Photographer
KSBPHOTOSdotCOM
Posts: 112
Borroloola, Northern Territory, Australia
Hi all. been mainly in the TF realm but considering paid models for shoots. With my TF's there has always been an image exchange. My assumption is that if i pay a model i do not have to worry about providing images to the model . Is that consistent with everyone else out here. thanks
Photographer
Dark Shadows
Posts: 2269
Miami, Florida, US
You do not have to give out images if you're paying someone to test with you. Some still do it, but that's just them trying to be nice. You don't have to and it shouldn't be expected.
Personally all the shoots I've done that are paid are for clients, and therefore I am not at liberty to give out images.
Photographer
Heels and Hemlines
Posts: 2961
Southern Pines, North Carolina, US
KSBPHOTOSdotCOM wrote:
My assumption is that if i pay a model i do not have to worry about providing images to the model. You are correct. If a model happens to see one or two images on my site that she likes and asks for them, I'll gladly give them to her. But as a rule I do not return images from paid shoots. The payment is the compensation.
Photographer
REMOVED
Posts: 1546
Atlanta, Georgia, US
On paid commercial assignments, TFCD shoots, fine-art exhibition projects, and paid workshop models, my models always give more than expected, I respond in kind.
We're not talking 20x24" platinum prints here, merely a few low res images on a CD.
A few select images provided when not required, goes a longway in building trust, and good will among the models I shoot, and their model friends.
If we do only that which is absolutely required of us, then we build a reputation no one would envy.
Photographer
KSBPHOTOSdotCOM
Posts: 112
Borroloola, Northern Territory, Australia
so this means less pressure to produce what a modle wants
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 23575
Salem, Oregon, US
when i pay the model i usually just give them the ones i retouch for myself whereas on trade shoots i let the model choose her favorites.
some people prefer to pay models even if they can get them on trade because it takes away the "burden" of getting the retouching done promptly. plus when you pay hopefully the model will do whatever you want (within their limits of course).
Photographer
Heels and Hemlines
Posts: 2961
Southern Pines, North Carolina, US
KSBPHOTOSdotCOM wrote:
so this means less pressure to produce what a modle wants It means ZERO pressure to produce what the model wants. If you are paying, the shoot is 100% yours. You are under no obligation whatsoever to provide usable images to the model. Heck, that's the whole benefit to paying rather than shooting TF.
Photographer
Mark Salo
Posts: 11725
Olney, Maryland, US
Of course the model may negotiate a lower rate if you promise her some images.
Photographer
KSBPHOTOSdotCOM
Posts: 112
Borroloola, Northern Territory, Australia
Mark Salo wrote:
Of course the model may negotiate a lower rate if you promise her some images. a very good point
had not thought of it
Photographer
KMP
Posts: 4834
Houston, Texas, US
Clients pay me all the time to take photos for them.
They've never had an issue with me using them for self-promotion, if I wanted.
For any professional photographers, do you offer discounts to your clients if you use the image for your portfolio?
I didn't think so.
Treating a model any differently is a bit diva-esque.
I don't see how this is any different.
Photographer
KSBPHOTOSdotCOM
Posts: 112
Borroloola, Northern Territory, Australia
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 26342
Portland, Oregon, US
KSBPHOTOSdotCOM wrote:
Hi all.
been mainly in the TF realm but considering paid models for shoots. With my TF's there has always been an image exchange. My assumption is that if i pay a model i do not have to worry about providing images to the model. Is that consistent with everyone else out here. thanks Typically, when you are paying the model, you only have to pay the model the amount that you two agreed upon. You typically don't have to provide images at all.
However, in some cases, photographers have agreed to provide the model images, sometimes gratis, sometimes for a reduced modeling rate.
I post images on my web site -- I have no problem with models right-clicking on any of my posted images
Photographer
Jay Farrell
Posts: 13408
Nashville, Tennessee, US
You are under no obligation to whatsoever. However, if a popular model it may be smart to if you gain publicity, if they did a good job for you.
