Louise_Anne_Jones wrote:
I been reading this thread all day and I not sure where it's going at all now
Are we trying to "out people on here who might not want to be identifyed for one reson or another"

Should we also be asking who's gay or lesbian on here while we are on with it ?

do we have that right?

There are many transgendered models on MM and they identify themselves as so on their page.  Pointing you in their direction is not outing them, it's giving directions.  Transgendered models are generally not in the closet, they often make their living by being out of the closet.

Louise_Anne_Jones wrote:
I been reading this thread all day and I not sure where it's going at all now
Are we trying to "out people on here who might not want to be identifyed for one reson or another"

Should we also be asking who's gay or lesbian on here while we are on with it ?

do we have that right?

The OP doesn't talk about any of that. There was no mention of outing, just a celebration/admiration of transgendered/non-gender-conforming models, then an inquiry on our favorites and our thoughts.

Sexual orientation was never discussed and is pretty irrelevant.

William Kious wrote:

The transgender/transvestite communities have found a voice in places like this. They can take those tentative steps into the "real" world. They might not be 100% accepted here, but they will find more like-minded, open-minded, curious and non-judgmental people here than anywhere else.

A bit of validation and/or a modicum of acceptance can be a powerful thing.

And it has not been my attempt to stifle anybody, regardless of sexual orientation, what surgeries they have had, or how they choose to dress.  I was just curious as to why there have been 3 posts regarding this topic in the last week.  It seems that others, not you, have a bit of white knight syndrome though, I guess they feel the need to make sure they are heard about how tolerant they are.  I'm quite tolerant of transgendered people as well as transvestites.  I've been around quite a few people who could be classified as one of these.  It does not bother me one bit, I just don't the need to defend people in these "groups" so to speak because I feel that they, the transgendered/transvestites are more than capable of speaking for themselves.  But apparently, because of that, I'm a hate monger, I'm a homophobe, and have ulterior motives by asking about the number of threads about this topic lately.

William Kious wrote:
The transgender/transvestite communities have found a voice in places like this. They can take those tentative steps into the "real" world. They might not be 100% accepted here, but they will find more like-minded, open-minded, curious and non-judgmental people here than anywhere else.

A bit of validation and/or a modicum of acceptance can be a powerful thing.

Agreed but this should be discussed on sites like Fetlife and Alt.com . MM I think should be for llamas and photographers

JansuModel wrote:


I always thought she was gorgeous

Tilda Swinton is...

What's a better word for "immaculate?"

J  Welborn wrote:

Agreed but this should be discussed on sites like Fetlife and Alt.com . MM I think should be for models and photographers

It looks like some small minded people have gotten me wrong here. While I agree, there are places like the sites that you mentioned which are more suited for these types of discussions in mass, and I agree with you that MM is a professional networking site and we should stick to the topics, but I do see a thread here and there about transgendered people and transvestites, because some of the members here are transgendered or transvestites, and it obviously is important to them, along with people looking to work with them specifically.

J  Welborn wrote:

Agreed but this should be discussed on sites like Fetlife and Alt.com . MM I think should be for models and photographers

Are transgendered and non-gender-conforming people not models and photographers? Cool, I guess we should let Andrej Pejic, Jenny Shimizu, Lea T., and Paul Boche know that they are not models and should be discussed on FetLife as opposed to modeling sites like this one.

Shon D.- Femme wrote:
No one cares about you anymore Isaiah. We've moved on. You should, too. Now talk about TG/NGC models like the OP asked or STFU.

Watch the video I posted. Check out the blog link I posted. Google the names we've posted and discussed. Stay relevant to the OP. Do SOMETHING.

You've moved on?  Funny, you're still posting about me.  Sorry, I"m not looking to see your take on the subject, I've spoken with and known quite a few people who are transgendered and transvestites, and they have given me their insights on the matter.  If the op would like to talk to me about the subject and they are one of these folks, and why they started their particular thread, I'm all ears, but I really don't care about your warped sense of reality.  I think you need to seek professional mental help to work through your white knight syndrome.  You seem to be suffering from it quite bad.  And what's funny is that I haven't read a reply from the op stating that I've offended them in any way, nor have I heard that I've done such from people of this group.  Time for you to well um, take your own advice do something.  Oh wait, don't do anything, we've already had one mass murder this week, and we don't need you shooting people, nor anybody else for that matter.

Isaiah Brink wrote:

You've moved on?  Funny, you're still posting about me.  Sorry, I"m not looking to see your take on the subject, I've spoken with and known quite a few people who are transgendered and transvestites, and they have given me their insights on the matter.  If the op would like to talk to me about the subject and they are one of these folks, and why they started their particular thread, I'm all ears, but I really don't care about your warped sense of reality.  I think you need to seek professional mental help to work through your white knight syndrome.  You seem to be suffering from it quite bad.  And what's funny is that I haven't read a reply from the op stating that I've offended them in any way, nor have I heard that I've done such from people of this group.  Time for you to well um, take your own advice do something.  Oh wait, don't do anything, we've already had one mass murder this week, and we don't need you shooting people, nor anybody else for that matter.

Anyway,

here's Lea T. on the cover of Elle Brazil (her native country)

Isaiah Brink wrote:
Hey Andi, I'll say this, thank you for directly answering my question, I wish so many others could have without the bull that has gone on.  You're really the best person to have answered my question since you started the thread.  Thanks!

Thank you. I think this has been a great discussion.

