This thread was locked on 2008-11-24 13:38:27
Model
Brittiany
Posts: 118
Dearborn, Michigan, US
I am 17 now and I feel that I look a few years older and I represent myself with a very mature attitude which makes me seem older than I am. I notice a lot of people getting WAY more attention when they have lingerie pics especially when I view people around me competing for similar jobs or photographer attention. I see other girls my age doing these shoots and I think maybe I should. But part of me feels like it may hurt my reputation more than help it since I am not professional or working with an exclusive agency.
How do you feel about underage lingerie shooting? Is it a pro or con of model life for 'youngsters'?
Photographer
Sophistocles
Posts: 21320
Seattle, Washington, US
I won't shoot anyone under 18 for any genre whatsoever. Any photographer who will shoot risque genres with someone under 18 is taking their own risk.
That said, who cares? Make up your own mind. Far be it from me to tell anyone what to do.
And on that note, excellent ploy to get people to look at your portfolio. I hope you get all the attention you want.
Photographer
Vito
Posts: 4581
Brooklyn, New York, US
Before the Bible-thumping, high-moral types start responding, let me get a word in.
First, lingerie shooting at 17 is not for everyone. The model must be mature and supported by family. Second, in real life modeling, many lingerie models (VS and others) are 16 or 17 or at least started at that age. If that's the market you are looking to get into, then 17 is fine. And it IS LEGAL, no matter what anyone might claim here. A warning, for you and your lingerie photographer: don't do anything sexually suggestive. That's where you can get fouled up.
Now we'll hear from at least some of the oppostion.
Model
Ava Laurynne
Posts: 79
Petersburg, Virginia, US
Brittainy, I dont think you have to do lingerie. I ve looked at your port. and you have a wonderful look. I kind of forgot that you are 17. Me personally at that age I would not do a lingerie shoot. But I also think that its up to you to determine whether you feel mature enough to do one. I am new to this and sometimes I feel that I want to take sexier pictures. But I also know that, my comfort level is not secure enough to stand in front of some one half naked. But I feel that you are smart enough and mature enough to make your own decisions. So just follow your heart. Hope I helped. Bye.
Photographer
Eros Artist Photography
Posts: 1562
Solomons, Maryland, US
Chris Ambler wrote:
I won't shoot anyone under 18 for any genre whatsoever. Any photographer who will shoot risque genres with someone under 18 is taking their own risk.
That said, who cares? Make up your own mind. Far be it from me to tell anyone what to do.
And on that note, excellent ploy to get people to look at your portfolio. I hope you get all the attention you want. Ditto -almost.....
I won't shoot lingerie or even swimwear with any model under the age of 18. However, I will shoot headshot, casual fashion, etc., with minor models provided a parent or legal guardian is on site, whether in studio or location, the entire time the shoot is underway, start to finish.
Bottom line: I don't think any reputable photographer, professional or otherwise, will shoot lingerie with minor models.
Bill Ballard
Blue Water Photography
Savannah, GA
912-220-9968
[email protected]
Photographer
Vito
Posts: 4581
Brooklyn, New York, US
Blue Water Photography wrote:
Ditto -almost.....
I won't shoot lingerie or even swimwear with any model under the age of 18. However, I will shoot headshot, casual fashion, etc., with minor models provided a parent or legal guardian is on site, whether in studio or location, the entire time the shoot is underway, start to finish.
Bottom line: I don't think any reputable photographer, professional or otherwise, will shoot lingerie with minor models. Then who's shooting for Victoria's Secret (et al) and runways? A good percentage of the (especially runway) models are under 18.
Photographer
Eros Artist Photography
Posts: 1562
Solomons, Maryland, US
Vito wrote:
Before the Bible-thumping, high-moral types start responding, let me get a word in.
First, lingerie shooting at 17 is not for everyone. The model must be mature and supported by family. Second, in real life modeling, many lingerie models (VS and others) are 16 or 17 or at least started at that age. If that's the market you are looking to get into, then 17 is fine. And it IS LEGAL, no matter what anyone might claim here. A warning, for you and your lingerie photographer: don't do anything sexually suggestive. That's where you can get fouled up.
