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Do you ever envy photographers?
Do you ever look at a photographer's work who is also a great retoucher and wonder if you should get into photography? I sometimes catch myself doing this, wishing I could "invent" the images rather than just sit around and hope somebody sends me something spectacular. I'm well aware that the jump to photography is complex! Just because I can post process does not mean I can take pictures. I may have the vision...but the actual dynamics of taking images would be completely new. but I just wondered if anyone else has considered it. Aug 19 09 12:11 pm Link Well I was the oppisite , a photographer . I wanted to be a good photo artist , digital artist and I started out as a really crappy one lol But I learned alot from a forum I used to go to and personal workshops . It took me ten years to get even this good and I know I can improve . I think you if you already have a good eye in ps then you would probably do well in photography , just learn the basics and get a decent camera and shoot like crazy and learn from experience plus take some formal classes . Aug 19 09 12:16 pm Link I not only felt this way, but went and did something about it! I bought a snazzy little Canon G10 ("prosumer" point-and-shoot that's bad in low light and has a small sensor, but 14 megapixel and can take RAW) along with an external pivoting flash I can bounce off things. It's been great fun to play with, and I have the added bonus that I photoshop out my amateur photography mistakes in post later! Not that anyone is interested, but here's the only picture I've been happy enough with to post on MM. I bought one of those science fair boards and used it as a reflector for the flash. It was a somewhat funny sight; I'd set the self timer on the camera for 10 seconds, then frantically pick up the poster board, struggling to get the right angle before the camera took the picture! To any retouchers who want to experiment with photography: DO IT! Aug 19 09 12:40 pm Link I actually started the other way around, I was first a photographer. ( https://www.modelmayhem.com/digitaledgephotos I still shoot on occasion, however there are several photographers out there that will always be ahead of my game and it makes me somewhat like a little guy in a very very very light box lol. If there is one thing I have succeeded in is not giving up. Someday I too I hope to be a big shot like David LaChapelle...in my dreams haha. I think you should go for it, with your talent in Photoshop you could push photography to a whole nother level. You can conquer the world when you put your heart and mind into something. Gavin Retouch Aug 19 09 12:44 pm Link The best retouchers are photographers first. That's especially true here on MM where I don't think I've seen a good retoucher who's title is Photoshop Wiard. It's my opinion that it helps to understand the whole process. Aug 19 09 12:48 pm Link MinisterC wrote: Ouch. Aug 19 09 12:50 pm Link After the vision ( and opportunities ) of some photographers After viewing a stunning exhibition of the German photographer Andraes Gursky yesterday ...He is high on my envy list http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=h … 1%26um%3D1 Aug 19 09 12:52 pm Link mikedimples wrote: No kidding. I have to disagree as well, I consider myself a decent retoucher. I've also seen some AMAZING Photoshop Wizards on here who haven't touched a camera either. It really just depends on whether you have an eye for it or not. Aug 19 09 12:53 pm Link mikedimples wrote: Thats awsome...how much did it cost you? I wanna see if I'm actually any good at it before I take a real plunge Aug 19 09 12:54 pm Link The G10 was $400, the flash was $250, the poster board was $8.99. I just now noticed that my cropping sucks. Aug 19 09 12:57 pm Link mikedimples wrote: Lol you listed the poster board cost too! Thanks though! I really might give it a try, just gotta save up a little Aug 19 09 12:58 pm Link Usually taking the plunge comes before getting good. Aug 19 09 01:00 pm Link JL Retouching wrote: i cant imagine being a photoshop wizard and not learning how to take a picture, how else could you ever realise a vision, essential in being an artist.I cant think of any reason not to at least try to learn how to use a camera Aug 19 09 01:20 pm Link LeDeux Art wrote: From a photographers point of view, I agree. Aug 19 09 01:27 pm Link I wish I knew how to cook... Also, you don't need a G10 to start taking pictures; any modern day camera will do. If you've got at least three or four megapixels, you're good to go! A good way to start is taking non-flash photos using existing light. Notice how the direction of the light defines the objects. Mess around and have fun with it - I bet you'll end up addicted like me. Aug 19 09 01:32 pm Link i was a retoucher first. i don't know what gave you the impression that the "jump" to photography is complex. photography is the easiest thing in the world. once you abandon the mystique surrounding getting "the perfect capture" and regard every step along the way as data collection towards an ultimate goal...everything