Risen Phoenix Photo wrote:
I am not trying to go off the subject, but perhaps this is a corollary to the promo model, namely the promo model photographer


So my question is how are these events photographed? I know just about anyone of the attendees can take a snap of any of the models, specially at trade and car shows.

But do you know is there an official need for a photographer for such events and how does one become an official ( maybe not the right term) photographer.

Is it about working with the event organizer? The promo agency?  The individual booth owners?


This actually seems like a blast to shoot.

Yes of course its a BRILLIANT way for photographers to meet models and yes great fun. Certainly I am paid to model already so its my job to be shot. And often have met photographers this way. If a photographer wants to shoot me for a reduced cost I always suggest they come where I am modelling anyway. Its certainly more likely they will get published at an event.


Basically you ask for accreditation from the sporting event or trade fair organisers. Competition for these passes is fierce and media get priority. But the media guys that specialise in the sports side of it are sometimes not interested in the models, fashion and social side of it. So if you express that is what interest you, then you will normally get a pass. You may have to pay. Typically it can cost around £200 for a big event. But if you have a different angle or you can get a local paper or lifestyle mag onside they may be more willing to let you have a pass free. Its harder for events like Royal Ascot and Formula One but not impossible. If you get a big event under your belt and published in a relevant magazine you will find it much easier again.

Drew could be of help here as he does big equestrian events so he may have some tips on getting accreditation.

Here is one of the photographers I met at Cheltenham's report from the festival so you can see that there are models and fashions and social images and celebs a plenty to be had. The top montage is from David Savill photography. One of the images you will see the gorgeous Carla Kyle in a hat from designer Sara Tiara who was one of the designers I represented and was sold to her the day after I wore it and it appeared in the newspapers, and another from Pippa Eastman to her friend.



and its part of the models job to be photographed but you also have fabulous celebs too of course.

Another Italian Guy wrote:
I've worked with models who also do promo. It can be a nice little earner for somebody with the right look and attitude.

Lovely Sarah Beaufoy who has been with many of the known commercial agencies in London also used to be a "Grid Girl" (maybe still is) and posted about it on her Facebook a lot for a couple of years. She seemed to enjoy it.

Ah she's awesome! She was Miss Gloucestershire and done stuff for Coco de Mer one of my favourite stores!

Great think about these threads is they can introduce photographers to some excellent models in various areas. I note her freelance day rate is just £300. Not bad to shoot with a model of her calibre if you have the right project.

Thank you.

Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:
...promotional modelling...

Eliza; Thanks so much for investing the time to enlighten emerging talents here...  I've long be a strong advocate for the aforementioned... in fact one of my very fav colleagues relocated in NYC to pursue work in acting... bottom line? She discovered promotional modelling and has never looked back... totally loves it! 

The good news is it's more like working retail... since my colleague has excellent communicational skills she was a very good fit... With time and effort she was finally taken on as a Brand Ambassador and now enjoys a clear career path forward...

All the info you've provided is spot on...

If you enjoy working with the people, have a beauty pageant smile and an effervescent personality then promotional modeling is a wonderful option...

ArtistryImage wrote:

Eliza; Thanks so much for investing the time to enlighten emerging talents here...  I've long be a strong advocate for the aforementioned... in fact one of my very fav colleagues relocated in NYC to pursue work in acting... bottom line? She discovered promotional modelling and has never looked back... totally loves it! 

The good news is it's more like working retail... since my colleague has excellent communicational skills she was a very good fit... With time and effort she was finally taken on as a Brand Ambassador and now enjoys a clear career path forward...

All the info you've provided is spot on...

If you enjoy working with the people, have a beauty pageant smile and an effervescent personality then promotional modeling is a wonderful option...

Thank you. I hope it remains positive and also acts as informative to photographers and muas too as these events particularly trade fairs like Clothes Show Live, Fet-Con, Bridal shows and big sporting events can be great networking and collaboration efforts too. I know for example the above Cheltenham event the MUA Monika Vrublova who is exceptional came to me at 6am because she was fully booked every morning from racegoing ladies and other models etc.

