Doug Swinskey wrote:
they are no different then any other model....

as long as you understand "age appropriate" images.

QFT.

Doug Swinskey wrote:
they are no different then any other model....

as long as you understand "age appropriate" images.

Agreed.

ANE Photography wrote:
It may help to tell you that I am a 21 year old female which may make a difference between me and a middle aged man doing their photos.
ANY advice you can give about this subject would be very helpful!

Once you stop focusing on whatever the difference is that you perceive between yourself and a middle age man doing the photos you are more likely to be able to approach shoots like this in a professional, objective way, and such questions will seem less necessary.

Doug Swinskey wrote:
they are no different then any other model....

as long as you understand "age appropriate" images.

This really sums it up nicely..

Emeritus wrote:

Once you stop focusing on whatever the difference that you perceive between yourself and a middle age man doing the photos you are more likely to be able to approach shoots like this in a professional, objective way, and such questions will seem less necessary.

+1

sns-photo wrote:

Emeritus wrote:
Once you stop focusing on whatever the difference that you perceive between yourself and a middle age man doing the photos you are more likely to be able to approach shoots like this in a professional, objective way, and such questions will seem less necessary.

I only feel this way because of middle aged men photographers in my area that tell me that they can't do shoots like this and wouldn't even speak to a minor about a photo shoot. It's these comments from them that make me ask such questions as the topic of this post.

sns-photo wrote:

+1

middle aged man and a female photographer does make a huge difference!
and no Im not pointing a finger just stating fact...

ANE Photography wrote:
My question is, how do I handle these situations with minor models?

You handle it as you would any shoot, thoughtfully, cordially, and professionally.

ANE Photography wrote:
This other girl I haven't worked with but on her myspace page has under "modeling" a bunch of barely clothed photos. Obviously this isn't the work I want to do with a 16 year old.

What kind of images the 16 year old has done in the past has no bearing on what you will do with her in the future.  She came to you for a shoot because she likes your work, so don't let her dictate the events.  Take control, shoot her in an age appropriate manner that makes you feel comfortable, and stop worrying about it.  If you take the lead she will follow.

ANE Photography wrote:
My question is, how do I handle these situations with minor models? It may help to tell you that I am a 21 year old female which may make a difference between me and a middle aged man doing their photos.

-IS wrote:
middle aged man and a female photographer does make a huge difference!
and no Im not pointing a finger just stating fact...

Makes a big difference to whom, and about what?  I'd love to hear your rendition of how a middle aged man should handle a shoot with a 16 year old that is different from how a female photographer should.

Perhaps the National Guard should be notified, and a repesentative of the ACLU present?

Mac Swift wrote:
Not all of us middle aged, male photographers are perverts, rapists and axe murderers.

In witness whereof, all of my last four models have survived.

Emeritus wrote:

In witness whereof, all of my last four models have survived.

lame terms.. I would trust my daughter with a 21 year old female photographer before I trusted a middle age man or any man at that

-IS wrote:
lame terms.. I would trust my daughter with a 21 year old female photographer before I trusted a middle age man or any man at that

May I ask why?

Chris Keeling wrote:

May I ask why?

just would, natural reaction I guess..

-IS wrote:
lame terms.. I would trust my daughter with a 21 year old female photographer before I trusted a middle age man or any man at that

If your daughter were a successful professional model, you'd have a problem:  She'd be working with middle-aged men all the time.  Or perhaps she'd have a problem trying to do her job, seeing that dad doesn't trust her colleagues.

Stop projecting so much.

Chris Keeling wrote:

May I ask why?

this world is wicked and evil. Even if you know someone rather well you still don't know that person as well as you think. I guess my heart is just harden towards other people.

-IS wrote:
lame terms.. I would trust my daughter with a 21 year old female photographer before I trusted a middle age man or any man at that

That says a lot about you, but nothing at all about how a photographer should approach a shoot.

Richard Dubois wrote:

If your daughter were a successful professional model, you'd have a problem:  She'd be working with middle-aged men all the time.  Or perhaps she'd have a problem trying to do her job, seeing that dad doesn't trust her colleagues.

