Glam Luxx Makeup wrote:
Does anyone have a sample Makeup Artist TFP Contract? I have been searching and searching for one, and nothing. Can anyone help me out? :.)

This is the first time I've heard about a tfp contract with an MUA. In a fashion photoshoot I'd guess there will be at least 5 people involve in a photoshoot, and in multiple models, I've seen where 20 or more trades are involved on the set. If each different trade were to ask for a contract, I'd guess the photoshoot will never happen.

Glam Luxx Makeup wrote:
Does anyone have a sample Makeup Artist TFP Contract? I have been searching and searching for one, and nothing. Can anyone help me out? :.)

not a bad idea to talk with the photographer about expectations.  rather than going all contract on them, it might be best to just ask if they could find it in their heart to provide one great shot per look.  reasonable shooters will probably willingly oblige.  moral:  don't work with models shooting with those unreasonable when working tf*.

Glam Luxx Makeup wrote:
Does anyone have a sample Makeup Artist TFP Contract? I have been searching and searching for one, and nothing. Can anyone help me out? :.)

There's no such thing really...I mean you COULD do it, but it would rub a LOT of people the wrong way.

Many photographers will gladly give consent to published work if it means a credited tear for them, aside from that, you do not need a contract to post photos in your portfolio. Unless you are paying the photographer, don't bring a contract.

Glam Luxx Makeup wrote:
Does anyone have a sample Makeup Artist TFP Contract? I have been searching and searching for one, and nothing. Can anyone help me out? :.)

So let's say that you make an agreement, and let's say the photographer decides not to give you pictures or uphold their end of the deal.


Then what?

Andrew Thomas Designs wrote:

So let's say that you make an agreement, and let's say the photographer decides not to give you pictures or uphold their end of the deal.


Then what?

The same thing that happens whenever anyone breaks a contract involving anything free:

pretty much nothing.

Certainly that would make the photographer a dick, and you're welcome to sue...but don't expect to win much more than a bill for court fees:)

Jordan Liberty wrote:
The same thing that happens whenever anyone breaks a contract involving anything free:

pretty much nothing.

Certainly that would make the photographer a dick, and you're welcome to sue...but don't expect to win much more than a bill for court fees:)

Yup.

Andrew Thomas Designs wrote:
So let's say that you make an agreement, and let's say the photographer decides not to give you pictures or uphold their end of the deal.


Then what?

both the model and mua artist will tell others about working with a prick.

Glam Luxx Makeup wrote:
This contract is to ensure that I get the amount of pictures I was told I would get, and that they get sent to me by a certain amount of time.

So let's say you shoot with me, and let's say I sign your sheet of paper, and then (because I'm lazy with free shoots lately) don't get you the images for a few months - what then, if the sheet of paper I signed said 10 finished images in a week?

Glam Luxx Makeup wrote:
...pictures...

forget the pluralization.  you only need one great shot per look.  that's how the book should be built.

291 wrote:
both the model and mua artist will tell others about working with a prick.

That's about it, but that doesn't take a sheet of paper now does it?


So what value would that contract have?

Andrew Thomas Designs wrote:
So let's say you shoot with me, and let's say I sign your sheet of paper, and then (because I'm lazy with free shoots lately) don't get you the images for a few months -

if one is too lazy or busy it calls into question, "why would you be shooting tf*?"  wouldn't you think the whole idea behind it includes quick turnaround...at least for some of the imaging?

Glam Luxx Makeup wrote:
The value of the contract would be the signature agreeing to the terms.

But what are you going to do if and when that contract is broken?

Sue over a free shoot?

Glam Luxx Makeup wrote:
The value of the contract would be the signature agreeing to the terms.

wrong approach.  get over it.

Glam Luxx Makeup wrote:
This contract is to ensure that I get the amount of pictures I was told I would get, and that they get sent to me by a certain amount of time.

I would suggest that you include the uses that you expect to have for the images... ie. portfolio, fliers, poster in your place of business.

Glam Luxx Makeup wrote:
The value of the contract would be the signature agreeing to the terms.

291 wrote:
wrong approach.  get over it.

