Model
Mallorie Dunn
Posts: 4
New York, New York, US
Hey everyone,
I've basically given up on this guy - but figured as a last attempt I'd ask for some advice.
I've been on ModelMayhem for quite some time now and have worked with over 20 photographers for trade with no issues until now.
I did a shoot in August with a photographer who up until the very end - was very nice, helpful - etc. It was a beauty shoot, TF, with a MUA. Everything went fine, he provided me with proofs and asked me to pick some shots. After I did - he never produced the photos for me.
The shoot was 08/21/09
The proofs were given to me 08/24/09
I sent my picks on 08/26/09
on 08/29/09 photographer says he can retouch them the following day.
I waited until 09/11/09 to message him again and ask about the shots.
On 09/20/09 he replies saying he was in Europe and just got back, would work on them that day and send them to me asap.
I waited again until 09/24/09 and asked about them.
(all messages were sent in this tone
"Hi,
Did you get a chance to work on those shots?
Thanks! Hope all is well.
Mallorie")
He got back to me that same day and sent me an edited shot - however it was not any of the ones I had previously selected. We discussed the miscommunication on that part and had it straight by 09/25/09.
I then waited again until 10/05/09 and asked about the photos.
No response.
The last two messages have remained unread but as ModelMayhem shows you on someone's profile - he has been signed on to his account. As of today - it says he was last on Dec 27th, 2009.
On 10/28/09 I left a tag on his profile asking for the photos. No response.
I started a new message thread on 11/06/09 stating this
"Hello,
Please send me the 4 shots you owe me from our shoot. I understand you were away in Europe - and if you are continually busy I understand that as well. As am I. However, this was a trade shoot and my payment is in the form of the photos you have promised me. I have already suggested you just send me the raw or tiff files if you do not have the time to get them edited. It has been well over two months now and this is becoming a bit unacceptable. A response from you would be extremely appreciated.
Thank you
Mallorie"
No response.
My last attempt was on 11/09/09 - a second tag on his profile -
"Please send me the photos you owe me from our shoot in August. Or at least respond to my messages. Thank you."
I've also sent a text to his phone in the month of November.
He has never responded to a thing.
Is there anything I can do about this?
I've seen other MM'ers suggest that others not work with a specific photographer or model on their port - but was not sure if that was allowed and okay to do.
I'm open to suggestions! I have been nothing but professional in every form of communication sent between this photographer and myself. Yet he has chosen to ignore all of my attempts.
Much appreciated!
-Mallorie
Photographer
EB Photography
Posts: 8246
Santo António, Pagué, Sao Tome and Principe
I would just blow him off.. it doesn't sound like you will ever get them.
Photographer
EdBPhotography
Posts: 7741
Torrance, California, US
I would also remove his name from this post, since you're outing him in the forums...which is a BIG no-no.
Photographer
Alatus Photography
Posts: 45
Chicago, Illinois, US
The most you can say is that you do not recommend them, and they can PM you for details.
If he has chosen to ignore your messages for months, there is no way you are ever getting those pictures. It's a lost cause.
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 37171
Columbus, Ohio, US
By this time, I would just move on.
Also...in your initial post you may have ID'd him in your one copy and paste. Might want to think about editing that as outing is a no no here.
Photographer
pullins photography
Posts: 5884
Troy, Michigan, US
Mallorie Carrington wrote:
Hey everyone,
I've basically given up on this guy - but figured as a last attempt I'd ask for some advice.
I've been on ModelMayhem for quite some time now and have worked with over 20 photographers for trade with no issues until now.
I did a shoot in August with a photographer who up until the very end - was very nice, helpful - etc. It was a beauty shoot, TF, with a MUA. Everything went fine, he provided me with proofs and asked me to pick some shots. After I did - he never produced the photos for me.
The shoot was 08/21/09
The proofs were given to me 08/24/09
I sent my picks on 08/26/09
on 08/29/09 photographer says he can retouch them the following day.