is logical and practical. Aug 19 09 01:37 pm Link Brian Ziff wrote: I don't know, Brian, yeah snapping a picture isn't hard but not everyone with a camera can shoot well... Even if the person is textbook with it Aug 19 09 01:40 pm Link I actually retouched a crappy photographers work and decided 'Screw this, i can do better!' Aug 19 09 01:45 pm Link Dannielle Levan wrote: Thats what I've thought sometimes....I mean we at least know what good lighting looks like, thats the first step to being able to create it right? Aug 19 09 01:46 pm Link JL Retouching wrote: Very true. man, you should have seen this girls work. She had a photography diploma and STILL couldn't properly expose a frame. O.O Aug 19 09 01:51 pm Link LADY SWEET FACE wrote: Right, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's easy. A camera is an inordinately simple device to operate. Speaking objectively, becoming a photographer is easy. Aug 19 09 01:59 pm Link Hey, I wanna be like me when I grow up!! ;-) -JULIAN Aug 19 09 02:00 pm Link (Sorry, my poor english) Umm. My thought is ..... Retoucher ( I mean, Not just skin flatironer or skin shoes-shiner) & Photogrpher have different purpose each other. In recently, Most of photogrphers are exactly retoucher. but some of them said "Retouching work is easy, and retoucher is a parasite of photo." I heard that words from a certain photographer. but perhaps, he is a retoucher too, I think. Maybe, He never upload or sell his natural pic without retouching. (exposure & color correction & mood effects & etc basic retouching) Snapping photo is easy work, everyone have their camera .. one or two. and they can snap photo, If he have enough studio & models. At first, perhaps, He does mistake some, but he will improve his snap skill more and more. He can be a photographer. To be a photographer is not hard. but I know, To be a best photographer is very hard. As the similar principle, To be a retoucher is very easy, just install photo tools in his PC. But To be a best retoucher is not easy work, I think. I think we are aiming to the best, Photographer & retoucher too! but we are not best yet. If someone need "firing big sun pic", If someone need "white bear in North" If someone need "Dragon's fire or fairy's wing" for his last artworks... If he is a normal photographer, he never get that pics by himself. and when that situation, He must be a NASA employee? or adventurer at cold North? or Fantastic knight? just to snap 1 pic for short photo project? My thought is, That's not real answer. We can help each other. Sometimes, Photographers need Retouhcer's help. Sometimes, Retouchers need photographer's help. Only closed mind painter think "Photogrphing is easy work than painting" Only closed mind photographer think "Retouching is easy work than snapping photos." Only closed mind retoucher think "My works are messy or teenagerish or meaningless work." My thought is..... Painter's world has very deep & wide. Photographer's world is same too. Retoucher's world is not different too. I think, Painter & Photogrpher & Retoucher meet in same point, That point is called, "ART". Most of Retoucher are digital artist. He is not good photogrpher, maybe. but he is a well retoucher & excellent digital artist. Most of Photogrpher are Photo Artist. He is not good painter, maybe. but he is a well photographer & excellent photo artist. Most of painter, use Mixed media. They use photo skill & retouching skill too. We are not same, but not enemy, or just not envy each other. We are just specialist in their own section. And If some need it in other section, We can help each other. Of course, Photograhper can be a retoucher or painter. but Retoucher can be a photographer or others too. But that fact is not said "real Value of that work." (I am very sorry, my poor & dull english. but my thought about photographing & retouching is like above. ) Aug 19 09 02:13 pm Link Wizard Ryu wrote: Well said. I agree, anyone can retouch and anyone can take photographs...to be good at it is a different story all together. Aug 19 09 02:16 pm Link I was just about to write that exact post, but Wizard Ryu beat me to it. Aug 19 09 02:17 pm Link JL Retouching wrote: I'm in the lucky position that i'm going to sent on a photography course here by the (how do I describe it to non Irish - FAS for those who know the system here) Local employment scheme people. It was that or photoshop course and after talking to them and the teacher we decided I'd be better with the photography PLUS it gives me the good option to branch then. Aug 19 09 02:21 pm Link JL Retouching wrote: +1 Aug 19 09 02:21 pm Link Regarding the jump to photography as being too complex I agree with Brian that "it isn't so". I do my own retouching and I don't think the jump was too hard. Although I'm not perfect I don't think there's magic formula you can't learn if you don't have the gift for retouching. You do however have to do allot of work and have passion for what you do or the result you're interested in making. Brian Ziff wrote: I don't think I can agree with what you're saying entirely, I'm no where near where I want to be from a photographer stand point. Creating