Now we'll hear from at least some of the oppostion. I don't fell it's a question of legality - it's more of a question of preception, as to what's sexually suggestive, and in in some communities, posing in lingerie is just that to many people.
It may be legal, but it has the potential to become a huge legal headache. Doing such work simply isn't worth the risk, IMHO.
Bill Ballard
Blue Water Photography
Savannah, GA
912-220-9968
[email protected]
Photographer
MartinCoatesIV
Posts: 450
Panama City Beach, Florida, US
Brittiany wrote:
I am 17 now and I feel that I look a few years older and I represent myself with a very mature attitude which makes me seem older than I am. I notice a lot of people getting WAY more attention when they have lingerie pics especially when I view people around me competing for similar jobs or photographer attention. I see other girls my age doing these shoots and I think maybe I should. But part of me feels like it may hurt my reputation more than help it since I am not professional or working with an exclusive agency.
How do you feel about underage lingerie shooting? Is it a pro or con of model life for 'youngsters'? in Louisiana 17 is legal in most senses of the word. or just wait a year.
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Blue Water Photography wrote:
Bottom line: I don't think any reputable photographer, professional or otherwise, will shoot lingerie with minor models. George Bernard Shaw wrote:
Pardon him. Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature. Apparently you aren't familiar with the fashion industry.
Photographer
Eros Artist Photography
Posts: 1562
Solomons, Maryland, US
Vito wrote:
Then who's shooting for Victoria's Secret (et al) and runways? A good percentage of the (especially runway) models are under 18. A very valid point. Aren't most of those togs hired by Victoria's Secret or their repping agent? I was speaking more to issue of individuals working independently.
Bill Ballard
Blue Water Photography
Savannah, GA
912-220-9968
[email protected]
Photographer
Stephen Dawson
Posts: 29259
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Brittiany wrote:
I am 17 now and I feel that I look a few years older and I represent myself with a very mature attitude which makes me seem older than I am. I notice a lot of people getting WAY more attention when they have lingerie pics especially when I view people around me competing for similar jobs or photographer attention. I see other girls my age doing these shoots and I think maybe I should. But part of me feels like it may hurt my reputation more than help it since I am not professional or working with an exclusive agency.
How do you feel about underage lingerie shooting? Is it a pro or con of model life for 'youngsters'? Is lingerie work something that you will definitely be doing when you are 18?
Will you have family issues if you start at 17?
Just be sure that you stick to reputable work.
Good luck.
Photographer
photographybyfrank
Posts: 455
Clearwater, Florida, US
Brittiany wrote:
I am 17 now and I feel that I look a few years older and I represent myself with a very mature attitude which makes me seem older than I am. I notice a lot of people getting WAY more attention when they have lingerie pics especially when I view people around me competing for similar jobs or photographer attention. I see other girls my age doing these shoots and I think maybe I should. But part of me feels like it may hurt my reputation more than help it since I am not professional or working with an exclusive agency.
How do you feel about underage lingerie shooting? Is it a pro or con of model life for 'youngsters'? Do not be a follower.The attention you see others getting is not good attention
Photographer
Sophistocles
Posts: 21320
Seattle, Washington, US
Vito wrote:
Then who's shooting for Victoria's Secret (et al) and runways? A good percentage of the (especially runway) models are under 18. Photographers covered under Victoria's Secret's legal policy. If VS were to issue me a hold-harmless, I'd shoot just about anything.
But for me, a sole proprietor, I'm not prepared to risk my business (and my personal) assetts.
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Chris Ambler wrote:
Photographers covered under Victoria's Secret's legal policy. If VS were to issue me a hold-harmless, I'd shoot just about anything. That's not true on several levels.
1. VS has no such clause in their contracts with either models or photographers.
2. If they did, it would cover civil liability only, not criminal.
3. This isn't a VS issue, it's the fashion industry as a whole. VS is simply a particularly visible instance of it. Such shoots are widespread in the industry, with no "hold harmless" clauses. It's accepted in the fashion culture, and generally thought unremarkable.