Model
LizzyB
Posts: 2225
Rochester, New York, US
you don't have to, but it may be a nice gesture to give them one or two (especially if you already edited them for your own purposes, so it's no extra work for you.)
plus yes, it can be good publicity because now more people will see those images.
or if it really does rub you the wrong way, you could lower your rate slightly and use images to supplement the payment.
Photographer
KSBPHOTOSdotCOM
Posts: 112
Borroloola, Northern Territory, Australia
i am not opposed to sharing with the models. its just i wanted to try something different and may not like any of the images personally. i guess i don't want to feel burden to supply the model with an image for the image sake, not because i am proud of it
Model
LizzyB
Posts: 2225
Rochester, New York, US
KSBPHOTOSdotCOM wrote:
i am not opposed to sharing with the models. its just i wanted to try something different and may not like any of the images personally. i guess i don't want to feel burden to supply the model with an image for the image sake, not because i am proud of it makes sense. well maybe IF you want to do it, just share a photo or two if you have any that you really like
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 13053
Atlanta, Georgia, US
GoldRoseMedia wrote:
It means ZERO pressure to produce what the model wants. If you are paying, the shoot is 100% yours. You are under no obligation whatsoever to provide usable images to the model. Heck, that's the whole benefit to paying rather than shooting TF. Exactly, you can choose to share your images if you like but it's not always the case.
Photographer
Gemini Dragon
Posts: 198
Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada
If I'm paying a model, I'm shooting images for my port. Her compensation is the pay.
I don't mind however sending along web size copies of my edits especially if she's going to provide me with exposure by having one of my images in her port. If she's a real sweetheart and I may want to shoot with her again I may even let her pick a couple for editing.
If she wants Hi Res images, the negotiations begin anew!
Photographer
KSBPHOTOSdotCOM
Posts: 112
Borroloola, Northern Territory, Australia
Photographer
Shutterbug5269
Posts: 16084
Herkimer, New York, US
I have been known to do it on occasion if the images turned out really well.
Most of the paid models I have worked with appreciate it.
But it is by no means required.
Photographer
Select Model Studios
Posts: 818
Tempe, Arizona, US
You don't have to give them images. But why not do it anyways? It's more exposure for you really.
Photographer
Arizona Shoots
Posts: 28657
Phoenix, Arizona, US
In MM Land where many of you pay models simply to have pretty photos for your MM port and Facebook page, I guess it's alright.
For those of us who are making a full time living directly from the sales our images, it's not a good idea.
Also, it's no wonder it's getting harder and harder to find good models for TFP. They figured out they can get paid to build their portfolio.
Model
Gabrielle Heather
Posts: 10064
Middle Island, New York, US
John Jebbia wrote:
In MM Land where many of you pay models simply to have pretty photos for your MM port and Facebook page, I guess it's alright.
For those of us who are making a full time living directly from the sales our images, it's not a good idea.
Also, it's no wonder it's getting harder and harder to find good models for TFP. They figured out they can get paid to build their portfolio. what a horrible thing to say John! The answer is, it all depends on the photographer, and/or who the client is.
Photographer
Odin Photo
Posts: 1462
Salt Lake City, Utah, US
GoldRoseMedia wrote:
It means ZERO pressure to produce what the model wants. Haha! This is the EXACT sentence that ran through my head when I read the OP's statement as well 
Photographer
Magic Image Photography
Posts: 3606
Temple City, California, US
Most models that do paid shoots don't even bother to ask for images from photographers that pay them but some ask for low resolution images to post on their port to advertise what style of work they are shooting for pay. I say this is when Collaboration comes to mind. If they quote you a price for pay and they want images ask them if they will do an extra hour or charge you less for the shoot. It never hurts to ask. Remember you are paying them for modeing not for images.
Photographer
Gabes Photography
Posts: 244
Copperas Cove, Texas, US
John Jebbia wrote:
In MM Land where many of you pay models simply to have pretty photos for your MM port and Facebook page, I guess it's alright.
For those of us who are making a full time living directly from the sales our images, it's not a good idea.
Also, it's no wonder it's getting harder and harder to find good models for TFP. They figured out they can get paid to build their portfolio. I agree with John....there are still some models who uderstand that being paid cash is their compensation for a modeling gig, and are happy if they recieve a pic or two for their ports afterward.
