Photographer
Ken Sanville Photo
Posts: 343
Louisville, Colorado, US
Why do models not want to have phone conversations prior to setting up a shoot?
Model
90s sub pop records
Posts: 609
Livermore, California, US
I just had a phone conversation today with a photographer.
It lasted about an hour and 20 minutes.
Majority of the time this photographer was talking about his work with other models, his personal life, a private collector he works with. Talking about the details of the shoot took 5-10 minutes.
This is why I don't like phone calls.
Photographer
Drew Smith Photography
Posts: 5214
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom
Ken Sanville Photo wrote:
Why do models not want to have phone conversations prior to setting up a shoot? 'prior to setting up a shoot'? Do you mean before any arrangements have been agreed?
Usually the shoot specifics are done via PM/email with mobiles coming in to play after the specifics have been agreed.
You may find this thread useful:
https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=897582
Photographer
Top Gun Digital
Posts: 1528
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
To some people talking on the phone may be viewed as overly friendly or too personal when dealing with a stranger. Besides, when you use E-Mail to set up a shoot everything is documented in case any questions arise later on. If you talk on the phone details may be misinterpreted or forgotten.
Model
Amber Dawn - Indiana
Posts: 6255
Salem, Indiana, US
There's really no point, you can do it all through messages. I rather not waste my minutes talking about the shoot if I can do it through messages which is normally faster.
Photographer
MCmodeling
Posts: 749
Sonora, California, US
Call Me Caitlin wrote:
I just had a phone conversation today with a photographer.
It lasted about an hour and 20 minutes.
Majority of the time this photographer was talking about his work with other models, his personal life, a private collector he works with. Talking about the details of the shoot took 5-10 minutes.
This is why I don't like phone calls. LOL that's funny. Because that's why I don't like phone calls with models
Photographer
Ken Sanville Photo
Posts: 343
Louisville, Colorado, US
I guess I am just an old fart who likes personal contact. I will just suck it up and learn to type better.;{
Model
allison mindy
Posts: 1495
Gainesville, Florida, US
I don't mind a phone conversation if you can stick on topic and make it quick and professional. i.e. Don't tell me about your personal life, how you had such a great night out last night, your dog's name, etc. No offense, but unless we are friends I don't care.
That being said I prefer email communication so everything is written down and there is much less room for miscommunication.
Photographer
Solas
Posts: 10390
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Call Me Caitlin wrote:
I just had a phone conversation today with a photographer.
It lasted about an hour and 20 minutes.
Majority of the time this photographer was talking about his work with other models, his personal life, a private collector he works with. Talking about the details of the shoot took 5-10 minutes.
This is why I don't like phone calls. lol
Photographer
Julian W I L D E
Posts: 1831
Portland, Oregon, US
I'll do a quick phone conversation if I get the feeling that a model just wants to know If I'm for Real. Other and that.... No. -JULIAN
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 16713
Orlando, Florida, US
Ken Sanville Photo wrote:
Why do models not want to have phone conversations prior to setting up a shoot? Depends on the shoot, who's paying, who's being paid.
here's my take on what I've witnessed.
Photographer is paying model:
Phone calls are free time that the photographer is getting from the model. They are often long winded and will talk as long as the model will allow. And since the model doesn't want to jeopardize the actual paid shoot, she will allow it to go on for a bit and not be rude. And really, what would possibly require even a 10 minute phone conversation about the upcoming shoot? Personal connection aside, phone conversations are not necessary. Photographers may feel that a personal connection is essential before the shoot, but what if the phone conversation doesn't go well? Then what?
Model
JessieLeigh
Posts: 2109
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
I do not talk to a photographer on the phone until specifics like when we are shooting, where we are shooting, what I am wearing, who is styling and what compensation will be. I like to have shoot specifics in writing.