an image you have on your mind and then putting it in "reality" is still a problem to me, sometimes I think its me, other times I think I need more equipment, or the model, or the wardrobe. But the reality is that I'm not getting the result of what I originally imagined. Aug 19 09 02:59 pm Link I have found that the very best digital artists started out as traditional artists, mainly illustrators. Their sense of place and shadow and perspective far outweighs anything that a mere photographer brings to the party. I wish I were a classically trained artist. Aug 19 09 03:17 pm Link I've seen the best retouchers (and photographers) have had backgrounds in other arts. Being able to draw and/or paint really trains someone to really see things as a visual artist. Aug 19 09 03:26 pm Link It's the truth. Here's some art theory that translates well into retouching: http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm#the_onion Aug 19 09 03:27 pm Link I know this is going off-topic a bit, but if anyone is interested in developing their inner-art, here's some training you can do: Grab a piece of paper and pick something random in your house/backyard to draw. Don't use any lines!!! Start by looking at the scene you're about to draw and unfocusing your eyes, paying attention to the values (light and dark). Analyze the scene; where is the light coming from? How does the light reveal the form of the objects? Start with the blackest parts, shading it on your paper. Next move to the next darkest, and so on. After you're happy with how the tones look, feel free to add some detail on top, but NEVER START WITH DETAIL. Training your eye to see in tone/value is a great way to develop the artist within. Hold the back side of your drawing to a light source to reveal the distortions our brain automatically corrects. Some common beginner artist misconceptions: 1. Assuming they need classes or tutorials to learn 2. Drawing with lines and symbols, instead of values (the illusion of lines are created by contrast in values) 3. Expecting to make art to show people - your first few years of art will suck. you're brain is learning to process information in a new way, and is calibrating. Expect to throw away/put into storage everything you draw. Putting effort into making polished professional pieces will frustrate you and slow your learning while you're a beginner. Aug 19 09 03:56 pm Link Dannielle Levan wrote: I thought we agreed to keep that between us. Aug 19 09 04:12 pm Link I don't have much of an interest in retouching, just the basics. Probably because once you shot a transparency the responsibility and skills were with the art dir to take it to the next stage. Aug 19 09 04:28 pm Link I study a ton of photography and I am constantly blown away by good shots... Pretty much all of the lighting I paint is a direct result of studying contemporary photography... Aug 19 09 04:47 pm Link JL, I used to think the same way! I didn't start out as a retoucher, but a graphic designer stuck with looking for stock images. And depending on the client's budget, it was sometimes slim pickings! So I started shooting on my own and having a great time with it. Go buy a camera!! Aug 19 09 04:53 pm Link Both photography and retouching are artistic expressions. A great photography can become a masterpiece with great post-processing. 20 years ago the standard for great photography was different than today because of the advance in retouching techniques; so a great picture in the 80s might not look so great now (some are classics and still do though) because retouching has helped elevate photography to new levels of quality and expectation. I cannot say that taking a great photograph is way harder than doing a superb editing job, nor the opposite. I do believe that there is a steep long lasting curve for both things, however there are 2 truths I can mention: 1) As a photographer you need to deal with a lot of technical and environmental aspects (choosing the right equipment, to master the use of light, to have a great sunny day/beautiful background, to have the right pose from the model, etc...). 2) A retoucher works on a controlled situation. You can always delete or tweak a layer. Restart all over if necessary. But if you want to post-process an image to perfection it can take as long as an entire 6 hour photoshoot. Another thing is that as a photographer, "Lady Luck" might surprise you with a jaw dropping image(the light hit perfectly, and the model gave you that perfect look); but as a retoucher "luck" is something never comes into play. Anyways, those are my 2 cents (from a photographer/retoucher that hopes to improve in both fields in the years to come). Aug 19 09 05:38 pm Link I'm leaning towards photography too, but $2500 for canon 5d mkII, $300 pocketwizards and i'm not going to start about the price for flashes and good lenses. Gotta invest a pretty penny to really get into photography. Aug 19 09 08:16 pm Link I envy good PS wizards want to switch  Aug 19 09 08:26 pm Link I don't envy the photographer "title" but I do love taking (creating) pictures/ideas. I like to be an artist first. Aug 19 09 08:27 pm Link |