She's new.  She'll learn.

Glam Luxx Makeup wrote:
The value of the contract would be the signature agreeing to the terms.

That's not a value. How would you pursue a broken contract where no capital was exchanged?

Make a good connection with your photographer and he will most likely make sure that you receive photos and are permitted to use them for personal use. A contract will do nothing but rub people the wrong way, and will most likely deter people from working with you.

Other than a model release, test shoots rarely involve any other contracts.

A contract on a test shoot is kind of pointless. Should I sue every model that flakes?

Jordan Liberty wrote:

That's not a value. How would you pursue a broken contract where no capital was exchanged?

Make a good connection with your photographer and he will most likely make sure that you receive photos and are permitted to use them for personal use. A contract will do nothing but rub people the wrong way, and will most likely deter people from working with you.

Other than a model release, test shoots rarely involve any other contracts.

A contract on a test shoot is kind of pointless. Should I sue every model that flakes?

Could we rewind for just half a second... the op mentions TF it says nothing about the more formal, real-world, brick-and-mortar  "test".... the op is asking for a 'contract'... lets read that as agreement which would spell out the term of said agreement. This is one of the most sensible things that we have seen around here in a while.
If the OP is not charging a "kit fee" why should she not have some sort of written agreement in place to protect her investment?

NewBoldPhoto wrote:
Could we rewind for just half a second... the op mentions TF it says nothing about the more formal, real-world, brick-and-mortar  "test".... the op is asking for a 'contract'... lets read that as agreement which would spell out the term of said agreement. This is one of the most sensible things that we have seen around here in a while.
If the OP is not charging a "kit fee" why should she not have some sort of written agreement in place to protect her investment?

Because it doesn't protect anything at all.

I can't believe I have to explain this to a photographer.

And also, I hate to correct you, but if a MUA is charging a 'kit fee,' you're being scammed or working with an amateur. Kit fees are a term used for film work, and do not apply to photography. A kit fee is there to replenish kit items that will be drained during the course of a film. There's such thing as a 'test fee,' but that's something different all-together in your eyes. Terms like 'tfp' are the reason that modelmayhem has so many people confused. It's a make-believe world on here:)

But I'll play devil's advocate just for fun:

What happens if the photographer violates the agreement? Absolutely nothing. If the agreement is made with a consequence (ie: will not be PAID unless agreement is with-held), then it may hold some validity...otherwise it's a just piece of paper, a waste of ink, and a waste of time.

A verbal or emailed agreement holds the same value in this case, if not more.

Jordan Liberty wrote:

Because it doesn't protect anything at all.

I can't believe I have to explain this to a photographer.

And also, I hate to correct you, but if a MUA is charging a 'kit fee,' you're being scammed or working with an amateur. Kit fees are a term used for film work, and do not apply to photography. A kit fee is there to replenish kit items that will be drained during the course of a film. There's such thing as a 'test fee,' but that's something different all-together in your eyes. Terms like 'tfp' are the reason that modelmayhem has so many people confused. It's a make-believe world on here:)

But I'll play devil's advocate just for fun:

What happens if the photographer violates the agreement? Absolutely nothing. If the agreement is made with a consequence (ie: will not be PAID unless agreement is with-held), then it may hold some validity...otherwise it's a just piece of paper, a waste of ink, and a waste of time.

A verbal or emailed agreement holds the same value in this case, if not more.

I would counter that there is value in the exercise of articulating expectations and that the true value of a written agreement is that it defines expectations...
I am all too well aware of the 'facts' one must accept out in the real world of business. I know what lawyers cost and I know what it is to accept half rate for a job rather then loose the whole fee.
Still this is MM... 'fantasy land' perhaps those that understand how it works in real life could interject a bit of direction into the fantasy as the simple truth has been totally ineffective so far.

NewBoldPhoto wrote:
I would counter that there is value in the exercise of articulating expectations and that the true value of a written agreement is that it defines expectations...
I am all too well aware of the 'facts' one must accept out in the real world of business. I know what lawyers cost and I know what it is to accept half rate for a job rather then loose the whole fee.
Still this is MM... 'fantasy land' perhaps those that understand how it works in real life could interject a bit of direction into the fantasy as the simple truth has been totally ineffective so far.