MedievalIce wrote:
I will say that in my part o the world promo modeling is pretty much the only way that a model can earn a sustainable income modeling, and even then I'm not sure if there is enough to make it a full-time job.

That is true but if you see those who do it by viewing their ports above, they nearly all travel to do it. And it can take them round the world. I know two girls who have worked fashion shows and cosmetics promo on cruise ships, to doing the Eurovision song contest last year, to doing power boat trade fairs in Dubai. Its not huge money, but pretty good, and all expenses paid. They see the world that's for sure. But you have to be good at talking, good posture, smiley, be reasonably intelligent, speaking other languages is a definite advantage, as is product knowledge. The bike girls for example know their bikes; the racing girls know their horses; the cosmetics girls know their cosmetics. And the latter of course makes it also an interesting opportunity for muas. I had samples galore in addition to good wages! I was in Gloucestershire at the time but happy to go to London for the gig.

In NY certainly there'd be plenty of work. And signing up with a promo and talent agency (there are many there) can help. And a model can still work in commercial or fashion or other kinds of photographic modelling too so its a good supplemntary income.

Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:
In NY certainly there'd be plenty of work. And signing up with a promo and talent agency (there are many there) can help. And a model can still work in commercial or fashion or other kinds of photographic modelling too so its a good supplemntary income.

That's exactly it.  I'm about four hours from NYC, so there is no need for promo agencies to reach out this far to find talent.  So basically all the promo stuff that goes on is small-time, local stuff.

MedievalIce wrote:

That's exactly it.  I'm about four hours from NYC, so there is no need for promo agencies to reach out this far to find talent.  So basically all the promo stuff that goes on is small-time, local stuff.

Yes you have to travel. But travel cost there is FAR cheaper than the UK and the client will usually pay the travel expenses, hotels etc anyway.

Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:
Yes you have to travel. But travel cost there is FAR cheaper than the UK and the client will usually pay the travel expenses, hotels etc anyway.

Sure.  But I wonder if that would even be time-cost effective for people living up here.  Also bear in mind that while transportation may be cheaper, it may also be much less available - particularly when we are talking about public transportation.

Edit - And again, most clients probably wouldn't pay travel, hotel, etc. since there is already a pretty big talent base in NYC for which these expenses would be much cheaper.  So I guess my point is not that there is a problem with promo modeling, just simply given the economic situation in my local area and its strange distance/proximity to large cities, it would be rather tricky to make a living from it and still live here.

And it well may be possible for someone to make a living as a promo model in my part of the state, I would imagine that it would make a whole lot more sense just to move closer to the NYC/Philly/Boston - as most do - than stay up here and try to make a living out of it.

MedievalIce wrote:

Sure.  But I wonder if that would even be time-cost effective for people living up here.  Also bear in mind that while transportation may be cheaper, it may also be much less available - particularly when we are talking about public transportation.

Edit - And again, most clients probably wouldn't pay travel, hotel, etc. since there is already a pretty big talent base in NYC for which these expenses would be much cheaper.  So I guess my point is not that there is a problem with promo modeling, just simply given the economic situation in my local area and its strange distance/proximity to large cities, it would be rather tricky to make a living from it and still live here.

And it well may be possible for someone to make a living as a promo model in my part of the state, I would imagine that it would make a whole lot more sense just to move closer to the NYC/Philly/Boston - as most do - than stay up here and try to make a living out of it.

Well yes. If you are getting the work that's what to do. Trickier to do if the work is still irregular though.

Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:
Well yes. If you are getting the work that's what to do. Trickier to do if the work is still irregular though.

Right, which is exactly why there are so few full-time models in my neck of the woods.  There isn't enough work to support it, and most who want to try and be full-time just move.

Cervezax wrote:
Wow. I really want to do promo modeling now. It seems like it pays great and it looks fun!

Hello,

Eliza told me that models can get gigs on cruise ships in Alaska, (I'm in the interior.) Although I highly recommend that wherever you may travel to in order to work as a promo model that you please do your due diligence and have a back up plan for money to safely make your rent or to come home.