Stop projecting so much.

we are talking about a 16 year old not a pro model

ANE Photography wrote:
Ok, this post is going in the wrong direction. We are not trying to prove the point of whether or not middle aged men photographers should be trusted or not or whether they are pervs or not. This is not the issue.

Middle aged men who are being offended by this post: Whether or not you want to believe it, in a young female's mind, there is a difference between a young female photographer and an older male photographer. Whether or not that effects the model is up to that particular person. If the model is in a professional setting with professional things going on, NO, it shouldn't make a difference. But this is a conflict that we've seen throughout photography. Period.

Also my post was being taken in the wrong direction in the aspect that, i don't need to know how to act on a photo shoot. I am a professional. I know to be professional at all times. What I need to know is the legalities and how to cover myself JUST IN CASE when working with a minor and what things are in HER best interest starting out as an under 18 model.

sorry, didn't mean for that to happen..

-IS wrote:

just would, natural reaction I guess..

Would your natural reaction change if you stopped to realize that there are thousands of 21 year old females on this site that are participating in both nude and bondage photography on a regular basis?

There is a 20 year old female photographer in my small town that has done both of those things.


And absolutely none of those photographers whether they be male or female have ever molested or forced models into doing things they didn't want to do.  Your daughter is safe, no matter which gender the photographer is.

Emeritus wrote:

That says a lot about you, but nothing at all about how a photographer should approach a shoot.

As much as you want a photo shoot to be all business and professional, people have human error and emotions. While a photo shoot SHOULD go as you have been suggesting, history has shown us, that's not how it always will go.

I'm not debating whether or not these issues will come up, because I've seen them come up for other photographers. I'm asking what to do to cover myself WHEN they come up even after I've been completely professional in this setting.

wickedlove wrote:
Make sure you tell them the rules.
1. You will not pose them in sexual positions, or in no clothes, so you yourself won't get in trouble.
2. Make sure a parent is there.
3. Go with your gut.

+1

-IS wrote:

sorry, didn't mean for that to happen..

No problem. Get your opinion out there =]
You deserve to be heard.

ANE Photography wrote:

No problem. Get your opinion out there =]
You deserve to be heard.

thanks..

ANE Photography wrote:
Ok, this post is going in the wrong direction. We are not trying to prove the point of whether or not middle aged men photographers should be trusted or not or whether they are pervs or not. This is not the issue.

Middle aged men who are being offended by this post: Whether or not you want to believe it, in a young female's mind, there is a difference between a young female photographer and an older male photographer. Whether or not that effects the model is up to that particular person. If the model is in a professional setting with professional things going on, NO, it shouldn't make a difference. But this is a conflict that we've seen throughout photography. Period.

Also my post was being taken in the wrong direction in the aspect that, i don't need to know how to act on a photo shoot. I am a professional. I know to be professional at all times. What I need to know is the legalities and how to cover myself JUST IN CASE when working with a minor and what things are in HER best interest starting out as an under 18 model.

While I appreciate your desire to take a back slap at middle age photographers and not have to discuss it afterwards, we were only responding to what you wrote.  We can't read your mind and know that you really meant something different than what you wrote.   But now that you've stated you don't want to talk about it and want the thread to go in a different direction I will honor that and not discuss the issue you presented.

ANE Photography wrote:
Ok, this post is going in the wrong direction. We are not trying to prove the point of whether or not middle aged men photographers should be trusted or not or whether they are pervs or not. This is not the issue.

Middle aged men who are being offended by this post: Whether or not you want to believe it, in a young female's mind, there is a difference between a young female photographer and an older male photographer. Whether or not that effects the model is up to that particular person. If the model is in a professional setting with professional things going on, NO, it shouldn't make a difference. But this is a conflict that we've seen throughout photography. Period.

Also my post was being taken in the wrong direction in the aspect that, i don't need to know how to act on a photo shoot. I am a professional. I know to be professional at all times. What I need to know is the legalities and how to cover myself JUST IN CASE when working with a minor and what things are in HER best interest starting out as an under 18 model.

