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Underage models in Europe
I generally decline to shoot underage models, even if the shoot wouldn't include any hint of nudity or sexiness. I guess that's based on sensitivities built up living in the USA for 15-odd years. I'm now looking for some models in Holland and I'm surprised how many models are under 18 and how many photographers answer their casting calls as if the whole age thing isn't an issue. So, for those who are familiar with the Dutch or European scene, what are the 'rules' and boundaries to shooting a model under 18? Jun 22 09 10:33 pm Link Seriously Superficial wrote: The rules vary by country but the Dutch are quite liberal in that respect. Jun 22 09 11:10 pm Link In the UK it is illegal to take an indecent image of an under 18. The key word is indecent. The key fact is that this word has NOT been defined in a court of law. Be careful in the UK. Jun 22 09 11:11 pm Link Under 18s can be photographed in Europe providing you do not take indecent shots or sexually suggestive shots. Nudity has been published in fashion magazines and not been questioned. Over here we kind of think that bare skin does not have to be shot for sexual stimulation. It can be beautiful and intrinsic to the shot. Unfortunately, although beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so too is eroticism. Jun 22 09 11:15 pm Link The Dutch are great family people, and most parents like to be involved in everything their children do. This may sound restrictive, but it isn't, openness is the key, and meeting the parents is a very good idea. The Dutch also speak better English than Americans! Jun 22 09 11:28 pm Link Ray Holyer wrote: There you go again. Rubbing it in. LOL Jun 23 09 01:15 am Link If you don't do it at home, don't do it somewhere else either. Jun 23 09 01:27 am Link Ray Holyer wrote: Ya think ? Say it ain't so... Jun 23 09 01:32 am Link Ray Holyer wrote: EDITED, Self censored comment.... Jun 23 09 01:36 am Link Ray Holyer wrote: And better than the English too! Jun 23 09 01:37 am Link WMcK wrote: I won't argue with that, but I'd rather you didn't mention it! Jun 23 09 02:31 am Link digitalfrog wrote: Is that the rule you use, Mr. Frenchman in Amsterdam? Jun 23 09 04:04 am Link No, not necessarily, as long as you shoot 'decent' pictures and you know in front the model has permission of her parents. Nudity or close to that is absolutely a no-go in my opinion. Unfortunately some photographers have given model photography a very bad name. Jun 23 09 04:47 am Link Interesting topic. I am setting up a shoot in September with a model in the Ukraine. She might be 18 by the time we shoot. I am not sure. But, I communicated to her that since I am an American I will shoot her by what is appropriate for an underage model by American standards. Now, as many of you know, I think that actually paints a wide but well tailored swath. But, to be safe, I am using the "home" standard on the "away" field. The last thing I need is an American federal prosecutor thinking I am away on a sex tourism trip. (To make things more "fun", she doesn't speak a word of English and I just found out she at one time had a "teen modeling" website. Which is unnerving me a tad. Does anyone know of an enclave of Eastern European models closer to home? Could save me $3000) Jun 23 09 12:35 pm Link Seriously Superficial wrote: Europeans are liberal in some ways, unspeakably repressive in others such as "free speech." The repressive part is getting worse because of the huge influx of Muslims. Rotterdam, for example, is close to being the first city in Europe to become majority Muslim. Although I haven't done other than touristy shooting in Europe, attitudes toward nudity are obviously more casual, especially in Northern Europe. Jun 23 09 12:42 pm Link Others probably got my point. Anyhow, here a recent example (3 days ago). I'm shooting with a young model (17 years old) for a jeans company. The jean company suggests that the model (without knowing her age) shoots topless - but with her arms across her chest. My immediate answer is NO. Anything too suggestive would be a no... But it's not the government rules that made me say no, it's my own judgement. And it won't change if I travel abroad...... Seriously Superficial wrote: Jun 23 09 12:48 pm Link Seriously Superficial wrote:
Jun 23 09 01:49 pm Link Just shoot and keep it conservative, no skin & no suggestive poses and have her Mum on set at all times. The UK law is a complete mess. i.e. To shoot a naked 11 year old reading a book may be legal, where as a fully dressed 17 year old mother of two standing in a suggestive pose is illegal. Don't push the limits it just ain't worth it. Jun 23 09 02:05 pm Link GDS Photos wrote: That's going in the quotations thread. Jun 23 09 02:18 pm Link " Remember Jock Sturges ", should be the rallying cry, just like, " Remember the Alamo ". Just because it's legal to shoot in Holland, doesn't mean, that it's legal to bring back in or transmit, in to the U.K., or the States. As far as, who speaks the best English, only the queen speaks, the " The Queen's English ". The rest of us sound like Ozzy Osborne. Jun 23 09 04:10 pm Link I've worked in fashion both as a model and now as a photographer and have been based in Prague, Czech Republic, for the last 6 years. Obviously laws vary from country to country, but here in Czech it's illegal to shoot pornographic pictures of anyone under the age of 18. However, topless pictures or nude butts are NOT considered pornography. I know many fashion models between the ages of 15-18 that have appeared topless, or in sheer garments such that their breasts/nipples are visible, in major high-end publications throughout Europe (Vogue, Elle, etc.), on their own agency websites, on catwalks or just at the beach/lake/pool. Anywhere but Italy, Ireland and the UK and possibly Romania, bare breasts are generally not a big deal, in magazines or at the beach/lake/pool. As such, as long as her actual waterworks are hidden by something (be it a garment, a leaf, a playing card, a currency note, a hat or whatever), you're on safe ground. However, you should make sure that both she and her agency are comfortable with it. Jun 24 09 08:36 am Link rules mean nothing. hang-ups mean everything. follow your creativety alone. Jun 24 09 08:38 am Link |
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