Photographer
Sophistocles
Posts: 21320
Seattle, Washington, US
TXPhotog wrote:
That's not true on several levels.
1. VS has no such clause in their contracts with either models or photographers.
2. If they did, it would cover civil liability only, not criminal.
3. This isn't a VS issue, it's the fashion industry as a whole. VS is simply a particularly visible instance of it. Such shoots are widespread in the industry, with no "hold harmless" clauses. It's accepted in the fashion culture, and generally thought unremarkable. I was using VS as a generic example, but I would expect that any contract for services between a photographer and a publisher would have both a hold-harmless as well as a facility for filing under *either party's* E&O insurance.
Civil, yes. For criminal, I would simply point to the contract for services and claim detrimental reliance. Wouldn't you? But in a case where it's just me and a model, I have no third party with deep pockets to use as a safety net. Why risk it?
Photographer
legworkPhotography
Posts: 121
Detroit, Alabama, US
It really depends on the photographers intent or purpose of the photo's. I happen to shoot a great 17 year old model in swimwear who has full family support & we have discussed her portfolio & previous photographers prior to our shoot. Shes originally from Europe where sexuality is expressed more freely, but I went on to explain that it's our moral obligation here in the US to keep her a little settled until her 18th birthday.
My advice is your 17 a few more months won't hurt, wait it out your time will come & I promise you will have a lifetime for attention. You don't want to risk the reputation of your photographer while trying to enhance yours too early.
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
There can be a "hold harmless" for usage, but certainly not for something like lingerie (or topless) shoots of girls under 18. But the practice extends far beyond commercial client-photographer relationships. It is common in test shoots as well, where no contract is executed.
You seem to think this is a big thing that people are busily building walls around themselves to be insulated from. It's not. It's business as usual, and has been for many years. Fashion industry professionals look on conversations like this as a little silly.
Photographer
Cyberhawk Studios
Posts: 387
Mount Vernon, Washington, US
You have a bikini shot with 760 views, how much more attention do you need? Just say no to lingerie, you don't need it. Your 5'8" 110 lbs, you shouldn't have too much of a problem if you just let things happen naturally.
Photographer
ebarb
Posts: 866
Rochester, New York, US
Brittiany wrote:
I am 17 now and I feel that I look a few years older and I represent myself with a very mature attitude which makes me seem older than I am. I notice a lot of people getting WAY more attention when they have lingerie pics especially when I view people around me competing for similar jobs or photographer attention. I see other girls my age doing these shoots and I think maybe I should. But part of me feels like it may hurt my reputation more than help it since I am not professional or working with an exclusive agency.
How do you feel about underage lingerie shooting? Is it a pro or con of model life for 'youngsters'? Hello,
Just for the record I'm not a lawyer, and not a bible thumper...my question would be are you currently getting "real" paying commercial or other types of work (not internet modeling jobs with hack photogs)...is that your goal? Are there currently real jobs in your area for lingerie models...if not do you want to do lingerie jobs with internet photographers because if there are no real jobs, then who's left? And is the "attention" others are getting, getting them REAL jobs?
eric
Photographer
area291
Posts: 2525
Calabasas, California, US
Most everyone here has missed the most vital point. At 17, or whatever age, the important thing is to learn "how" to model, not "what" to model.
Model
Angie Borras
Posts: 1933
Kissimmee, Florida, US
I think you should wait until you are 18 why you want to look more mature so fast you will eventually get there no time to rush. Maybe if you wait you would change your mind or not. But there are a lot of models that wish they could be 16 and 17 and agencies dont really like 16 &17 year olds looking older than what they are thats why the hiring them because they want the models to look young not older.
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Intensity wrote:
agencies dont really like 16 &17 year olds looking older than what they are thats why the hiring them because they want the models to look young not older. If you mean by this that agencies don't want the physical features and skin of their models to appear older than 16 or 17, that's absolutely right - and totally irrelevant to this discussion.
If you mean that fashion agencies (this girl is 5'8" and size 2) don't want their models to look sophisticated and worldly at 16 and 17, that's absolutely wrong. And they certainly don't have a problem with sophisticated outfits, or clothing that might typically be worn by older women. That's what fashion is all about . . . .
