Image Unit wrote:
Ok, so we do casting calls A LOT!  On MM and other sites.  But what kills me is, the difference between the QUALITY of models that submit for the paid gigs.  I honestly don't think that some of the "models" have an HONEST idea of their competition.
So I say this....lol.....
Every model that wants to get paid, and wants her special set of conditions, should post a CASTING CALL with everything SHE wants, and see who responds.
After that, she should look at her top 5 responses, and be HONEST with herself and say, "Is my port better than those, or at least as good?"  If not, then she wans too much.  It would be an honest wakeup call for them to up their game.
Go ahead, and post that "$250/hr. 4 hour minimum. Hair and MUA a must." photo shoot you feel you are worth.  And look at the 20 Playmates and 50 FHM Models that will reply with 100 items of their resume.  They EARNED the money.  And they will see what WE see as the people that do the castings......and they will actually be able to make the changes that WILL get them paid.
I know this sounds harsh, but it's the truth, some people just need some honest.....perspective.

You can't ask for pay in a casting call.

And even if you could, the playing field wouldn't be even because the same people would not be seeing or possibly applying to every casting.

In one test group you might get a few people with money to burn and they might fulfill the model's needs. In another you might have a predominance of hobbyists looking for TF only.

It's easy enough to skip past the models you don't want, that are applying for paid gigs right?

Everyone's taste is different

Image Unit wrote:
Ok, so we do casting calls A LOT!  On MM and other sites.  But what kills me is, the difference between the QUALITY of models that submit for the paid gigs.  I honestly don't think that some of the "models" have an HONEST idea of their competition.
So I say this....lol.....
Every model that wants to get paid, and wants her special set of conditions, should post a CASTING CALL with everything SHE wants, and see who responds.
After that, she should look at her top 5 responses, and be HONEST with herself and say, "Is my port better than those, or at least as good?"  If not, then she wans too much.  It would be an honest wakeup call for them to up their game.
Go ahead, and post that "$250/hr. 4 hour minimum. Hair and MUA a must." photo shoot you feel you are worth.  And look at the 20 Playmates and 50 FHM Models that will reply with 100 items of their resume.  They EARNED the money.  And they will see what WE see as the people that do the castings......and they will actually be able to make the changes that WILL get them paid.
I know this sounds harsh, but it's the truth, some people just need some honest.....perspective.

They don't need to learn anything. YOU need to learn that you cannot control what other people do, you can only control how you react to what others do.

I would advise you to 'react' to what you see as models being unrealistic in their expectations in a more productive manner - namely; don't get your panties in a bunch about it and focus on doing your own thing.

If, as you believe, some models are asking for too much then the market forces prevalent here on MM and in the real world will firmly apply a hand to their rudder.

PARAGON wrote:

You can't ask for pay in a casting call.

And even if you could, the playing field wouldn't be even because the same people would not be seeing or possibly applying to every casting.

In one test group you might get a few people with money to burn and they might fulfill the model's needs. In another you might have a predominance of hobbyists looking for TF only.

It's easy enough to skip past the models you don't want, that are applying for paid gigs right?

Everyone's taste is different

I mean, the model should POST a casting call with the rate of pay SHE would want.  And look at the responses.  Every casting call WE post...there is a box for "pay" and the amount of pay we are offering.  That's what THEY should do.  POST a casting as if they were a casting agent.....and see the responses from the models that respond.....and compare.  And yes, they should be able to get  a good understanding of their competition by the responses.  Just take the top 5, because that's what the casting agents will do.

Image Unit wrote:
{snip}

I mean, the model should POST a casting call with the rate of pay SHE would want.

Models can't ask for pay. That box is for people that are doing the paying.

From the rules

PAID: labeling a post PAID means that you are looking to hire and PAY someone. Bartering of any kind is not considered pay. Deferred payments of any kind is not considered pay. Paid casting does not mean you want someone to pay you.

Drew Smith Photography wrote:
Beetlejuice...Beetlejuice...Beetlejuice!

Oh wait...... no, that isn't going to work for a month now.