However, in my recent experience there has been a rash of models who not only expect to be paid for their time but expect to recieve images in addition to pay for their modeling. Some even demand it; I have seen where models make a demands on their portfolio stating that they will have a copy of all raw images on a CD before they leave the shoot location.
I once had a model call me unprofessional for refusing to provide her with CD containing raw unedited images of every photograph taken at the shoot, and this was in addition to her day rate. When I asked her why she would need full sized copies of every shot taken at the shoot. She replied and I quote "So I can have them edited by my friend (PhotoShop Wizzard) for my portfolio!, and if they come out good enough to sell them!! They are pictures of ME! they are MY Pictures" She didn't understand that she didn't have ownership of the copyright. As she stormed out of the coffee shop yelling at me, and again I'm quoting her "Every PROFESSIONAL photographer I have shot with didn't have a problem with it, I don't know why you can't be a professional!" I'm just glad that all this happened at our initail meeting and not on the day of the shoot..
give pictures don't give pictures. When you pay a model it's up to you what you do with those images.
Photographer
Arizona Shoots
Posts: 28657
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Gabrielle Heather wrote:
what a horrible thing to say John! The answer is, it all depends on the photographer, and/or who the client is. It's the truth.
When a model quotes you rates, she's saying your photos aren't worth trading her time for. So why would she want them anyways (assuming this is your standard MM portfolio updating type shoot and not for a client.)
If photographers are finding they have a lack of good models to TF with, this is one of the reasons. Why trade when they can get paid and pictures?
I truly believe that photographers who pay models for the privilege of updating their portfolio for them are suckers.
Photographer
KSBPHOTOSdotCOM
Posts: 112
Borroloola, Northern Territory, Australia
John Jebbia wrote:
It's the truth.
When a model quotes you rates, she's saying your photos aren't worth trading her time for. So why would she want them anyways (assuming this is your standard MM portfolio updating type shoot and not for a client.)
If photographers are finding they have a lack of good models to TF with, this is one of the reasons. Why trade when they can get paid and pictures?
I truly believe that photographers who pay models for the privilege of updating their portfolio for them are suckers. well put
Model
IDiivil
Posts: 4615
Los Angeles, California, US
KSBPHOTOSdotCOM wrote:
Hi all.
been mainly in the TF realm but considering paid models for shoots. With my TF's there has always been an image exchange. My assumption is that if i pay a model i do not have to worry about providing images to the model. Is that consistent with everyone else out here. thanks Basically.
I never expect images from a paid shoot. It's always cool to get them, though, and I'll usually share them through some medium (FB, Tumblr, website, blog, etc) and promote the photographer.
As an aside, it may be good to make it clear if you don't plan to ever provide images. That way, no one will get upset down the road.
Photographer
C Mirene
Posts: 1610
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
IDiivil wrote:
Basically.
I never expect images from a paid shoot. It's always cool to get them, though, and I'll usually share them through some medium (FB, Tumblr, website, blog, etc) and promote the photographer.
As an aside, it may be good to make it clear if you don't plan to ever provide images. That way, no one will get upset down the road. Along with I's point above, maybe there should be some agreement made that if the model is provided images from a paid or trade shoot, they aren't obligated to share them to promote the photographer. Maybe the images aren't to the model's liking. Maybe they are sucky. That way, there isn't yet more dissatisfaction by a given party down the road. Just another thought...
Ah well, no matter what is done - there's always the chance for somebody not to be satisfied. It's a tricky world out there MM people. Be safe and sane. 
Model
Nicole Nu
Posts: 3981
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
IDiivil wrote:
Basically.
I never expect images from a paid shoot. It's always cool to get them, though, and I'll usually share them through some medium (FB, Tumblr, website, blog, etc) and promote the photographer.
As an aside, it may be good to make it clear if you don't plan to ever provide images. That way, no one will get upset down the road. +1
It's a nice surprise when I get images from a paid shoot and I've posted some of them in my port.