I do not say this as a model or as a photographer but as a resident living in Alaska. I know of many people who come here looking for work, (in a non model field) and who get stranded. Being far from home with no means to exist or no back up plan is not fun or safe.

I wish you the best of luck with your future endeavor of promo modeling.

It was not fruitful for me where I lived when I tried it years ago, (in my case it gave me a couple of bucks and only a few contacts but, at the time they were not enough to sustain me.)

Jen
https://www.modelmayhem.com/2196584

Saadiq Photography wrote:
OP,

Yes, promotional modeling can be a means for "some" to earn a few extra dollars... But, such genre of modeling shouldn't be viewed as a means to earn a reliable "consistent" living.

Yes, some promo clients do pay hourly rates that exceed $150 and there may be other promo clients that pay day rates exceeding $500.  But, if you divide the pay rate by the number of days such "promo model" isn't working during the week, month and or year and minus all expenses (travel, hotel etc) I'm sure you'll get a VERY different conclusion. 

Yes, it may be possible that a few "promo models" have earned more than $40k in a year but that's not the norm...  Keep in mind that most promo/trade show gigs only last a few HOURS or a few DAYS not weeks nor months!

Also, I have yet to see and or hear of any note-worthy agency booking promotional work for their listed models!  However, I have heard of a few such note-worthy represented model(s) refusing such promo/trade show job offers via a secondary agency source... even though the job (Maserati) paid more that $3k for 5 (6 hr) days.  Simply put, the model(s) didn't want to "cheaply" tarnish her brand and or take a chance of losing future valued clients. (their words not mine)

I'm not seeking to bash or discredit promo models... but rather, the premise of your overall posting seems to have been painted with a very wide optimistic and one sided opinionated/subjective brush. (based on my industry knowledge and experience)

I could go on to discus/dispute/question the validity and or perception of such "promo model" seen by most industry professionals... but, that conversation would truly derail this thread.  So, I'll end with this question and follow up statement: why would a "scientist/part time model" devote so much time researching and lobbying for promotional modeling? 

Yes, I realize that some aspiring models will find your posting interesting but to most the information/opinion you've posted is NOTHING new.  Sadly, it's as if you're seeking to prove some sort of worthless point... because surely "writing" your PhD merits priority over the context of this thread but what do I know! 


*no pun nor harm intended

Hey Saadiq, I believe one of the models in a previous thread said that Ford booked her for promo. I could be wrong.

I've found it interesting as well. It doesn't matter (to me) if the OP has an agenda or not. The information was useful and maybe helpful to me in the future. I don't know Promo, so it was new to me.

Saadiq Photography wrote:
OP,

Yes, promotional modeling can be a means for "some" to earn a few extra dollars... But, such genre of modeling shouldn't be viewed as a means to earn a reliable "consistent" living.

Yes, some promo clients do pay hourly rates that exceed $150 and there may be other promo clients that pay day rates exceeding $500.  But, if you divide the pay rate by the number of days such "promo model" isn't working during the week, month and or year and minus all expenses (travel, hotel etc) I'm sure you'll get a VERY different conclusion. 

Yes, it may be possible that a few "promo models" have earned more than $40k in a year but that's not the norm...  Keep in mind that most promo/trade show gigs only last a few HOURS or a few DAYS not weeks nor months!

Also, I have yet to see and or hear of any note-worthy agency booking promotional work for their listed models!  However, I have heard of a few such note-worthy represented model(s) refusing such promo/trade show job offers via a secondary agency source... even though the job (Maserati) paid more that $3k for 5 (6 hr) days.  Simply put, the model(s) didn't want to "cheaply" tarnish her brand and or take a chance of losing future valued clients. (their words not mine)

I'm not seeking to bash or discredit promo models... but rather, the premise of your overall posting seems to have been painted with a very wide optimistic and one sided opinionated/subjective brush. (based on my industry knowledge and experience)

I could go on to discus/dispute/question the validity and or perception of such "promo model" seen by most industry professionals... but, that conversation would truly derail this thread.  So, I'll end with this question and follow up statement: why would a "scientist/part time model" devote so much time researching and lobbying for promotional modeling?