I waited until 09/11/09 to message him again and ask about the shots.
On 09/20/09 he replies saying he was in Europe and just got back, would work on them that day and send them to me asap.
I waited again until 09/24/09 and asked about them.
(all messages were sent in this tone
"Hi Jens,
Did you get a chance to work on those shots?
Thanks! Hope all is well.
Mallorie")
He got back to me that same day and sent me an edited shot - however it was not any of the ones I had previously selected. We discussed the miscommunication on that part and had it straight by 09/25/09.
I then waited again until 10/05/09 and asked about the photos.
No response.
The last two messages have remained unread but as ModelMayhem shows you on someone's profile - he has been signed on to his account. As of today - it says he was last on Dec 27th, 2009.
On 10/28/09 I left a tag on his profile asking for the photos. No response.
I started a new message thread on 11/06/09 stating this
"Hello Jens,
Please send me the 4 shots you owe me from our shoot. I understand you were away in Europe - and if you are continually busy I understand that as well. As am I. However, this was a trade shoot and my payment is in the form of the photos you have promised me. I have already suggested you just send me the raw or tiff files if you do not have the time to get them edited. It has been well over two months now and this is becoming a bit unacceptable. A response from you would be extremely appreciated.
Thank you
Mallorie"
No response.
My last attempt was on 11/09/09 - a second tag on his profile -
"Please send me the photos you owe me from our shoot in August. Or at least respond to my messages. Thank you."
I've also sent a text to his phone in the month of November.
He has never responded to a thing.
Is there anything I can do about this?
I've seen other MM'ers suggest that others not work with a specific photographer or model on their port - but was not sure if that was allowed and okay to do.
I'm open to suggestions! I have been nothing but professional in every form of communication sent between this photographer and myself. Yet he has chosen to ignore all of my attempts.
Much appreciated!
-Mallorie my sympathies..that's about all any of us on here can do
Model
NY Model Essence
Posts: 3
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US
Sue him! Your payment was in the form of those pictures and if he cant give you a legit reason, then you should really look into other options to deal with the matter. Maybe if you tell him that you plan to sue him he might respond! Good luck.
Model
Little Alice
Posts: 3803
Chicago, Illinois, US
Welcome to the club sweetie, unfortunately one of two things happen: 1) By the time you get your photos they are either unedited so you can't use them, or edited with crappy PS filters and it's been so long since you took them they aren't usable. 2) You never get them and the "photographer" continues his douchebaggery. Just click the block button and don't look back.  NY Model Essence wrote:
Sue him! Your payment was in the form of those pictures and if he cant give you a legit reason, then you should really look into other options to deal with the matter. Maybe if you tell him that you plan to sue him he might respond! Good luck. I really hope you're joking. Why would she spend money to sue an idiot over photos that will probably end up being crap? Sounds like a silly idea to me. 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 37171
Columbus, Ohio, US
NY Model Essence wrote:
Sue him! Your payment was in the form of those pictures and if he cant give you a legit reason, then you should really look into other options to deal with the matter. Maybe if you tell him that you plan to sue him he might respond! Good luck. This is bad legal advice. How much is that attorney for the OP going to cost?
And fixing TF values to make a small claims case is problematic at best.
Even when you do successfully sue....you still have to collect.
Photographer
Vamp Boudoir
Posts: 11446
Florence, South Carolina, US
NY Model Essence wrote:
Sue him! Your payment was in the form of those pictures and if he cant give you a legit reason, then you should really look into other options to deal with the matter. Maybe if you tell him that you plan to sue him he might respond! Good luck. legit reason= they didn't come out well. ta-da!
And BTW, you just shot yourself in the foot with a few photographers who may read that.
Photographer
FJR Photography
Posts: 7049
Pekin, Indiana, US
Cherrystone wrote:
This is bad legal advice. How much is that attorney for the OP going to cost?
And fixing TF values to make a small claims case is problematic at best.
Even when you do successfully sue....you still have to collect. Small claims court works well, sue for the amount of your hourly rate since the photos at this time would probably not be usable for you.
