Good Egg Productions wrote:
You're new here.

1. Almost no one gives out all the images.
2. Why would you want anything but the best few images from any one shoot?
3. You don't want to use more than one or two from any one shoot anyway.

This is pretty much a standard procedure. Accept it.

What he said . . .

heavyh20 wrote:

What he said . . .

x3

If you don't think TF benefits you don't do it but then you have to consider the alternative . . .

Good Egg Productions wrote:
You're new here.

1. Almost no one gives out all the images.
2. Why would you want anything but the best few images from any one shoot?
3. You don't want to use more than one or two from any one shoot anyway.

This is pretty much a standard procedure. Accept it.

Yes.

I don't give ANY client unedited images or ALL images unless they specifically contract for it, and in that case they pay a significant premium for it.  And all of my pricing is based on the number of images to be used from a shoot and the manner in which they'll be used - no reason for a trade shoot to be any different.  This is all very standard.

Randal Scott wrote:
Hey all,

I may have missed this topic already; if so please don't hesitate to point me to the relevant threads.

I'm noticing lately that more and more photographers only offer a limited number of edited/retouched images in a TF arrangement. (Sometimes a dozen or so, but usually less. In one case only three images.) Almost NONE give out *any* raw or unedited images, and very, very few will provide a complete set of all the images from the shoot. (For the record, this also happens on paid shoots) And yet, are quick and to have models sign releases that give them all rights to the pics.

Certainly there are *some* who will provide all images...but they seem to be few and far in between.

If images are not provided to the model, but the photographer has all rights to the photos...how is that a TF arrangement? How does this benefit the model?

If you don't like what's on offer, or don't think it benefits you, then don't shoot with that photograper. Simples

Giving a model ALL the images is just ridiculous - nobody needs 600 or 1000 images from a shoot. If you choose to shoot with a photographer then maybe you should have enough respect for his work to respect his choices also?

Personally I offer a minimum of 3 finished images from a TF shoot and the team members have the option to get extras from my selects retouched by a 3rd party retoucher if they want more.



Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Good Egg Productions wrote:
You're new here.

1. Almost no one gives out all the images.
2. Why would you want anything but the best few images from any one shoot?
3. You don't want to use more than one or two from any one shoot anyway.

This is pretty much a standard procedure. Accept it.

Yep, pretty much what he said. Before you arrange a tf shoot, be sure to get an idea of the number of images you can expect. Photographers who will give you all images are pretty rare.

ForeverFotos wrote:
Photographers who will give you all images are pretty rare.

And usually pretty crap too

Quality > quantity every time!



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Christine Rose wrote:

x3

If you don't think TF benefits you don't do it but then you have to consider the alternative . . .

what they all said...

Abbitt Photography wrote:
All the images captured by my sensor are the pieces from which my final product will come, but they themselves are not product.  Most of  these  I discard myself.  Why should I give away unfishinished product, that I don't even value myself? 

To me, asking for all unfinished images would like asking Kentucky Fried Chicken to provide you with all the chicken pieces they did not use in your meal.

I *love* this analogy.

Good Egg Productions wrote:
You're new here.

1. Almost no one gives out all the images.
2. Why would you want anything but the best few images from any one shoot?
3. You don't want to use more than one or two from any one shoot anyway.

This is pretty much a standard procedure. Accept it.

Yup.

And, of course, always discuss the terms of the trade agreement with each photographer before the shoot.

Abbitt Photography wrote:
All the images captured by my sensor are the pieces from which my final product will come, but they themselves are not product.  Most of  these  I discard myself.  Why should I give away unfishinished product, that I don't even value myself? 

To me, asking for all unfinished images would like asking Kentucky Fried Chicken to provide you with all the chicken pieces they did not use in your meal.

And scene.

Randal Scott wrote:
Since when does TFP/CD not include all images?

Since like always.

Randal Scott wrote:
Hey all,

I may have missed this topic already; if so please don't hesitate to point me to the relevant threads.

I'm noticing lately that more and more photographers only offer a limited number of edited/retouched images in a TF arrangement. (Sometimes a dozen or so, but usually less. In one case only three images.) Almost NONE give out *any* raw or unedited images, and very, very few will provide a complete set of all the images from the shoot. (For the record, this also happens on paid shoots) And yet, are quick and to have models sign releases that give them all rights to the pics.