The truth has been clear from the beginning: the OP has a right to write up a contract, but it would be completely pointless and counterproductive - and would not do anything to deter the photographer from changing their mind. It's just as effective as a quick email, and an email will most likely preserve established relationships more effectively.

Never mind the fact that it's completely ridiculous and unheard of for a test or "tfp" shoot outside of social networking websites. I hate this MM mentality that 'if it sounds okay, it is,' and anyone in here who actually knows better is considered looney. If kit fees, tfp, and contracts on TEST shoots are things you consider 'real life,' then maybe my argument here is pointless...as it actually contains reality. On that note, I concede, I've articulated my opinion and experience on the subject. Take it or leave it. Quite frankly, I could care less either way - I'm just here to help.

Jordan Liberty wrote:

The truth has been clear from the beginning: the OP has a right to write up a contract, but it would be completely pointless and counterproductive - and would not do anything to deter the photographer from changing their mind. It's just as effective as a quick email, and an email will most likely preserve established relationships more effectively.

Never mind the fact that it's completely ridiculous and unheard of for a test or "tfp" shoot outside of social networking websites. I hate this MM mentality that 'if it sounds okay, it is,' and anyone in here who actually knows better is considered looney. If kit fees, tfp, and contracts on TEST shoots are things you consider 'real life,' then maybe my argument here is pointless...as it actually contains reality. On that note, I concede, I've articulated my opinion and experience on the subject. Take it or leave it. Quite frankly, I could care less either way - I'm just here to help.

I fear that you miss my point entirely.

Andrew Thomas Designs wrote:

That's about it, but that doesn't take a sheet of paper now does it?


So what value would that contract have?

The "value" it would have would be the value you agree [in trade] or an offsetting cash payment of the same value. And you might get to meet Judge Judy or the equivalent as a bonus.

Studio36

Jordan Liberty wrote:
Never mind the fact that it's completely ridiculous and unheard of for a test or "tfp" shoot outside of social networking websites.

Just FWIW a "test" and a TF* are two completely different things. A TF* -IS- a paid shoot, but one where the payment is not in money. Exactly because of that a cash value can be assigned to it.

You try and relate that to the "real world" and are trying to be dismissive of the "real world" position. Well, in the "real world" I don't do fuck-all without being paid. And in the "real world" I rely on contract(s) to ensure that I get paid, as does everyone else involved.

Studio36

PYPI FASHION wrote:
A contract or agreement is nothing more than a written form of what has already been agreed upon. If the parties don't agree on terms, a written contract is not going to change that. Personally, if I agree to the terms I have no problem putting my signature to it. I enter into contracts on a daily basis; sometimes dozens of times a day. I have no problem entering into a contract when I buy a cup of coffee with my Starbucks card. It's only $1.50 but I don't object to it on a financial level or as an artist statement.

I honestly don't understand the reluctance to formalize terms that have already been negotiated. It does not make you a lesser artist.

I don't understand the reluctance either, but there are many photographers who would never sign such a thing.  And just how do you politely say in email (before the contract is even written), "Great, so I should expect my images in about two weeks?  Just so you know, if I do not get images, I will charge you $XXX+ for the day I worked.  Oh, and I will be bringing a contract to the shoot for you to sign."  The artist usually will never hear from that photographer again.  However, this is the only way that such a TF contract has any value that can be litigated.  I have watched enough judge shows to know that if you don't establish your rates to your client, and place a value and end period on the contract, the judge may not rule in your favor, or enough in your favor as to make it worth the time to sue.  A judge may tell said photographer to hand over the images, but by that time, the images may be useless to the person suing.  Presumably, the portfolio building has already progressed during that time so as not to need these images.

Glam Luxx Makeup wrote:
I just think it's ridiculous that photographers and models are the only ones who think they are entitled to a written agreement of their work. Makeup Artists, Wardrobe Stylists, Hair Stylists, Photoshop Experts, etc.. are part of the process to a stunning picture, and should be treated as such.