Photographer
Bob Helm Photography
Posts: 18906
Cherry Hill, New Jersey, US
If you are 17 this becomes a moot point in several months, most independent photographers will not shoot an underage model in anything that may be considered risque by "community standards", these may be considerably different in NY,LA etc and Smallville
bob
Photographer
MichaelHaynes
Posts: 136
Norfolk, Virginia, US
Vito wrote:
Before the Bible-thumping, high-moral types start responding, let me get a word in.
First, lingerie shooting at 17 is not for everyone. The model must be mature and supported by family. Second, in real life modeling, many lingerie models (VS and others) are 16 or 17 or at least started at that age. If that's the market you are looking to get into, then 17 is fine. And it IS LEGAL, no matter what anyone might claim here. A warning, for you and your lingerie photographer: don't do anything sexually suggestive. That's where you can get fouled up.
Now we'll hear from at least some of the oppostion. I think the legal term you want is sexually "exploitive or explicit" not "suggestive". At least that is what a reading of the US CODE: Title 18,2251 says.
(By the way...I didn't know that the death penanlty could be applied to child exploitation cases, like, you know, if you get into a car accident while transporting a child to or from a sexually explicit or exploitive shoot and the child dies.... interesting.)
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html … -000-.html
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 110 > § 2251
§ 2251. Sexual exploitation of children
(a) Any person who employs, uses, persuades, induces, entices, or coerces any minor to engage in, or who has a minor assist any other person to engage in, or who transports any minor in interstate or foreign commerce, or in any Territory or Possession of the United States, with the intent that such minor engage in, any sexually explicit conduct for the purpose of producing any visual depiction of such conduct, shall be punished as provided under subsection (e), if such person knows or has reason to know that such visual depiction will be transported in interstate or foreign commerce or mailed, if that visual depiction was produced using materials that have been mailed, shipped, or transported in interstate or foreign commerce by any means, including by computer, or if such visual depiction has actually been transported in interstate or foreign commerce or mailed.
(b) Any parent, legal guardian, or person having custody or control of a minor who knowingly permits such minor to engage in, or to assist any other person to engage in, sexually explicit conduct for the purpose of producing any visual depiction of such conduct shall be punished as provided under subsection (e) of this section, if such parent, legal guardian, or person knows or has reason to know that such visual depiction will be transported in interstate or foreign commerce or mailed, if that visual depiction was produced using materials that have been mailed, shipped, or transported in interstate or foreign commerce by any means, including by computer, or if such visual depiction has actually been transported in interstate or foreign commerce or mailed.
(c)
(1) Any person who, in a circumstance described in paragraph (2), employs, uses, persuades, induces, entices, or coerces any minor to engage in, or who has a minor assist any other person to engage in, any sexually explicit conduct outside of the United States, its territories or possessions, for the purpose of producing any visual depiction of such conduct, shall be punished as provided under subsection (e).
(2) The circumstance referred to in paragraph (1) is thatâ
(A) the person intends such visual depiction to be transported to the United States, its territories or possessions, by any means, including by computer or mail; or
(B) the person transports such visual depiction to the United States, its territories or possessions, by any means, including by computer or mail.
(d)
(1) Any person who, in a circumstance described in paragraph (2), knowingly makes, prints, or publishes, or causes to be made, printed, or published, any notice or advertisement seeking or offeringâ
(A) to receive, exchange, buy, produce, display, distribute, or reproduce, any visual depiction, if the production of such visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct and such visual depiction is of such conduct; or
(B) participation in any act of sexually explicit conduct by or with any minor for the purpose of producing a visual depiction of such conduct;
shall be punished as provided under subsection (e).
(2) The circumstance referred to in paragraph (1) is thatâ
(A) such person knows or has reason to know that such notice or advertisement will be transported in interstate or foreign commerce by any means including by computer or mailed; or
(B) such notice or advertisement is transported in interstate or foreign commerce by any means including by computer or mailed.