Isaiah Brink wrote:

I'm not saying that they are not part of the community nor is the topic worth talking about.  But it's kind of like making a big deal about the bullet holes in the wall of the theater in Aurora, Colorado.  Yes, it's important, it's there, it needs to be repaired.  But, considering the whole picture, there's bigger things to talk about really.  And a question, yes, how does being a transsexual or a transvestite have to do with getting the shot or them being a competent model?  If they are a good model, then they are a good model, what gender they are doesn't really matter does it?  No, it doesn't.  Does their sexual orientation matter (with regards to modeling)?  Not a bit.  If they can get the job done, they can get the job done.  Unless you're looking for a date as well, but that's not what this professional networking site is about, at least it's not my impression.  I don't ask what their sexual orientataion is, nor do I ask what gender they were born as.  To me, it only matters what they are now.  What they look like now.  Sorry, but if I look at a port where it looks like a female, and there's no mention of being a transvestite, or a cross dresser, and a man shows up to the shoot as the model, then the shoots over.  It's like lying on your work application.  It was a large misrepresentation.

Personally I think it's a bit naive (not an attack on you Isaiah) to think all people are equal. There is still a lot of prejudices out there and what I think we are seeing is a minority community just realizing that there are others out there who want to discuss topics that are relevant to them.

Anyhow, anything not about escorts, flakes, and what the photographer did next is bound to stick out from the crowd.

Shon D.- Femme wrote:
OP, you should follow this blog!:

http://katalepsja.tumblr.com/

It's one of my favorite Tumblr blogs.

Thanks for sharing

JansuModel wrote:


I always thought she was gorgeous

"Was"!!! Don't you mean "is"?   ;-)

Isaiah Brink wrote:
I gotta ask one of you this.  But what's up with so many threads lately regarding transgendered people and cross dressers?  I mean, obviously you can't speak for the other people who started the other threads, but I'm curious as to the reason why so many threads on such odd topic has been brought up lately.  I don't mean to offend anybody who fits into any of these descriptions, but let's look at the reality of the situation, the majority of the people in the United States are not transgendered or transvestites.  So, I say odd as in meaning that it is different from the majority, not odd as in bad, freak, or the like.

I'll gladly take another Tgirl/crossdresser thread than another llama herder thread.

J  Welborn wrote:

Agreed but this should be discussed on sites like Fetlife and Alt.com . MM I think should be for models and photographers

Why not here? The androgynous looks is popular.

Isaiah Brink wrote:
I was just curious as to why there have been 3 posts regarding this topic in the last week.

This place is like NASCAR... cautions breed cautions. So, a topic breeds similar threads. If you don't like NASCAR, Model Mayhem threads are like potato chips... you can't have just one.

Isaiah Brink wrote:
Hey Andi, I'll say this, thank you for directly answering my question, I wish so many others could have without the bull that has gone on.  You're really the best person to have answered my question since you started the thread.  Thanks!

Agreed.  I read the entire thread and while I understand why Andi would make the OP, I can't understand the attacks on Isaiah for voicing his opinions in a fundamentally dispassionate voice.

One of the reasons I stay away from these threads is, if you have an opinion, you will be attacked.  It's a shame this thread couldn't have read through to this point with reason instead of viciousness.  Isaiah, you're a saint for maintaining your cool, and Andi, thanks for making such a cerebral OP.

To most of the rest of you, your opinions should run off like water and end up on the ground if you can't allow someone else to voice theirs.

Darren Brade wrote:
"Was"!!! Don't you mean "is"?   ;-)

Thought = Past
Is = Present.

Eng is not my 1st lang

Tilda Swinton is more than immaculate

Isaiah Brink wrote:
Oh, and to answer the question, why not - because there are much better things for us to be talking about than gender bending or who's gotten a gender re assignment.  I mean, come on now, let's bring up something like that may actually help each other become better at what we do, this is after all the industry forum.

Whether you realize it or not it has become an issue in society and therefore an issue in all aspects of life and business - including the fashion and modeling business.

Once there were huge debates as to whether a model with tattoos was viable as a model.  That provoked discussion and, for the most part, acceptance of tattooed models, if for no other reason than it is a reality in our business. The issue of tattooed models was an industry-related discussion.

Transgender issues are becoming more of an issue in public debate than they once were. Some issues include societal acceptance and employment.  And you're right, this is an industry forum.  The employment of transgender models is an industry issue.  Simple as that.

JansuModel wrote:

Thought = Past
Is = Present.

Eng is not my 1st lang

Tilda Swinton is more than immaculate

Your English was actually perfect when you said that.

KWDPhoto wrote:

Agreed.  I read the entire thread and while I understand why Andi would make the OP, I can't understand the attacks on Isaiah for voicing his opinions in a fundamentally dispassionate voice.

One of the reasons I stay away from these threads is, if you have an opinion, you will be attacked.  It's a shame this thread couldn't have read through to this point with reason instead of viciousness.  Isaiah, you're a saint for maintaining your cool, and Andi, thanks for making such a cerebral OP.

To most of the rest of you, your opinions should run off like water and end up on the ground if you can't allow someone else to voice theirs.

When your opinion seeks to silence others who want to get some recognition, then that opinion deserves to be attacked.... and it was.

Miles Devin wrote:
I've recently worked with Andrej in Paris. We make a good team.

OMG! I am so jealous of you and your life!!!!!

Miles Devin wrote:
I've recently worked with Andrej in Paris. We make a good team.

I just looked at your portfolio.  Good grief.  You're awesome.

Little Alice wrote:

Wonderfully written! I had the pleasure of meeting Seth at a fashion show we were both in. He's truly one of a kind