I'd sue just for the princple of the matter. Assholes are assholes and sometimes you just gotta call em on it.
Model
Little Alice
Posts: 3803
Chicago, Illinois, US
NY Model Essence wrote:
Sue him! Your payment was in the form of those pictures and if he cant give you a legit reason, then you should really look into other options to deal with the matter. Maybe if you tell him that you plan to sue him he might respond! Good luck. Rebel Photo wrote:
legit reason= they didn't come out well. ta-da!
And BTW, you just shot yourself in the foot with a few photographers who may read that. I doubt the photographer had a legit reason, I've had photographers tell me the photos did not come out and apologize and offer another shoot. If he's just not talking and not sending photos, he's probably one of those photographers that just likes taking photos and then thinks that paid shoots are the only ones he should actually care about the end product.
But I do agree, the whole "sue them" advice was completely silly.
Model
Miss AY
Posts: 8166
Bulqizë, Bulqizë, Albania
You mentioned you texted him... try an actual phone call. It's amazing how quick some people will respond when they start getting actual phone calls. Use *67 to call restricted if you think he'll recognize your # and ignore the call.
Beyond that, it's just something that unfortunately happens. Just as photographers have models no-show, sometimes we have to deal with photographers who flake in giving photos.
Photographer
TerrysPhotocountry
Posts: 4649
Rochester, New York, US
There is no outing on MM! Never use the name of the person you are talking about
Photographer
The Alternative Image
Posts: 4129
London, England, United Kingdom
Sue, is it worth it and all the hassle that goes with it.
I had a model flake the night before a studio I booked, could not get another model, still had to pay for the studio, it pi$%ed me off, but I just moved on.
Maybe it will happen again, maybe it won't, it just one off those risky things with tf*, but 95% of the time everyone keeps their side off the bargain.
Mallorie, you have done everything correctly, you could pm him every couple of weeks just to annoy him, he will either give in or ignore you.
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 37171
Columbus, Ohio, US
FredsFotos wrote:
Small claims court works well, sue for the amount of your hourly rate since the photos at this time would probably not be usable for you.
I'd sue just for the princple of the matter. Assholes are assholes and sometimes you just gotta call em on it. Hope you enjoy that steak in principle on your dinner table next week.
Yes they can....but try that from a TF shoot. Unless value was set beforehand, it will likely be a waste of time & money.
AND as I said earlier, winning does NOT mean collecting.
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 37171
Columbus, Ohio, US
The Alternative Image wrote:
Sue, is it worth it and all the hassle that goes with it.
I had a model flake the night before a studio I booked, could not get another model, still had to pay for the studio, it pi$%ed me off, but I just moved on.
Maybe it will happen again, maybe it won't, it just one off those risky things with tf*, but 95% of the time everyone keeps their side off the bargain.
Mallorie, you have done everything correctly, you could pm him every couple of weeks just to annoy him, he will either give in or ignore you. Here we have a London photographer passing advice. How much experience with small claims courts in the US & NY do you have? 
Photographer
alessandro2009
Posts: 8095
Florence, Toscana, Italy
I have the strange impression that him:
a) don't remember the initial 4 shoot that you have selected some months ago
b) perhaps him haven't bring that shoot with him in Europe
c) perhaps has lost the shoot or delete
Unfortunately there are photographers who do not understand that the work shouldn't be made in mid.
This isn't a trade if the model don't receive anything, so, at minimum him must paid you for the disturb despite is only a remote possibility to be realized in practice.
Photographer
Chuckarelei
Posts: 11271
Seattle, Washington, US
NY Model Essence wrote:
Sue him! Your payment was in the form of those pictures and if he cant give you a legit reason, then you should really look into other options to deal with the matter. Maybe if you tell him that you plan to sue him he might respond! Good luck. It takes more trouble and effort to sue the photographer.
Photographer
Dark Rye Photography
Posts: 265
Portland, Oregon, US
The same thing happened to me last August with a photographer never giving me my images.