Aha has the gauntlet been thrown down already, was it this Wednesday?

Drew Smith Photography wrote:

They don't need to learn anything. YOU need to learn that you cannot control what other people do, you can only control how you react to what others do.

I would advise you to 'react' to what you see as models being unrealistic in their expectations in a more productive manner - namely; don't get your panties in a bunch about it and focus on doing your own thing.

If, as you believe, some models are asking for too much then the market forces prevalent here on MM and in the real world will firmly apply a hand to their rudder.

That's not my issue.  I said NOTHING about CONTROL.  I don't know where you got CONTROL from (maybe that's YOUR issue if you read that into what I said.)  I said....PERSPECTIVE.  I believe it would be PRODUCTIVE for THEM to have perspective.
We do what we do. What we have always done. Post our castings and pick the best model.  The only people we "react" to, are the ones we book.
But after doing it time after time, you see the same models....30 lbs overweight, and you cant see the bikini because of the rolls.....and you have to ask yourself, "Are you really hoping to take this $1,000 from someone who is actually tight?"  "Do you even KNOW what you are up against?"
You see,....me "focusing on my own thing" IS digging through these casting calls and having to actually take time to click on ALL the submissions.  Because that's part of my job.  So this IS me....focusing on my own thing.  And just being honest.  And not all PC.  This is MODELING, and PHOTOGRAPHY.  Almost by definition, it is VISUAL....so LOOKS MATTER!  Period.  It's not about being "PC".  I notice...the model on your avatar isn't pushing 300lbs.

PARAGON wrote:

Models can't ask for pay. That box is for people that are doing the paying.

From the rules

PAID: labeling a post PAID means that you are looking to hire and PAY someone. Bartering of any kind is not considered pay. Deferred payments of any kind is not considered pay. Paid casting does not mean you want someone to pay you.

Ok Paragon.  To make it easier for you to understand the concept.  Let's just say..... I wish every model could be looking over my shoulder when we look through the responses from the paid castings WE post.  Does that make it easier to follow the concept?

Image Unit wrote:
I know this sounds harsh, but it's the truth, some people just need some honest.....perspective.

Said the man with a photo of a lingerie model wielding a Samurai sword in his portfolio. 

In case you haven't figured it out yet, this site is full of a mixture of people who have varying tastes, interests, fetishes, and opinions.  You shoot a certain style, but not everyone model that sees your style will like it.  I'm sure you, just like everyone else here, would like to get paid for your time and energy.  SOME people will buy that time, but some won't. 

Doesn't matter how good you are (or in some cases how good you THINK you are).  You could post a casting offering $10,000 and there would still be models out there who wouldn't respond, simply because it's not what they want in their book.  The model might fit your standard, but that doesn't mean you fit theirs.

How's that for perspective?

PARAGON wrote:
Models can't ask for pay. That box is for people that are doing the paying.

From the rules

PAID: labeling a post PAID means that you are looking to hire and PAY someone. Bartering of any kind is not considered pay. Deferred payments of any kind is not considered pay. Paid casting does not mean you want someone to pay you.

Image Unit wrote:
Ok Paragon.  To make it easier for you to understand the concept.  Let's just say..... I wish every model could be looking over my shoulder when we look through the responses from the paid castings WE post.  Does that make it easier to follow the concept?

No need for sarcasm. The flawed concept has been clear from the start.

For example, you want models to reevaluate themselves and their rates, pitted against other models out there. That's fine for you.

But after doing it time after time, you see the same models....30 lbs overweight, and you cant see the bikini because of the rolls.....and you have to ask yourself, "Are you really hoping to take this $1,000 from someone who is actually tight?"  "Do you even KNOW what you are up against?

I don't think it's a critique to say that I wouldn't have booked many of the models you have in your port. That's not a critique on your photography. It's just a difference in taste.

Live and let live.

OOPS EDIT: I switched profiles and forgot. Paragon is my other profile sorry.

PrimePix wrote:
I get what your saying and I must agree with you on the wake up call.... apparently a port full of cell phone pics commands top dollars these days....