Yes, I realize that some aspiring models will find your posting interesting but to most the information/opinion you've posted is NOTHING new.  Sadly, it's as if you're seeking to prove some sort of worthless point... because surely "writing" your PhD merits priority over the context of this thread but what do I know! 


*no pun nor harm intended

She does this to take a break from her regular work.

Saadiq Photography wrote:
OP,

Yes, promotional modeling can be a means for "some" to earn a few extra dollars... But, such genre of modeling shouldn't be viewed as a means to earn a reliable "consistent" living.

No one said it was.  It's a kind of modeling you can do between other kinds of modeling jobs.  A lot of people don't know it's an option, hence this thread.

Saadiq Photography wrote:
Also, I have yet to see and or hear of any note-worthy agency booking promotional work for their listed models!  However, I have heard of a few such note-worthy represented model(s) refusing such promo/trade show job offers via a secondary agency source... even though the job (Maserati) paid more that $3k for 5 (6 hr) days.  Simply put, the model(s) didn't want to "cheaply" tarnish her brand and or take a chance of losing future valued clients. (their words not mine)

There are levels of working model who can afford to turn down $3K jobs, and there are levels of working model who can't.  Some years ago I worked at a PR Agency, and when we did sufficiently high end events for Conde Nast, we got girls from Ford, and from Elite.  Sure, they were probably new faces, but still.

AgathaDelicious wrote:
Love the 'New Model Army' images, OP.

Promo modeling is frequent out here in Sin City. We have the conventions and there are a lot of events and shows. There are all types of theme done. Often you will see male and female 'Elvi' doing promos.

Something I have been curious about looking into is spokesmodeling. I know that during the events out here they will hire both promo models and spokesmodels to present whatever they are showing at the event.

Anyways, it's cool to see some creative promo modeling stuff

I think I might need to move to Vegas once my current work contract is up. I'm not sure what the odds are that they'd take me as a spokes model but it sure would be nice to do that in an area that would offer work on a consistent basis. It is an entertainment capital and I'm sure the work would be better than where I came from.

I'm glad someone from Vegas chimed in. Now 'this' makes more sense to me.
Jen

Saadiq Photography wrote:
OP,
Yes, promotional modeling can be a means for "some" to earn a few extra dollars... But, such genre of modeling shouldn't be viewed as a means to earn a reliable "consistent" living.

Victoria Elle wrote:
No one said it was.  It's a kind of modeling you can do between other kinds of modeling jobs.  A lot of people don't know it's an option, hence this thread.

Actually, the OP's obvious edification of the said payment amounts would suggest a different opinion than yours.

Saadiq Photography wrote:
Also, I have yet to see and or hear of any note-worthy agency booking promotional work for their listed models!  However, I have heard of a few such note-worthy represented model(s) refusing such promo/trade show job offers via a secondary agency source... even though the job (Maserati) paid more that $3k for 5 (6 hr) days.  Simply put, the model(s) didn't want to "cheaply" tarnish her brand and or take a chance of losing future valued clients. (their words not mine)

Victoria Elle wrote:
There are levels of working model who can afford to turn down $3K jobs, and there are levels of working model who can't.  Some years ago I worked at a PR Agency, and when we did sufficiently high end events for Conde Nast, we got girls from Ford, and from Elite.  Sure, they were probably new faces, but still.

Victoria, honestly it doesn't matter to me whom you may have worked for nor does it matter to me said employer's client list. (some of us call this tactic worthless name dropping)

Again, I've never "personally" seen and or heard of ANY note-worthy MODELING agencies booking promotional jobs for their listed models!!!

Keep in mind that any aspiring model/average person can book such promo work. (no agency is needed)  Also, keep in mind... that the average (key word is average) pay for such work most likely wouldn't interest a note-worthy agency based on there expected booking fee i.e 20% of $100.

Furthermore, if a model with note-worthy agency representation is booking low end promotional work via such agency... he and or she hired/signed with the wrong agency!