Photographer
Chuckarelei
Posts: 11271
Seattle, Washington, US
Mallorie Carrington wrote:
I've basically given up on this guy - but figured as a last attempt I'd ask for some advice.
...
I'm open to suggestions! I have been nothing but professional in every form of communication sent between this photographer and myself. Yet he has chosen to ignore all of my attempts. Is he a professional? I mean a real working professional? With business location, info listed in public? If so, PM me. There are ways to deal with that.
If he is not a working pro, then consider this a lesson learned. You made the decision to deal with an unknown, and just accept the consequence.
Model
Mallorie Dunn
Posts: 4
New York, New York, US
Ed Burns Photography wrote:
I would also remove his name from this post, since you're outing him in the forums...which is a BIG no-no. No offense - but how did I out him by having his first name here? I don't have his MM number, a link to his site, or his full alias used for his photography. I was attempting not to go against MM rules - which was the reason behind my post.
Photographer
Moon Pix Photography
Posts: 3907
Syracuse, New York, US
NY Model Essence wrote:
Sue him! Your payment was in the form of those pictures and if he cant give you a legit reason, then you should really look into other options to deal with the matter. Maybe if you tell him that you plan to sue him he might respond! Good luck. I think this is bad advice... I seriously would doubt that all the trouble would prove to be worth it in the end...
I have shot clients and afterward they did not pay. I have booked studios and models did not show... suing them is not the answer, even if you are in the right... it just is not worth the time. Move on, there are plenty of wonderful photographers in the world and on MM...
Model
Mallorie Dunn
Posts: 4
New York, New York, US
Rebel Photo wrote:
legit reason= they didn't come out well. ta-da!
And BTW, you just shot yourself in the foot with a few photographers who may read that. He sent me the proofs - they looked like they came out well to me.
And even if he supposedly did not think so - he should have at least responded to a message.
Photographer
H1 Photos
Posts: 180
Livonia, Michigan, US
You seem to really want to get those TF* photos, because some of them came out nicely. The photograper seems to have taken quite a bit too long. In your post, you are presumably asking "what we'd (all of us) do" to try to fix the situation, so I answer with what *I'd* do ... It may not be the option you choose, but maybe it'll give you some ideas:
If you have a physical address for the photographer, and if he has completely "vanished" or gone non-reponsive, try sending a letter (not "registered mail", unless you really feel inclined). People don't get a lot of physical postal mail from TF* shoots. This sudden appearance of a letter might make the photographer think "Wow! She's really concerned about getting her photos".
In the letter, you don't have to jump all over the photographer's case or anything. Maybe just tell the photographer that it has been a while, and that you really *like* the photos and that's why you are still trying to see if you can get your TF* pictures. Tell him/her that their shooting is good, and that's why you initially wanted to do TF* with them to begin with, but that if you don't get TF* pictures out of it, you are put in a bad situation. Maybe mention how a model's looks change over time (hair, etc) and so getting TF* can be kind of time-sensitive.
You know, try buttering him/her up a little (*not* being a kiss ass, just try to sound positive maybe like: "We worked as a good team back when we shot TF* together. I want you to know that I'm still on the team, but I really need your help on this.")
I know you shouldn't *have* to butter someone up and use the "soft approach". It sucks to feel like you have to coax people into giving you something that you already earned. I'm just trying to figure out a strategy that will get the photographer's attention, make them take you seriously, and simultaneously motivate them to feel *good* about the idea of get off their a** and helping you get your TF*. (Wow ... since August! Dang! That's a long time! They do need to get off their a**)
I try to save anger/confrontational tone until there are absolutely no options. My motto is: Anger is always a valid plan for 'tomorrow', but all my 'yesterdays' have shown that anger rarely works in the 'today'.
Photographer
NICHOLFOTO
Posts: 1294
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
NY Model Essence wrote:
Sue him! Your payment was in the form of those pictures and if he cant give you a legit reason, then you should really look into other options to deal with the matter. Maybe if you tell him that you plan to sue him he might respond! Good luck. Ludicrous advice - legal or otherwise.