You know what works well as a "wake up call"?  The Critique Forum. 

I highly recommend it...to everyone.

Image Unit wrote:
{snippet}

Almost by definition, it is VISUAL....so LOOKS MATTER!  Period.  It's not about being "PC".  I notice...the model on your avatar isn't pushing 300lbs.

I take exception to this comment. A heavier girl may not be what you're looking for, but let's not air any prejudices toward overweight people here please.

I have worked with a few big girls, all of them beautiful and worthy of much respect.

Danielle Reid wrote:
Who the hell is actually asking $250/hour with a 4 hour minimum? Are we shooting for Reality Kings or Brazzers?

LOL girl... U bust me up...

Image Unit wrote:

That's not my issue.  I said NOTHING about CONTROL.  I don't know where you got CONTROL from (maybe that's YOUR issue if you read that into what I said.)  I said....PERSPECTIVE.  I believe it would be PRODUCTIVE for THEM to have perspective.
We do what we do. What we have always done. Post our castings and pick the best model.  The only people we "react" to, are the ones we book.
But after doing it time after time, you see the same models....30 lbs overweight, and you cant see the bikini because of the rolls.....and you have to ask yourself, "Are you really hoping to take this $1,000 from someone who is actually tight?"  "Do you even KNOW what you are up against?"
You see,....me "focusing on my own thing" IS digging through these casting calls and having to actually take time to click on ALL the submissions.  Because that's part of my job.  So this IS me....focusing on my own thing.  And just being honest.  And not all PC.  This is MODELING, and PHOTOGRAPHY.  Almost by definition, it is VISUAL....so LOOKS MATTER!  Period.  It's not about being "PC".  I notice...the model on your avatar isn't pushing 300lbs.

Okay dokey - let me put it another way then:

Nobody cares what you think or recommend. Nobody that you think should take notice of what you say will see this in this forum.

And if you are so exhausted from 'clicking' on all those submissions contact an agency. 

IBTL

Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:

You know what works well as a "wake up call"?  The Critique Forum. 

I highly recommend it...to everyone.

Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:
You know what works well as a "wake up call"?  The Critique Forum. 

I highly recommend it...to everyone.

That, I guess, depends on your perspective....





Just my $0.02 etc. etc.

Disclaimer: I have a "nude agenda", so anything I say about nudity should definitely be ignored. It's also possible that some might perceive me as "a bit of a c**t", so you should probably take that into account when reading my posts too. Sorry about all that.

Camabs wrote:
Where's the popcorn when you need it?

here you go, have some

Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:

Said the man with a photo of a lingerie model wielding a Samurai sword in his portfolio.

That sounds like an unsolicited critique, how longs it going to take you to figure out the site?

Image Unit wrote:
Ok, so we do casting calls A LOT!  On MM and other sites.  But what kills me is, the difference between the QUALITY of models that submit for the paid gigs.  I honestly don't think that some of the "models" have an HONEST idea of their competition.
So I say this....lol.....
Every model that wants to get paid, and wants her special set of conditions, should post a CASTING CALL with everything SHE wants, and see who responds.
After that, she should look at her top 5 responses, and be HONEST with herself and say, "Is my port better than those, or at least as good?"  If not, then she wans too much.  It would be an honest wakeup call for them to up their game.
Go ahead, and post that "$250/hr. 4 hour minimum. Hair and MUA a must." photo shoot you feel you are worth.  And look at the 20 Playmates and 50 FHM Models that will reply with 100 items of their resume.  They EARNED the money.  And they will see what WE see as the people that do the castings......and they will actually be able to make the changes that WILL get them paid.
I know this sounds harsh, but it's the truth, some people just need some honest.....perspective.

I believe we all want the imagery that's out there to be the best there is, no matter if we are a photographer, a model, an MUA or a Wardrobe Designer. Of course, 'best' is pretty subjective, and every single one of us started... somewhere. Pretty sure we didn't know quite as much then as we do now, and I believe we will all know a bit more tomorrow.