Saadiq Photography wrote:

Saadiq Photography wrote:
OP,
Yes, promotional modeling can be a means for "some" to earn a few extra dollars... But, such genre of modeling shouldn't be viewed as a means to earn a reliable "consistent" living.

Victoria Elle wrote:
No one said it was.  It's a kind of modeling you can do between other kinds of modeling jobs.  A lot of people don't know it's an option, hence this thread.

Actually, the OP's obvious edification of the said payment amounts would suggest a different opinion than yours.

Saadiq Photography wrote:
Also, I have yet to see and or hear of any note-worthy agency booking promotional work for their listed models!  However, I have heard of a few such note-worthy represented model(s) refusing such promo/trade show job offers via a secondary agency source... even though the job (Maserati) paid more that $3k for 5 (6 hr) days.  Simply put, the model(s) didn't want to "cheaply" tarnish her brand and or take a chance of losing future valued clients. (their words not mine)

Victoria, honestly it doesn't matter to me whom you may have worked for nor does it matter to me said employer's client list. (some of us call this tactic worthless name dropping)

Again, I've never "personally" seen and or heard of ANY note-worthy MODELING agencies booking promotional jobs for their listed models!!!

Keep in mind that any aspiring model/average person can book such promo work. (no agency is needed)  Also, keep in mind... that the average (key word is average) pay for such work most likely wouldn't interest a note-worthy agency based on there expected booking fee i.e 20% of $100.

Furthermore, if a model with note-worthy agency representation is booking low end promotional work via such agency... he and or she hired/signed with the wrong agency!

Thanks for the shout out, Eliza I think it's a very interesting topic and reading your analysis of it over this thread and the last has hopefully been eye-opening for some

Saadiq:
I don't know if you're suggesting that I signed with the wrong agency, but I can assure you that the promo work I booked with Ford was all $350 plus plus plus per day (generally over $50 an hour). I worked with fellow models from Elite, Elmer Olsen, etc. My current agency (also very well known and respected) offers me the occasional promo casting as well. It's rare to impossible to be paid over $150/day for high end editorial work, so believe me, these types of promo jobs are a welcome thing for most models and agencies alike.

Kate Eaton wrote:
Thanks for the shout out, Eliza I think it's a very interesting topic and reading your analysis of it over this thread and the last has hopefully been eye-opening for some

Saadiq:
I don't know if you're suggesting that I signed with the wrong agency, but I can assure you that the promo work I booked with Ford was all $350 plus plus plus per day (generally over $50 an hour). I worked with fellow models from Elite, Elmer Olsen, etc. My current agency (also very well known and respected) offers me the occasional promo casting as well. It's rare to impossible to be paid over $150/day for high end editorial work, so believe me, these types of promo jobs are a welcome thing for most models and agencies alike.

Kate to quite honest and direct... YES, I'm suggesting that you may have signed with the wrong agency!  Because, as a "whole" booking such promo gigs doesn't require an agency not alone a note-worthy agency. (obviously there are exceptions because life/business isn't absolute) 

Nevertheless, I'm not discrediting promo models nor am I bashing promo work... rather I don't agree with the wide optimistic and one sided opinionated/subjective brush the OP chose to paint this thread with. 

In addition there is NOTHING in the OP's posting that's eye opening or new.  In fact, she uses "old" examples in hopes of making a worthless new point. (promo modeling isn't new)  Sure, some aspiring models will find this thread interesting but most will see it as "subjective" news at best.

Saadiq Photography wrote:

Kate to quite honest and direct... YES, I'm suggesting that you may have signed with the wrong agency!  Because, as a "whole" booking such promo gigs doesn't require an agency not alone a note-worthy agency. (obviously there are exceptions because life/business isn't absolute) 

Nevertheless, I'm not discrediting promo models nor am I bashing promo work... rather I don't agree with the wide "subjective" brush the OP chose to paint this thread with. 