Model
Jay Elle S
Posts: 813
Kansas City, Missouri, US
Mallorie Carrington wrote:
He sent me the proofs - they looked like they came out well to me.
And even if he supposedly did not think so - he should have at least responded to a message. That happens sometimes. It sucks, but it happens.
As for putting a "I don't recommend shooting with XYZ" in your profile, opinions are varied. You might try searching on that topic. There have been a few threads where both sides/opinions were discussed.
Right now, I would just let it go. If he wanted to read your messages and get back to you, he would have. If someone asks you for a reference, you can be truthful and say "He was _________ while shooting, but I have yet to receive images and communications have deteriorated post-shoot."
Photographer
CLT
Posts: 12979
Winchester, Virginia, US
Well, you're already 2010 years old. What's the big deal about waiting another 3~5 years?
In other news, I think you should just go ahead and work with someone else for updating your portfolio.
Photographer
Digiography
Posts: 3367
Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada
Don't know if there is much you can (practically) do. His images are excellent, I can see why you would want results from this shoot even more than you would from the average photographer.
It looks like he spends a great deal of time retouching his images, hopefully he is just bogged down right now with work or life and eventually you'll get some images from him.
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 37171
Columbus, Ohio, US
Mallorie Carrington wrote:
No offense - but how did I out him by having his first name here? I don't have his MM number, a link to his site, or his full alias used for his photography. I was attempting not to go against MM rules - which was the reason behind my post. Initially you used his name once. It took me all of a minute to find who he probably is.
Good luck.
Model
Babalon Salome
Posts: 3499
Hamburg, Hamburg, Germany
This happens. It has happened to me several times. I still haven't found a good way of dealing with it. After messaging them again and again for six months or so I usually give up... Funny thing is that this has happened to me with a very known professional editorial photographer who is planning to use at least one of the images in a big exhibition. I haven't received anything in seven months and I have lost so much weight that there is no way I could even use the pictures anymore. It was a tf* shoot.
Photographer
Chuckarelei
Posts: 11271
Seattle, Washington, US
Babalon Salome wrote:
this has happened to me with a very known professional editorial photographer who is planning to use at least one of the images in a big exhibition. If he is a real working professional, show up at his exhibition and ask him for your pictures.
IT WORKS!
Photographer
BDQMedia LLC
Posts: 547
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Mallorie Carrington wrote:
Hey everyone,
I've basically given up on this guy - but figured as a last attempt I'd ask for some advice.
I've been on ModelMayhem for quite some time now and have worked with over 20 photographers for trade with no issues until now.
I did a shoot in August with a photographer who up until the very end - was very nice, helpful - etc. It was a beauty shoot, TF, with a MUA. Everything went fine, he provided me with proofs and asked me to pick some shots. After I did - he never produced the photos for me.
The shoot was 08/21/09
The proofs were given to me 08/24/09
I sent my picks on 08/26/09
on 08/29/09 photographer says he can retouch them the following day.
I waited until 09/11/09 to message him again and ask about the shots.
On 09/20/09 he replies saying he was in Europe and just got back, would work on them that day and send them to me asap.
I waited again until 09/24/09 and asked about them.
(all messages were sent in this tone
"Hi,
Did you get a chance to work on those shots?
Thanks! Hope all is well.
Mallorie")
He got back to me that same day and sent me an edited shot - however it was not any of the ones I had previously selected. We discussed the miscommunication on that part and had it straight by 09/25/09.
I then waited again until 10/05/09 and asked about the photos.
No response.
The last two messages have remained unread but as ModelMayhem shows you on someone's profile - he has been signed on to his account. As of today - it says he was last on Dec 27th, 2009.
On 10/28/09 I left a tag on his profile asking for the photos. No response.