Having said that, there is a difference between the practical and the desired. Your OP is more rant than anything, so it really should have been posted in OT. Also, as it has been stated, the rules forbid a model posting a CC asking for pay. Again, you are possibly frustrated, and just want to get some ideas across, but (IMHO) are going about it in wrong way.

Also, as you are exercising your frustration concerning models, be aware that a model who may consider working with you can search the forums by a member's number, and can see what threads you create. She may think she's unworthy and pass on a session with you, and you never know, she may look like just the model you were looking for, but was scared off by your disdain for someone who has unknowingly requested an unrealistic level of compensation.

Will your imaginary CC idea help her learn? Possibly, but it may just cause discouragement. Better to let a model learn the ropes by doing all on her own. She'll eventually see what she needs to do to be able to request a high level of compensation.

Again, IMHO, the whole situation could be used as a learning experience for YOU, and how to vett models for your own purposes, and not to waste time with people who evidently don't fit your criteria.

Camabs wrote:
Where's the popcorn when you need it?

Highly entertaining thread, I hope the OP stocked up on lube, its looking like he will need it.

London Fog wrote:
Why is it when a photographer posts a thread on here about the quality of models (and he has a valid point in some cases) everyone attacks in droves with all the usual defensive BS!

Leave the guy alone and let him have his say?

Entertainment maybe.. beats me

Koryn wrote:
About 75% of the photographers who responded had horrifically bad portfolios. Another 20% were not awful, but not beneficial either, and the last few were pretty decent but would have probably shot for trade. I remember that none of the respondents really had anything exceptional to offer.

That being said, there are very few shoots I do these days where I'm not getting paid to do them. Very, very few - and I assure you that I earn every penny I take home.

This.
I don't think when I first started out on here that i took the time to browse through the browse function. Depending on where you live, you could scroll through 100's of pages. It's time consuming.

But I moved away, and had to start using it, and there it was actually like 85% of the photographers because New Mexico is not a mecca for nudes.

Now that I moved back here, I again need to use browse, and yes, those numbers are pretty dead on

It's actually probably the same kind of odds with models for photographers, but I'd like to think I'm in that small "worthy" percentage, but hey the secret is we ALL think we are in that worthy %

that's how life works, we kind of all think we are the shit but the truth is we can't ALL be the shit now can we lol

Elizabeta Rosandic wrote:
Who is this "we" you speak of?

The people who don't get the "right" interest in their casting calls!

Come on... keep up!!





Just my $0.02 etc. etc.

Disclaimer: I have a "nude agenda", so anything I say about nudity should definitely be ignored. It's also possible that some might perceive me as "a bit of a c**t", so you should probably take that into account when reading my posts too. Sorry about all that.

Image Unit wrote:
30 lbs overweight, and you cant see the bikini because of the rolls.....and you have to ask yourself, "Are you really hoping to take this $1,000 from someone who is actually tight?"  "Do you even KNOW what you are up against?"
I notice...the model on your avatar isn't pushing 300lbs.

I'm sorry but who are you to say who looks good and who doesn't?
Just because most people (in certain countries) consider only skinny women good looking it doesn't matter than larger women have to be ashamed of themselves and can't try their luck as well. Big women also can be beautiful.
How long does it take you to check someone's profile or even look at the profile picture, 5 seconds? If you don't like someone you don't have to reply.
Actually, I had this kind of problem (it's still there but I'm trying to fight with it), I was afraid to answer to casting calls (TFP) because of people like YOU, because I didn't want anyone to think about me the way you think about models who are not good enough in your opinion... In other words: "how dare you answer to my casting call you fat cow? Don't you see there are better and skinnier models than you? Are you mad?".

REALLY nice. Personally, after reading this I'd never want to work with a photographer like you anyway. Reminds me of a fool who told me I look like I eat in McDonald's every day- it happened when I was a teenager and really sensitive about my weight (even tho I was much skinnier than now and definitely not overweight).

Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:

You know what works well as a "wake up call"?  The Critique Forum. 

I highly recommend it...to everyone.

Someone had to say it...

Elizabeta Rosandic wrote:
Who is this "we" you speak of?