I'm not sure what contract you're referring to between models and photographers.  There is a model's release, but that doesn't discuss terms of the shoot as you're looking for.  If you're looking for a "release", you won't get one, unless you're also in the shot and the photog wants to use it.

I think perhaps you need to figure out what it is you're really looking for, and then figure out if you actually need it.

But if you're just looking for a contract spelling out the terms, then your best bet is to just work with reliable photogs.  Ask for references, or if they are on MM, talk to the makeup artists they've used in the past.

Glam Luxx Makeup wrote:
I just think it's ridiculous that photographers and models are the only ones who think they are entitled to a written agreement of their work. Makeup Artists, Wardrobe Stylists, Hair Stylists, Photoshop Experts, etc.. are part of the process to a stunning picture, and should be treated as such.

You already have a "contract".... it is called an email chain.  It is very likely binding in a court of law.  A more formalized contract is likely also binding in a court of law and you could compel the photographer for specific performance if you sued him and brought him to court with either sets of contracts (email or other).

Unless you intend to file suit against photographers for not delivering images (a practice that is despicable by the way and any photographer that does it should be banned from the human race), I don't see how an type of written contract will help you.

EmElle Makeup and Hair wrote:

I don't understand the reluctance either, but there are many photographers who would never sign such a thing.  And just how do you politely say in email (before the contract is even written), "Great, so I should expect my images in about two weeks?  Just so you know, if I do not get images, I will charge you $XXX+ for the day I worked.  Oh, and I will be bringing a contract to the shoot for you to sign."  The artist usually will never hear from that photographer again.  However, this is the only way that such a TF contract has any value that can be litigated.  I have watched enough judge shows to know that if you don't establish your rates to your client, and place a value and end period on the contract, the judge may not rule in your favor, or enough in your favor as to make it worth the time to sue.  A judge may tell said photographer to hand over the images, but by that time, the images may be useless to the person suing.  Presumably, the portfolio building has already progressed during that time so as not to need these images.

Well that is certainly a valid problem that must be dealt with. I view it as a delicate negotiating step. Last week, I did a job for someone I had never worked with before. He followed up in email with the basic terms of our phone conversation but left out a few things. I sent an email asking for clarification of the missing items. It has to be worded very carefully as not to scare away the client. In the end, we spoke by phone and he followed up with a detailed contract that we were both happy with.

To be honest, I think it's a power play for some photographers. They want to make the rules but don't like being on the other end of it. I don't have problems signing paperwork if I agree to the terms because I don't view my test shoots as me doing anyone a favor.

PYPI FASHION wrote:
A contract or agreement is nothing more than a written form of what has already been agreed upon. If the parties don't agree on terms, a written contract is not going to change that. Personally, if I agree to the terms I have no problem putting my signature to it. I enter into contracts on a daily basis; sometimes dozens of times a day. I have no problem entering into a contract when I buy a cup of coffee with my Starbucks card. It's only $1.50 but I don't object to it on a financial level or as an artist statement.

I honestly don't understand the reluctance to formalize terms that have already been negotiated. It does not make you a lesser artist.

it's a question of need. I'm sure you would feel differently about your trips to starbucks if they all required you to sign a contract. sure it's for something that you already agreed to so why not sign?

Glam Luxx Makeup wrote:
I just think it's ridiculous that photographers and models are the only ones who think they are entitled to a written agreement of their work. Makeup Artists, Wardrobe Stylists, Hair Stylists, Photoshop Experts, etc.. are part of the process to a stunning picture, and should be treated as such.

As several have said..you can come up with a brand new way of doing things, and deal with the consequences of that, work wise.  Agreements with a makeup artist, other than deal memos for paid work, are very non-standard in the industry.  Fair or not.

You should just let it go, and work with people you trust.  It's way more fun, and way more likely to get you pics.  Jamming this contract down someone's throat is not going to win you anything, vibe-wise, leverage-wise, or other-wise.

You're seriously overthinking this, IMO.

B

Andrew Thomas Designs wrote:

That's about it, but that doesn't take a sheet of paper now does it?


So what value would that contract have?

So by this logic,
no one should sign anything.