I started a new message thread on 11/06/09 stating this
"Hello,
Please send me the 4 shots you owe me from our shoot. I understand you were away in Europe - and if you are continually busy I understand that as well. As am I. However, this was a trade shoot and my payment is in the form of the photos you have promised me. I have already suggested you just send me the raw or tiff files if you do not have the time to get them edited. It has been well over two months now and this is becoming a bit unacceptable. A response from you would be extremely appreciated.
Thank you
Mallorie"
No response.
My last attempt was on 11/09/09 - a second tag on his profile -
"Please send me the photos you owe me from our shoot in August. Or at least respond to my messages. Thank you."
I've also sent a text to his phone in the month of November.
He has never responded to a thing.
Is there anything I can do about this?
I've seen other MM'ers suggest that others not work with a specific photographer or model on their port - but was not sure if that was allowed and okay to do.
I'm open to suggestions! I have been nothing but professional in every form of communication sent between this photographer and myself. Yet he has chosen to ignore all of my attempts.
Much appreciated!
-Mallorie You know, I remember thinking that a model was being abused by her chosen photographer for not getting photos back in a few days. Well, guess what? Time is something that you can not get back. The world is pressing.
There was a time when I could get 10 to 30 images edited with all of the others on a DVD with a customed pretty high quality DVD cover and a matching high quality image printed on each DVD because I'm shooting an average of 3,000 images in a shoot. Now I try, but its not happening, because life is not stopping waiting on me to finish my last shoot. It's sad to because my port doesn't reflect my current work because I'm too busy to update it in good fashion.
How about a one-on-one and let the photographer know that you are realistic and don't need smoke blown up your arse to make you feel good.
Look, pressure burst pipes....be professional and don't try to demand things find out realistic outcomes.
Photographer
tenrocK photo
Posts: 5486
New York, New York, US
shooterfoto wrote:
You know, I remember thinking that a model was being abused by her chosen photographer for not getting photos back in a few days. Well, guess what? Time is something that you can not get back. The world is pressing.
There was a time when I could get 10 to 30 images edited with all of the others on a DVD with a customed pretty high quality DVD cover and a matching high quality image printed on each DVD because I'm shooting an average of 3,000 images in a shoot. Now I try, but its not happening, because life is not stopping waiting on me to finish my last shoot. It's sad to because my port doesn't reflect my current work because I'm too busy to update it in good fashion.
How about a one-on-one and let the photographer know that you are realistic and don't need smoke blown up your arse to make you feel good.
Look, pressure burst pipes....be professional and don't try to demand things find out realistic outcomes. I think Mallorie has been patient enough, and tried to communicate. I have shot with her and had technical issues I had to resolve before I could finish the images. She was nothing short of pleasant and professional with her interaction with me.
Mallorie, see if you can catch the flea with even more honey. Just don't have high hopes at this point and be prepared to just move on. Too bad as this photographer has good work.
Model
MYS Britt
Posts: 10720
San Diego, California, US
Nothing you can do, generally... Although I'm local so going around to see that last one who did that, to insist he either delete them or give me copies on the spot!
He's had the nerve to give them to someone else in the shoot but not me.
Been patient and polite. But he acts like a prize a.hole
Nothing to lose now!
Photographer
James Sioux
Posts: 1366
Los Angeles, California, US
Was there any sign or red flag about this guy before you worked with him? It's photogs like him that makes the rest of us look bad.
He probably accidentally deleted the photos, blew you off, or so many other reasons. Forget about it. Nothing you can do. BUT, tell him he had better not publish any of the photos without your permission, especially for profit or for any commerical gains.
Photographer
DW DALLAM PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 1385
Arcata, California, US
Rebel Photo wrote:
legit reason= they didn't come out well. ta-da!
And BTW, you just shot yourself in the foot with a few photographers who may read that. Well she didn't lose my respect or trust. I can't stand people who are so selfish they don't take others work seriously enough to compensate them.
Model
MissSybarite
Posts: 11863
Los Angeles, California, US
At least your port isn't suffering for lack of good images
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