It would have been helpful if you asked about the legalities in your opening post.  As it is, it suggests that you believe under-18 models should be "handled" somehow differently from over-18 models.

Someone under 18 would require a parent or guardian to sign a legal document on their behalf.  Other than that, and seeing as you don't plan on shooting adult material, there are no other legal repercussions.

ANE Photography wrote:
Hello everyone =]
I am a new photographer in a town in the middle of nowhere. This town has little to offer model wise. I can't really travel right now because I'm still enrolled in college and don't have the time or money to travel.
Recently, two girls (they don't know each other) have been very interested in working with me BUT it turns out that they are both only 16. I have already worked with one. I had her and her parent sign a model release and we did nothing risque. This other girl I haven't worked with but on her myspace page has under "modeling" a bunch of barely clothed photos. Obviously this isn't the work I want to do with a 16 year old. However, they are both absolutely gorgeous girls and I would like to get them started early so they can get somewhere with it if they can. They also look much older than they are.
My question is, how do I handle these situations with minor models? It may help to tell you that I am a 21 year old female which may make a difference between me and a middle aged man doing their photos.
ANY advice you can give about this subject would be very helpful!
Thank you!

The part in bold suggests that the can of worms was opened by you.

-IS wrote:
we are talking about a 16 year old not a pro model

Most of the models I work with are under 18, and professional.  Even so, it doesn't matter - professional behaviour is expected for everyone.  You need to step away from the "age" thing a little.

ANE Photography wrote:
As much as you want a photo shoot to be all business and professional, people have human error and emotions. While a photo shoot SHOULD go as you have been suggesting, history has shown us, that's not how it always will go.

I'm not debating whether or not these issues will come up, because I've seen them come up for other photographers. I'm asking what to do to cover myself WHEN they come up even after I've been completely professional in this setting.

You are the adult and the photographer.  The shoot will go exactly as you want it to go if you do indeed take control of your own shoot.  Manage the shoot as you see fit, not by how a 16 year old wants you to.

If you do this and don't shoot anything that is not age appropriate, then you shouldn't have any troubles.

ANE Photography wrote:
Ok, this post is going in the wrong direction. We are not trying to prove the point of whether or not middle aged men photographers should be trusted or not or whether they are pervs or not. This is not the issue.

It is, however, a good example of how questions and perceptions must be worded carefully lest they cause the very thing they purport not to want to happen.

ANE Photography wrote:
Middle aged men who are being offended by this post: Whether or not you want to believe it, in a young female's mind, there is a difference between a young female photographer and an older male photographer.

And, given your newly stated meaning for your question below, how exactly does this change the legalities of shooting with a minor?  I am unaware of a difference, legally, between a minor shooting with a young female photographer and shooting with a middle aged man.  Perhaps you or others can let me know what I'm missing.

ANE Photography wrote:
Whether or not that effects the model is up to that particular person.

Yes, it is, which is why your broad generalization above is inappropriate.

ANE Photography wrote:
If the model is in a professional setting with professional things going on, NO, it shouldn't make a difference. But this is a conflict that we've seen throughout photography. Period.

Oddly, it's not a conflict I see a lot.  Perhaps the biases of the viewer are what causes this "conflict".

ANE Photography wrote:
Also my post was being taken in the wrong direction in the aspect that, i don't need to know how to act on a photo shoot. I am a professional. I know to be professional at all times. What I need to know is the legalities and how to cover myself JUST IN CASE when working with a minor and what things are in HER best interest starting out as an under 18 model.

Other than the fact that if she signs a model release it may be disaffirmed later, there really are no legal differences unless you are employing her at the shoot.  In that case, labor laws for minors may apply.

Mac Swift wrote:
Most of my headshot work is done with minors.  If I see a pretty face I like to photograph it regardless of its age.  No big deal, but you Americans are way over the top with the whole evil, pervert photographer thing.  Not all of us middle aged, male photographers are perverts, rapists and axe murderers.

The disparaging remarks above come from a denizen of a country where it is illegal to photograph or distribute photos of even the mildest bondage, spanking, implied S&M, etc. Admit it, eh.