(e) Any individual who violates, or attempts or conspires to violate, this section shall be fined under this title and imprisoned not less than 15 years nor more than 30 years, but if such person has one prior conviction under this chapter, chapter 71, chapter 109A, or chapter 117, or under section 920 of title 10 (article 120 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice), or under the laws of any State relating to the sexual exploitation of children, such person shall be fined under this title and imprisoned for not less than 25 years nor more than 50 years, but if such person has 2 or more prior convictions under this chapter, chapter 71, chapter 109A, or chapter 117, or under section 920 of title 10 (article 120 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice), or under the laws of any State relating to the sexual exploitation of children, such person shall be fined under this title and imprisoned not less than 35 years nor more than life. Any organization that violates, or attempts or conspires to violate, this section shall be fined under this title. Whoever, in the course of an offense under this section, engages in conduct that results in the death of a person, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.
And the endless amendments and annotations are here:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html … notes.html
Photographer
Canadian Eros
Posts: 14
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I think the problem is just defining what's right for an underage model. It certainly depends on the model, her family, and the goals. The honest truth is there's nothing wrong with it as long as it's done right.
I'd just recommend to any model that they should discuss it with their parent or legal guardian and be clear with the photographer what you are willing to do. If nothing else, compromise on something that works.
Photographer
RudeFood
Posts: 36
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
Brittiany wrote:
I am 17 now and I feel that I look a few years older and I represent myself with a very mature attitude which makes me seem older than I am. I notice a lot of people getting WAY more attention when they have lingerie pics especially when I view people around me competing for similar jobs or photographer attention. I see other girls my age doing these shoots and I think maybe I should. But part of me feels like it may hurt my reputation more than help it since I am not professional or working with an exclusive agency. Girls your age should *NOT* be doing them, or promoting them. We have a society that is saying one thing, and doing another. There is *NO REASON* for a 17 y/o to wear lingerie, much less model it. Underwear, yes. Lingerie, no.
How do you feel about underage lingerie shooting? Is it a pro or con of model life for 'youngsters'? Lingerie is to sell sex. Personally, I don't see anyone under 24 as "sexy", and even that may be a stretch. Want smooth bodies, clean lines, and all that, well, then it's selling sex. Using younger people to sell older people items, is wrong, misleading, and pushing our kids into age-inappropriate behaviors way too young.
What bother's me more than the answers given here, and the discussion about this, is that the discussion came up at all -- by the model even.
Has the dollar gotten so important that any common sense, human decency, and protection of individuals is irrelevant?
Girl, get naked and flash your tits, and you *WILL* get more attention -- at least for a few minutes -- but is it the attention you want?
Do you want the moths attracted to the flame because they have no choice, or do you want to be appreciated for what and who you are, simply because those doing so appreciate you?
And, for those bible thumpers out there, I'd have much less issue with her posing nude, doing art work, running around in a nudist environment than modeling lingerie. When her age is an issue, and her images are sexually suggestive, then there is ALWAYS a problem.
It's all about context, and purpose, and subliminal messages (eg: sex sells, sex sells, sex sells... it's ok to be sexual at 16....)
And, for sexually suggestive -- why else sell or showcase lingerie, so don't bother to argue that point.
But, again, I'm more flaberghasted at the fact this has come up, minors feeling they have to be sexual to be "appreciated" or "get attention" that I'm seriously thinking about pulling the plugs on my kids electronics and Internet.
Rude Food is a way of life.
Model
Stormey
Posts: 95
Clearwater, Florida, US
I've been racking my brain trying to think of a Victoria's Secret model under 18, and I can't. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm curious if anyone else can name one.
Photographer
Vaughnteper
Posts: 1
Jacksonville, Florida, US
I feel now and have always felt that underage girls and guys should spend their young years pursuing things appropriate to their age. Strangely enough the mentality of the youth today is to "grow up quick and quicker"..........
A lot of young girls are making fist-fulls of cash doing this and it is a sad testement not to the models or photographers but to the consumer environment itself. If you would accept my humble two cents I would wish you all the luck in succeeding without the use of this "oh so obvious" ploy. You do not need to display yourself in that manner to succeed.