Photographer
GER Photography
Posts: 8463
Imperial, California, US
I want to get an idea of who I'm going to shoot, no phone conversation, no shoot. I HATE texting!!! it's a phone, talk on it!!:-))
Photographer
Risen Phoenix Photo
Posts: 3779
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
I always insist one, takes 10 minutes
Photographer
PhotographybyT
Posts: 7947
Monterey, California, US
Colorado Model Amber wrote:
There's really no point, you can do it all through messages. I rather not waste my minutes talking about the shoot if I can do it through messages which is normally faster. I find the opposite to be true. For me, a 15-20 minute conversation over the phone can replace weeks of dozens of back and forth messaging.
Model
Siddy Pain
Posts: 593
Stratford, Taranaki, New Zealand
Ken Sanville Photo wrote:
I guess I am just an old fart who likes personal contact. I will just suck it up and learn to type better.;{ You're not alone, I must be a cryptkeeper too. I don't text at all. I keep my method of contact to messaging or phonecalls.
Photographer
Worlds Of Water
Posts: 37732
Rancho Cucamonga, California, US
Ken Sanville Photo wrote:
Why do models not want to have phone conversations prior to setting up a shoot? Because you can read far too much into their character by listening to their tone of voice... NOT possible in a text message... 
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 28745
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
PhotographybyT wrote:
I find the opposite to be true. For me, a 15-20 minute conversation over the phone can replace weeks of dozens of back and forth messaging. This can be corrected if both parties got serious and condensed 20 one-response messages into
"this is who I am, this is what Im offering, this is the proposed schedule, this is what I need from you. Yes or no?"
Cover Who, what, when, where, why, contact info and youre golden. theyll have to ask you very little after that, and vice versa. Ive booked shoots in under 5 messages this way. Makes everybody really happy.
If the other party cant get their shit together and keep up, well....are they worth the hassle?
Photographer
Grady Richardson
Posts: 278
Houston, Texas, US
I prefer to set up shoots by email - that way I have a record of who said what and when. Since I'm always communicating with multiple models about multiple shoots, if I don't have it in written form, it's too easy to get confused.
Photographer
CameraSight
Posts: 1126
Roselle Park, New Jersey, US
PhotographybyT wrote:
I find the opposite to be true. For me, a 15-20 minute conversation over the phone can replace weeks of dozens of back and forth messaging. +1
Photographer
Richard Majerski
Posts: 524
East Hartford, Connecticut, US
I do like to at least call and confirm the appointment the day before to make sure the model plans on showing up.
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 33877
Arcata, California, US
Grady Richardson wrote:
I prefer to set up shoots by email - that way I have a record of who said what and when. Since I'm always communicating with multiple models about multiple shoots, if I don't have it in written form, it's too easy to get confused. Same for me. Having the negotiations in email form has saved me tons of grief. Several times, we've negotiated a TF shoot and at the end of the shoot the model asked "What's this shoot pay?"
I've also had some conversations with younger models who, in email, could manage to communicate, but in a voice call went monosyllabic. Everything was a one-word answer and sometimes was reduced to grunts.
If the model insists on speaking to me to make sure I exist and I'm not an ax-murderer (not sure how she'd determine that via voice call), I'm fine with talking on the phone. No negotiations on the phone, though.
I've got a Jurassic phone. It can receive texts but texting isn't on my plan, and keying in a text takes a month of Sundays.
I use the phone at a last-ditch method for anti-flake verification. Even so, I use email as anti-flake verification. If I have to chase down the model on the phone, I'm already just about ready to cancel the shoot.
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 23575
Salem, Oregon, US
why do models let the calls last so long? i mean 15-30 minutes sounds fine to break the ice and discuss shoot details but 80 minutes? can't you just make up some excuse to get them off the phone? i've scheduled entire shoots solely by text and generally don't speak to the model on the phone unless it's to say "are you on your way?" Call Me Caitlin wrote:
I just had a phone conversation today with a photographer.
It lasted about an hour and 20 minutes.