In addition there is NOTHING in the OP's posting that's eye opening or new.  In fact, she uses "old" examples in hopes of making a worthless new point. (promo modeling isn't new)  Sure, some aspiring models will find this thread interesting but most will see it as "subjective" news at best.

That's your *opinion.*
I speak from personal experience.

Saadiq Photography wrote:

^^ This is the perfect example of why models may want a private forum of sorts, IMHO.

Many models here are perfectly happy with the information gleaned from the OP. It's not wrong advice or misinformation. It's simply a statement based on real experience.

Since I don't think any of us are Promo photographers, we should let the models decide for themselves what they want to do.

Let them go out and see what Promo opportunities are out there.

They are adult women and no one's going to quit a day job and be shattered if they can't find enough sustainable Promo work.

This is not something we need to swoop in and save them from

(not saying a capable female would ever need saving)

Saadiq Photography wrote:

Kate to quite honest and direct... YES, I'm suggesting that you may have signed with the wrong agency!  Because, as a "whole" booking such promo gigs doesn't require an agency not alone a note-worthy agency. (obviously there are exceptions because life/business isn't absolute) 

Nevertheless, I'm not discrediting promo models nor am I bashing promo work... rather I don't agree with the wide optimistic and one sided opinionated/subjective brush the OP chose to paint this thread with. 

In addition there is NOTHING in the OP's posting that's eye opening or new.  In fact, she uses "old" examples in hopes of making a worthless new point. (promo modeling isn't new)  Sure, some aspiring models will find this thread interesting but most will see it as "subjective" news at best.

Kate's pretty well known here . I'm gonna have to say she knows what she is talking about.

Kate Eaton wrote:

That's your *opinion.*
I speak from personal experience.

Yup - and in my book personal experience kinda trumps 'opinion' every time.

And in general I think people that don't know what they are talking about should simply shut the fuck up.

Drew Smith Photography wrote:

Yup - and in my book personal experience kinda trumps 'opinion' every time.

And in general I think people that don't know what they are talking about should simply shut the fuck up.

Hi, Drew.   I know I promised not to post in the MF again but I did want to mention that AzWah is a industry pro with multiple tears and who works with NY agencies and models.   This is a link to his website:    http://www.azwahsaadiq.com/   His 'opinion' does come from working in the fashion industry.   I am not commenting on the debate.   His personal experience may actually trump 95% of those on MM.   I won't return or respond further.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

Hi, Drew.   I know I promised not to post in the MF again but I did want to mention that AzWah is a industry pro with multiple tears and who works with NY agencies and models.   This is a link to his website:    http://www.azwahsaadiq.com/   His 'opinion' does come from working in the fashion industry.   I am not commenting on the debate.   His personal experience may actually trump 95% of those on MM.   I won't return or respond further.

I appreciate that Tony. My statement was a General statement about 'shutting the fuck up' and not directly aimed at Azwah.

But again - give me personal experience over opinion every time. In general.

Rick OBanion Photo wrote:
Kate's pretty well known here . I'm gonna have to say she knows what she is talking about.

Rick, that seems to be the problem... She's well known HERE in this MM playground!  Not to take anything away Kate's achievements, industry experience and or industry knowledge.  But, here in NYC... MM popularity is a moot point among industry professionals!

Also, I must add that "subjective" opinions are just that... SUBJECTIVE.  I didn't say that the OP's views where false nor did I say Kate's personal "promo modeling experience" was a lie.  I just don't agree with the wide optimistic, one sided, opinionated and subjective brush that the OP chose used to paint this thread.

I even went on to say that; I'm sure a few aspiring models may find this thread interesting but MOST models will find it SUBJECTIVE at best! Which seems to be the case based on the number of white knight photographer coming the OP's defense. 

You see... the TRUTH isn't complicated.  Some models will say that "promo modeling" is a good thing and others may disagree based on their own personal experiences.

But, no one can "factually" say that promo modeling is 100% yay or nay.  Hence my "subjective" remarks.

I'll end with this... I've worked with EVERY and ALL note-worth REAL modeling agencies here in NYC as well in ALL major US markets and I have yet to personally see and or hear of ANY of them booking promo gigs for their listed models! Regardless of Kate's personal agency experience.