I am a heavily religious person but will spare you all the "bible-thumping" because it is of no bearing here. As for my end I will pray for your success in whatever your next venture and I hope the choice you make will be the best one for the person this matters to: you.
God Bless
Photographer
Vito
Posts: 4581
Brooklyn, New York, US
RudeFood wrote:
Lingerie is to sell sex. Personally, I don't see anyone under 24 as "sexy", and even that may be a stretch. First, Lingerie is to sell lingerie. When it comes down to it, that's what VS is having models model lingerie for. To sell their inventory.
What did you do when you were 19 or 20. Those 18-23 year old co-eds looked like 10 year olds to you? You didn't think they were sexy?
Photographer
Brian Kim
Posts: 508
Honolulu, Hawaii, US
Hmmmmm, okay, as a commercial shooter, if a client brings a model to the table who is over 18 but looks younger for a lingerie or for a t-back or thong bikini shoot, I would question the motivation openly due to the fact that the target market for such products is not necessarily the under 18 market.
As a firm rule, I do not shoot anything overtly sexual with an underaged model. I have been on shoots with model's mothers present who are directing their daughters to portray a sexy look. I have also stopped shoots and sent everyone home.
If that's what you're interested in, wait till you're 18 and can sign the contracts legally. Then there is no question and everything is above board.Till then, enjoy youth because it ain't ever coming back around!
Photographer
area291
Posts: 2525
Calabasas, California, US
RudeFood wrote:
Rude Food is a way of life. Let me guess; after that diatribe the main course is Quaker Oats.
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 18832
Albany, New York, US
Brittiany wrote:
How do you feel about underage lingerie shooting? Is it a pro or con of model life for 'youngsters'? I think its more of a reflection on the photographer than anything else, specifically because what merit can you get out of shooting a minor in lingerie unless its specifically for a Sears catalog or something. Its also a way to get the minor to see as much skin as possible w/o breaking the law.
I would also seriously question the judgement of the model minor. Yes, there are those girls that can handle doing so & work w/ good photographers (however that's defined). But a lot of times the majority of young girls (of all ages) are so excited to work w/ ANY photographer that the model will work w/ them under any conditions. It IS ok for a model to assert her boundaries, yet a lot of people "tough it out."
Basically I don't shoot nudes, semi-nudes, or lingerie of anyone under 18. This is not to say that I don't shoot minors at all...I just keep it age approriate.
Its to easy to be misconstrued (like if the model is into doing it but their parents don't know of it...or if the parent is ok w/ it but changes their mind later) not to mention that I have enough headaches in my life w/o having the FBI come knocking on my door.
Ultimately, just keep doing your own thing & work hard.
Photographer
William Coleman
Posts: 2371
New York, New York, US
Like many photogs who have spoken, I don't shoot lingerie with models under 18. Actually, I don't shoot anything with models under 18. No need to, there are a zillion models 18 and over. But there's nothing inherently wrong with an under-age model shooting lingerie. It just needs to be strictly controlled by the model's parents.
Photographer
Darryl Reece
Posts: 70
Hollywood, Florida, US
I'm with Bill!
I don't care who's doing what, I don't shoot models under 18 in lingerie. I'm strictly business in a shoot, but all it takes is one disgruntled minor or parent starting something that spirals out of control. I don't want - or need - that kind of trouble. People do it Brittiany, but it does get tricky. Its hard for a photographer to see you as a minor, in lingerie-when trying to get the maximum shot. Also parents (who should be with you at all times) tend to be disturbed by their minor-aged daughter in lingerie. Do your own thing; the attention will come. My advice: refine your other modeling skills. Wait till you're 18, then you'll have posing & lingerie-which will make for a much better photo session.
Photographer
Richard Tallent
Posts: 7136
Beaumont, Texas, US
Your portfolio already has some great shots, I think you'd be better served spending the next few months nailing your poses and expressions and rounding out your portfolio with more editorial fashion and less urban-glam. More expressions, fewer clubbing outfits, etc.
I'm not recommending this because you are 17, I'm recommending it because you are new to modeling but it looks like you might already be type-casting yourself.