Photographer
John Felici
Posts: 609
Pascoag, Rhode Island, US
uggg cmon...I always give the model a few shots from our shoot. Yes I pay the model ...but lets be real, is it really going to harm you to do that? way too much emphasis on photos being worth a million bucks each.... probably coming from those who dont make anything to begin with.. Its just a couple photos..plus it keeps the models happy
Model
IDiivil
Posts: 4615
Los Angeles, California, US
C Mirene wrote:
Along with I's point above, maybe there should be some agreement made that if the model is provided images from a paid or trade shoot, they aren't obligated to share them to promote the photographer. Maybe the images aren't to the model's liking. Maybe they are sucky. That way, there isn't yet more dissatisfaction by a given party down the road. Just another thought...
Ah well, no matter what is done - there's always the chance for somebody not to be satisfied. It's a tricky world out there MM people. Be safe and sane. Not sure if an agreement is necessary for that. Most photographers who have hired me don't expect their images to be used to begin with -- much less being given any sort of mention anywhere. I think, after over 2 years of modeling, I only ever had one photographer expect me to use the images for my MM portfolio and took it personally when I chose not to. I feel making a blanket agreement saying you aren't obligated to share/use the photos as a model would do more to upset the photographer than choosing to not use the photos later on down the road.
Model
Abby Hawkins
Posts: 2004
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Sometimes they'll want to send me the finished product just as a, "Hey this is what it is!" or they'll send me the link to the website who funded the whole thing. Certainly not expected.
Photographer
C Mirene
Posts: 1610
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
IDiivil wrote:
Not sure if an agreement is necessary for that. Most photographers who have hired me don't expect their images to be used to begin with -- much less being given any sort of mention anywhere. I think, after over 2 years of modeling, I only ever had one photographer expect me to use the images for my MM portfolio and took it personally when I chose not to. I feel making a blanket agreement saying you aren't obligated to share/use the photos as a model would do more to upset the photographer than choosing to not use the photos later on down the road. Yep - agreed. I was just offering another view.
I would never ask a model to do anything with images I provide. I do my thing - they can do whatever they deem to be best for them. It's all good. But I have seen experiences shared by models where a photographer would seemingly beg/ask/pressure them to use their images - or some goofy shit like that.
Photographer
Larry Quick
Posts: 117
Lake Worth, Florida, US
I will usually give a paid model some of the shots, it promotes good will and next time she might return the favor. Besides what's it gonna hurt anyway.
Photographer
Wysiwyg Photography
Posts: 6326
Salt Lake City, Utah, US
Jay Farrell wrote:
You are under no obligation to whatsoever. However, if a popular model it may be smart to if you gain publicity, if they did a good job for you. That is IF you have work good enough to display... 
Photographer
Justin
Posts: 22389
Fort Collins, Colorado, US
It would take a really crappy shoot for me to not send the model some images. Can't say that that's never happened before. But my feeling is, if the model uses them, I look good, too.
Photographer
Wysiwyg Photography
Posts: 6326
Salt Lake City, Utah, US
John Jebbia wrote:
In MM Land where many of you pay models simply to have pretty photos for your MM port and Facebook page, I guess it's alright.
For those of us who are making a full time living directly from the sales our images, it's not a good idea.
Also, it's no wonder it's getting harder and harder to find good models for TFP. They figured out they can get paid to build their portfolio. Gabrielle Heather wrote:
what a horrible thing to say John! The answer is, it all depends on the photographer, and/or who the client is. Do you know how many models have contacted me trying to use nudity as a form of currency? eg... I'll show you my bits if you take pictures of me...
It drives me nuts... especially when I put up casting calls for nude models and they have never done nudes before expecting that "I'm a man" I should jump at the chance to see them naked and "pay" for that privilege... 
All I'm saying is that it seems many models think that if the model is naked, then we automatically should be shelling out the dough when if they haven't done nudes before, they should be paying me.
Photographer
Images By Joseph
Posts: 901
Naperville, Illinois, US
Generally No but it depends on what you agree on BEFORE the shoot. Some photographers like the additional exposure of their work by giving a few to the model .
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