Photographer
Peach Jones
Posts: 6906
Champaign, Illinois, US
Top Gun Digital wrote:
To some people talking on the phone may be viewed as overly friendly or too personal when dealing with a stranger. Besides, when you use E-Mail to set up a shoot everything is documented in case any questions arise later on. If you talk on the phone details may be misinterpreted or forgotten. I find it the other way around. I HATE emails and texting. Takes forever to get down to the facts when a simple 5 minute phone conversation can take care of it all. Plus there are no voice inflections on email or texting, so thing are all too often misinterpreted.
Photographer
Peach Jones
Posts: 6906
Champaign, Illinois, US
Laura UnBound wrote:
This can be corrected if both parties got serious and condensed 20 one-response messages into
"this is who I am, this is what Im offering, this is the proposed schedule, this is what I need from you. Yes or no?"
Cover Who, what, when, where, why, contact info and youre golden. theyll have to ask you very little after that, and vice versa. Ive booked shoots in under 5 messages this way. Makes everybody really happy.
If the other party cant get their shit together and keep up, well....are they worth the hassle? This would be great if models would ck their MM messages more than once a month.........or more
Photographer
NameChanged
Posts: 371
Kansas City, Missouri, US
Back in the "Good Old Days" you had to talk on the phone because you didn't have email, etc. Today after doing the email thing I still prefer a short conversation on the phone before doing a shoot...(c;
Photographer
PhotographybyT
Posts: 7947
Monterey, California, US
Laura UnBound wrote:
This can be corrected if both parties got serious and condensed 20 one-response messages into
"this is who I am, this is what Im offering, this is the proposed schedule, this is what I need from you. Yes or no?"
Cover Who, what, when, where, why, contact info and youre golden. theyll have to ask you very little after that, and vice versa. Ive booked shoots in under 5 messages this way. Makes everybody really happy.
If the other party cant get their shit together and keep up, well....are they worth the hassle? If we were to shoot, Laura, I'm sure we could schedule based on only a few messages, but I'm in an area that's pretty desolate when it comes to experienced models and experienced ones who might consider collaborating, so I shoot a lot with new ones and those who are still in the process of building their portfolios.
Sometimes beggars can't be choosers so I (and I'm sure a lot of photographers in similar situations) just have to grin and bear it when it comes to going through the hassle.
Sometimes it sucks, but what can you do.
Photographer
theBeachStrober
Posts: 885
Robertsdale, Alabama, US
Peach Jones wrote:
This would be great if models would ck their MM messages more than once a month.........or more Yep
Make a call, get the details discussed. If someone goes on and on, excuse yourself from the conversation.
I don't mind either way, but when communication is lacking regardless of texting or phone call, I can usually tell if the isn't going to happen.
Model
JoJo
Posts: 26560
Clearwater, Florida, US
Ken Sanville Photo wrote:
Why do models not want to have phone conversations prior to setting up a shoot? It's not that models don't want phone conversations prior to a shoot...
It's that models don't want ONLY a phone conversation prior to a shoot.
Hey photographer, put the details in writing via MM PM or email (and NOT txt). This way there is no misunderstanding.
Photographer
PhotographybyT
Posts: 7947
Monterey, California, US
JoJo wrote:
It's not that models don't want phone conversations prior to a shoot...
It's that models don't want ONLY a phone conversation prior to a shoot.
Hey photographer, put the details in writing via MM PM or email (and NOT txt). This way there is no misunderstanding. That's a good point. I always follow up with a written message outlining what was discussed or planned right after the conversation.
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 28745
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Peach Jones wrote:
This would be great if models would ck their MM messages more than once a month.........or more And Id be happier if all photographers _______
Generalizations dont do anybody any favors  If she doesnt want to answer you in a timely manner, move on. Take control of your business.
Photographer
Varton
Posts: 2758
New York, New York, US
In addition to e mail rituals I too care about voice communication. I use phone calls to meter model enthusiasm. Enthusiasm is an essential factor for me on picking one model over the other. During our conversation, the way they express themselves tell me a lot about their personality. From there I can profile them in my mind. I am rarely wrong on my picks.