One of my favorite shots of you is the one in the white dress. The photo is terrible and the dress is a little 90210-era, but your pose is great, the clothing shows off your figure, and your facial angle is much more flattering than the "pouty profile" in some other shots, which eggagerates the width of your face.
If you haven't already done so, start going through fashion magazines and tearing out pages you like, whether because they are sexy, classy, "fierce" (apologies to Tyra), or whatever. Figure out what makes those poses and wardrobe choices work and incorporate those concepts into your next shoot and see if you can get a more well-rounded *clothed* portfolio before trying to branch out in other directions.
Photographer
Visual E
Posts: 215
Wellington, Colorado, US
If an under 18 model has a good reason to model lingerie or swimwear, I'll do it providing the release is co-signed by the parents and that a parent chaperones the photoshoot (not a friend). I will not do TFPCDs. It's paid work only. I don't use the photos for my "stock".
In fact,all under 18 models must have a co-signed release and parent chaperone. The release states the type of clothing and style that will be shot. The "mom" has always been a great help at these shoots.
Of course implied nudes or "sexy poses" is not an option even with parental consent/involvement.
This is not being judgemental about whether under 18 models are physically, emotionally, or intellectually ready to model. It's just being safe and clearly operating in a way where there can be no misunderstandings or problems with the law. Under 18 models have every right to develop their interests and I try and provide a safe way for them that all parties are comfortable with.
Photographer
MurphyMurphy Studios
Posts: 2315
Denver, Colorado, US
Blue Water Photography wrote:
Bottom line: I don't think any reputable photographer, professional or otherwise, will shoot lingerie with minor models. Somebody better tell this to all of those full-time, highly compensated, NYC fashion photogs that shoot under-18 year old models in lingerie all the time.
Who is first in line to tell them that they are not reputable? Any takers?
Seriously, while shooting an underage model in lingerie or swim wear can raise some concerns and is likely not for every photographer (me included, as I shy away from shooting under age models -- male or female), your statement is just far too broad.
Photographer
MurphyMurphy Studios
Posts: 2315
Denver, Colorado, US
Chris Ambler wrote:
For criminal, I would simply point to the contract for services and claim detrimental reliance. Wouldn't you? You could try but, good luck...... If the underlying activity is illegal (note, I am not saying that shooting a 17 year old in lingerie is illegal -- I am only using this as an example) you can't use detrimental reliance as an arguement.....
"Your honor, I had a contract to distribute this 200 pounds of cocaine. I relied on the contract..... I should not be charged" Ya, right.
If the images you take of an underage model are found to be illegal, no contract that you have with VS or anyone else will save you.....
Photographer
Christofer Rodriguez
Posts: 156
San Bernardino, California, US
"She said she was Eighteen your honor..," yeah - definitely not something I like to have to explain...
Photographer
MichaelHaynes
Posts: 136
Norfolk, Virginia, US
Interesting side note in reading the law. It specifically states "(B) participation in any act of sexually explicit conduct by or with any minor for the purpose of producing a visual depiction of such conduct;" which acts to separate photographing a minor engaging in sex from the actual act of sex. I guess that is because there are still a few weird states that allow sex with a 14 year old, and others with 16 and 17 year olds.
So...what's the federal government saying? Photography is federally regulated but having sex with minors isn't? Weird world.
In answer to the OPs question:
Take your time. Lingerie and nudes do not boost careers. Unless your career goal is to be seen semi-nude and buck naked all over the world for the pud-pullers to drool and drip over.
You have your plans set to go to California this summer to try and make it. I would suggest that you do not handicap yourself by stripping down, even to lingerie. Rule of thumb: Famous people may do nudes, nude people rarely get famous.
You have looks and apparently some talent. Build on that, not your bare-ish body.
You know how a girl can walk around on a beach in a bikini and get barely a glance, but her skirt blows up in public and everyone looks around and is enticed by a flash of thigh? Same holds true with modelling and acting. The tease gets more gigs.
One other point to consider: The industry is over saturated with bare bodies at the moment. Serious agencies have been turning away people with too much skin in their portfolio/work history. The industry is looking for something different, something new, these days.
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