated it.

Lolita Lo wrote:
I'm 17 years old, however I live on my own, support myself, and posses several legal documents (i.e power of attorney) stating that I have the ability and sole power to sign any document regarding my career in the entertainment business. Basically they all say not only can I sign releases and such myself but I am responsible for any outcome from signing and my mother can no longer be held responsible nor can she prosper from my work.

So things should be simple right?

I've got legal documents saying not only CAN I sign releases, contracts,  ect. ect. but I am the only one whoes signature is even legally binding, therefore I shouldn't have issues with photographers who insist they can't shoot without a parent signature regardless or worse without a parent present.


So somebody please tell me why only a select few photographers want to shoot with me now that I am legally in charge of my career. It's driving me up the wall, it took ages to get everything sorted out. I had thought that after all the legal work was done things would be simple, yet it's like  pulling teeth to try to explain that my mothers signature isn't even legally binding on a model release or ANY business centered document.


I'm going to scream!
I'm sorry, I guess this is more of a rant than anything but I'm really at a loss as what I should do.

I have the same problem =/

Lolita Lo wrote:

I'm sorry I take everything that everyone has said into great consideration, and I do see the point in everyones opinions however THIS phrase honestly


PISSES ME OFF.


I'm 17, that doesn't mean that I work at a fast food restraunt. As chance have it I have two good jobs and am a second year college student. That's degrading and I don't appreciated it.

I know how you feel.

JEBKA Photography wrote:
Nowhere in the Unites States do you actually need any type of document that says you can enter into a contract as a minor.

While that may be true for contracts in general, it is not true for model releases.  State law in Nebraska, Ohio, Tennessee and several other states requires that release contracts be signed by the parent or legal guardian of a minor.

Tennessee Code wrote:
47-25-1105. Unauthorized use prohibited.(a) Any person who knowingly uses or infringes upon the use of another individual's name, photograph, or likeness in any medium, in any manner directed to any person other than such individual, as an item of commerce for purposes of advertising products, merchandise, goods, or services, or for purposes of fund raising, solicitation of donations, purchases of products, merchandise, goods, or services, without such individual's prior consent, or, in the case of a minor, the prior consent of such minor's parent or legal guardian, or in the case of a deceased individual, the consent of the executor or administrator, heirs, or devisees of such deceased individual, shall be liable to a civil action.

Since Tennessee is one of the states that is relevant to the OP (where do you live, anyway?), I hesitate to judge what would happen if a power of attorney gave the minor the right to sign for her mother, but the statute required that the signature be by the parent.  I, for one, wouldn't accept the minor's signature as valid.

Fotographia Fantastique wrote:
ALSO

I just read your profile.
It says "No escort policy = No shoot".

That alone would make me not want to work with you.
You seem to be trying hard to convince us that you are a big girl, all grown up, but this idea that you need a babysitter seems to fly in the face of that.

What that means is I will not shoot unless I can bring an escort with me. I'm independent, not stupid.

Lolita Lo wrote:
What that means is I will not shoot unless I can bring an escort with me. I'm independent, not stupid.

Not that I'd shoot a minor without an escort present unless it was a situation where I was working with agencies, but are you saying models who don't use escorts are stupid, or only that models who're underage & don't use escorts are stupid?