So, if any of you find MY statements regarding this topic in error prove it otherwise "shut the fuck up" and move on!  After all this is the right place for MAYHEM

Saadiq Photography wrote:
Rick, that seems to be the problem... She's well known HERE in this MM playground!  Not to take anything away Kate's achievements, industry experience and or industry knowledge.  But, here in NYC... MM popularity is a mute point among industry professionals!

Also, I must add that "subjective" opinions are just that... SUBJECTIVE.  I didn't say that the OP's views where false nor did I say Kate's personal "promo modeling experience" was a lie.  I just don't agree with the wide optimistic, one sided, opinionated and subjective brush that the OP chose to use paint this thread.

I even went on to say that; I'm sure a few aspiring models may find this thread interesting but MOST models will find it SUBJECTIVE at best! Which seems to be the case based on the number of white knight photographer coming the OP's defense. 

You see... the TRUTH isn't complicated.  Some models will say that "promo modeling" is a good thing and others may disagree based on their own personal experiences.

But, no one can "factually" say that promo modeling is 100% yay or nay.  Hence my "subjective" remarks.

I'll end with this... I've worked with EVERY and ALL note-worth REAL modeling agencies here in NYC as well in ALL major US markets and I have yet to personally see and or hear of ANY of them booking promo gigs for their listed models! Regardless of Kate's personal agency experience.

So, if any of you find MY statements regarding this topic in error prove it otherwise "shut the fuck up" and move on!  After all this is the right place for MAYHEM

I think you're confusing "opinion" with coming to the OP's defense. I don't doubt what you say. You are much more knowledgable that I.

Why do you feel it's your job to debunk whatever a model is interested in? I guess my point is, this wasn't a thread about "Promo, is it good or bad?.

Your experience in this area is good and valid, but models will soon find out for themselves if it's a feasible avenue for them right? For some it might be, and this thread would have been valuable to them.

Saadiq Photography wrote:

Rick, that seems to be the problem... She's well known HERE in this MM playground!  Not to take anything away Kate's achievements, industry experience and or industry knowledge.  But, here in NYC... MM popularity is a mute point among industry professionals!

Also, I must add that "subjective" opinions are just that... SUBJECTIVE.  I didn't say that the OP's views where false nor did I say Kate's personal "promo modeling experience" was a lie.  I just don't agree with the wide optimistic, one sided, opinionated and subjective brush that the OP chose to use paint this thread.

I even went on to say that; I'm sure a few aspiring models may find this thread interesting but MOST models will find it SUBJECTIVE at best! Which seems to be the case based on the number of white knight photographer coming the OP's defense. 

You see... the TRUTH isn't complicated.  Some models will say that "promo modeling" is a good thing and others may disagree based on their own personal experiences.

But, no one can "factually" say that promo modeling is 100% yay or nay.  Hence my "subjective" remarks.

I'll end with this... I've worked with EVERY and ALL note-worth REAL modeling agencies here in NYC as well in ALL major US markets and I have yet to personally see and or hear of ANY of them booking promo gigs for their listed models! Regardless of Kate's personal agency experience.

So, if any of you find MY statements regarding this topic in error prove it otherwise "shut the fuck up" and move on!  After all this is the right place for MAYHEM

Perhaps the Canadian market is different than what you are used to dealing with, Saadiq. Fair enough. I was on the Ford main board and am currently on the main board of another major agency. These jobs involve castings that are closed to all models not selected by the client from the big ("legit") agencies in the city and occur on average of maybe twice per year. They are by no means my (or any of my peer's) "bread and butter" clients (that would be catalogue work, in my market anyhow) but, frankly, $50/hour or more is a welcome gig when you have a mortgage to pay.

I realize that all promo work is *not* like this; outside of work obtained through major agencies, it can be low paying and, in my opinion, much more undesirable in terms of working conditions and job description. But *my experience* of promo work booked through *my agencies* has been positive and profitable.

(FYI - I think you mean "moot", not "mute")