Certainly there are *some* who will provide all images...but they seem to be few and far in between.

If images are not provided to the model, but the photographer has all rights to the photos...how is that a TF arrangement? How does this benefit the model?

Just because a situation is a trade does not mean that the photographer should be expected to give out unfinished works, which is what expecting copies of all photos would be.

As said above, for a photographer, once the shoot is over, there is still a lot of work to be done to produce final images, which is why that is normally done on only on a limited number of selected images.

That isn't to say that you won't find other photographers who will offer or negotiate something difference, each person runs their business, or their hobby differently, and you're free to pick and choose who you work with and who you don't.

Now, how does the arrangement benefit the model?  If they get high quality images without paying?  That answer seems rather obvious.

If you want, or feel you need something different than a few of the best images, you certainly can hire a photographer, or negotiate and try to find someone who will give you what you desire.

Bottom line, don't expect more than a few finished/final shots.. if you want more and get more then great for you, but that really isn't what you will normally get from the majority of professionals.  (Not saying that there aren't some pros who do differently, but it will be less common.)

Good Egg Productions wrote:
You're new here.

1. Almost no one gives out all the images.
2. Why would you want anything but the best few images from any one shoot?
3. You don't want to use more than one or two from any one shoot anyway.

This is pretty much a standard procedure. Accept it.

+1

Why get back the images where they aren't your best? Editing images sometimes takes many hours. If they spend 3 good hours editing one photo, thats 900 hours of editing time...non stop...thats 37 and a half straight days...no pee breaks lol

Now, they could spend 5 minutes on each photo, and give you all of them, but then you're going to complain that there are imperfections in the images that you want to post...that's why..ho hum

Jay Kilgore wrote:
My first response is; "Wow"

Then, I have a question, more rhetorical than anything; You expect to be paid cash AND receive not only a few selections, but ALL the RAW/Unedited images in addition to edited ones? So in theory, you want to be paid THREE times for one shoot?

Wow.

You don't need but one maybe two images from each look. On a TFCD shoot, the work starts after you leave. To ask a photographer for more than a few looks is selfish imho.

Cheers,
Jay
http://www.jaykilgore.com

Pretty sure he was implying that the photog was being paid, not the model. And I typically ask for all of the unedited images simply to learn from them. Am I going to try and outsource them so I have even more images from that shoot? Of course not, it's entirely unnecessary. I would never ask for more edited images than originally agreed upon, but why not learn from the rest?

Gogo Ginger Spice wrote:

Pretty sure he was implying that the photog was being paid, not the model. And I typically ask for all of the unedited images simply to learn from them. Am I going to try and outsource them so I have even more images from that shoot? Of course not, it's entirely unnecessary. I would never ask for more edited images than originally agreed upon, but why not learn from the rest?

Simple; I am know for producing a certain quality level. Anything that is out there that doesn't represent me well, is a possible lost job for me. It happens ALL the time, put the images up for review, go to facebook and see dozens of "print screen" photoshop cropped images. Client went to photographer for the specific look of photographer, why not respect that photogs choice?

If you need to learn, get a full body mirror and pose in front of it every night for about an hour or two. Learn how your body looks and moves by doing this. Don't use a session to test the waters.

I thought he meant he got paid as the model. My apologies if I was initially wrong.

Cheers,
Jay
http://www.jaykilgore.com

Randal Scott wrote:
If images are not provided to the model, but the photographer has all rights to the photos...how is that a TF arrangement? How does this benefit the model?

It benefits the model in that the model gets usable images for his or her portfolio. What would a model need with hundreds of images from one shoot?

The photographer may own rights to all photos, but the photographer doesn't use all those images, either. Only the best of the bunch.

Artistry in Light Photo wrote:
Without the release, a photog "technically" cannot alter your image he owns the rights to.

Any photographers who have a different or better understanding of this, please feel free to chime in here, but this is my understanding of it regarding trade shoots and why a release should be signed.

A release doesn't have anything to do with retouching. It's a release of the rights the model has regarding using her likeness in ways the photographer could not do without a release, such as for commercial and advertising purposes. It's got nothing to do with retouching, processing, or editing.

Abbitt Photography wrote:
To me, asking for all unfinished images would like asking Kentucky Fried Chicken to provide you with all the chicken pieces they did not use in your meal.

LOL, that's the best simple answer I've come across.