Photographer
Vector One Photography
Posts: 3722
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US
There's got to be a middle ground. I've had phone conversations with models and some have gone far afield but I've also have miscommunication with the written word. I prefer a phone conversation where you can ask to get a clarification without writing back and forth for weeks. You write, a day later they write back which adds a question so next day you ask for a clarification and on and on while one phone call could end it all. You just have to keep the phone conversations on point.
Photographer
theBeachStrober
Posts: 885
Robertsdale, Alabama, US
Vector One Photography wrote:
There's got to be a middle ground. I've had phone conversations with models and some have gone far afield but I've also have miscommunication with the written word. I prefer a phone conversation where you can ask to get a clarification without writing back and forth for weeks. You write, a day later they write back which adds a question so next day you ask for a clarification and on and on while one phone call could end it all. You just have to keep the phone conversations on point. That's how I operate. Emails and texts to set things up, but sometimes it's tiring to have a texting back and forth for days. When figuring out logistics of actually shooting, a phone conversation can be quicker when it comes to shoot times.
It's like can you shoot on tuesday?
No, how about wednesday?
Wed is bad for me... and on it goes.
A phone call is quicker.
Model
neeeep
Posts: 238
Los Angeles, California, US
Call Me Caitlin wrote:
I just had a phone conversation today with a photographer.
It lasted about an hour and 20 minutes.
Majority of the time this photographer was talking about his work with other models, his personal life, a private collector he works with. Talking about the details of the shoot took 5-10 minutes.
This is why I don't like phone calls. ^^
Photographer
theBeachStrober
Posts: 885
Robertsdale, Alabama, US
Call Me Caitlin wrote:
I just had a phone conversation today with a photographer.
It lasted about an hour and 20 minutes.
Majority of the time this photographer was talking about his work with other models, his personal life, a private collector he works with. Talking about the details of the shoot took 5-10 minutes.
This is why I don't like phone calls. Whats wrong with saying give me the details, I'm short on time?
Photographer
Modelphilia
Posts: 1057
Hilo, Hawaii, US
Peach Jones wrote:
I find it the other way around. I HATE emails and texting. Takes forever to get down to the facts when a simple 5 minute phone conversation can take care of it all. Plus there are no voice inflections on email or texting, so thing are all too often misinterpreted. +10
Model
Rachel in GR
Posts: 1656
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US
They often try to bond with me via phone. It unnerves me.
For me, this is a business opportunity, not a potential future relationship... unless that relationship is purely business, in which case, refer to part A.
Edit: It is important to note that, if you "bond with" someone here, they suddenly expect you to go through hell and high water for them, and for free. I feel that this is inappropriate, considering that they are contacting me about paying me to model for them. I don't appreciate people trying to get freebies.
Photographer
Image Magik
Posts: 1515
Santa Cruz, California, US
Ken Sanville Photo wrote:
I guess I am just an old fart who likes personal contact. I will just suck it up and learn to type better.;{ I don't think your wrong Ken. Your going to be working in with someone and they don't have time to connect on the phone? It's an important part of meeting someone and getting a feel for what kind of person they are. Anybody can claim to be anybody through a text. Also it's much faster to do a ten minute conversation than half hour in text snippets. I'm not calling a model to talk about the weather...
Every model that hasn't wanted to talk on the phone or give out their phone number has been a flake.
Photographer
Image Magik
Posts: 1515
Santa Cruz, California, US
Call Me Caitlin wrote:
I just had a phone conversation today with a photographer.
It lasted about an hour and 20 minutes.
Majority of the time this photographer was talking about his work with other models, his personal life, a private collector he works with. Talking about the details of the shoot took 5-10 minutes.
This is why I don't like phone calls. Excuse yourself from the conversation then. You have boundries. What do you do if a text message goes on and on? Probably just stop texting. So just stop talking.
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If she doesnt want to answer you in a timely manner, move on. Take control of your business.