This thread was locked on 2009-10-03 04:10:49
Forums > Off-Topic Discussion > Man arrested for painting & shooting 7 year old

Photographer

MirrorImage Photography

Posts: 430

Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, US

Oct 01 09 09:47 pm Link

Photographer

Admiral Frog

Posts: 29088

Roswell, Georgia, US

No, he was arrested for MOLESTING 7 year old

Oct 01 09 09:51 pm Link

Photographer

Conceptually Black

Posts: 8320

Columbus, Ohio, US

Frog516 wrote:
No, he was arrested for MOLESTING 7 year old

Hey you shhhh... go back to emailing my lady, you'll ruin a good chance for the escort chest beaters to prove why they rule!

Oct 01 09 09:53 pm Link

Photographer

Kings Media Photos

Posts: 1939

Victorville, California, US

MirrorImage Photography wrote:
http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20091001/APC0101/91001165/1004&located=rss

=/

Oct 01 09 09:53 pm Link

Photographer

Admiral Frog

Posts: 29088

Roswell, Georgia, US

Conceptually Black wrote:

Hey you shhhh... go back to emailing my lady, you'll ruin a good chance for the escort chest beaters to prove why they rule!

lol as you wish. That is way more fun anyway

Oct 01 09 09:55 pm Link

Photographer

Conceptually Black

Posts: 8320

Columbus, Ohio, US

Frog516 wrote:

lol as you wish. That is way more fun anyway

I know, she giggles and reads them to me. Hey, you talk to her, I get the physical part. I'm somehow oddly ok with that...

Oct 01 09 09:55 pm Link

Model

Phyxi

Posts: 1148

Columbus, Ohio, US

And where in the hell where the parents during this nude body painting session of their 7 year old? If I had kids I certainly wouldn't drop off my 7 year old to some guy and go shopping etc in the meantime.

Oct 01 09 09:56 pm Link

Photographer

Han Koehle

Posts: 4100

Saint Louis, Missouri, US

I've photographed nudes of models under 18.

I have NOT fingerpainted models under 18 in places only their bathing suit covers.

There's a SIGNIFICANT difference between photographing an underage model in a professional setting, with their parents present and all US and state laws obeyed, and getting naked and feeling up a bunch of kids under the guise of art.

Oct 01 09 09:57 pm Link

Model

Fifi

Posts: 58134

Gainesville, Florida, US

neutral

The title is really what you derived from this story? Really?

Oct 01 09 09:57 pm Link

Photographer

Admiral Frog

Posts: 29088

Roswell, Georgia, US

Conceptually Black wrote:

I know, she giggles and reads them to me. Hey, you talk to her, I get the physical part. I'm somehow oddly ok with that...

I am here to help

Oct 01 09 09:57 pm Link

Photographer

Kings Media Photos

Posts: 1939

Victorville, California, US

Miss Fifi wrote:
neutral

The title is really what you derived from this story? Really?

+1

Oct 01 09 09:59 pm Link

Photographer

Swank Photography

Posts: 19020

Key West, Florida, US

MirrorImage Photography wrote:
http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20091001/APC0101/91001165/1004&located=rss

He is a predator.

Oct 01 09 09:59 pm Link

Model

Big A-Larger Than Life

Posts: 33451

The Woodlands, Texas, US

Phyxi wrote:
And where in the hell where the parents during this nude body painting session of their 7 year old? If I had kids I certainly wouldn't drop off my 7 year old to some guy and go shopping etc in the meantime.

Exactly!  What the FUCK?!!!

Oct 01 09 10:00 pm Link

Model

Big A-Larger Than Life

Posts: 33451

The Woodlands, Texas, US

Miss Fifi wrote:
neutral

The title is really what you derived from this story? Really?

lol

Oct 01 09 10:00 pm Link

Photographer

Beach

Posts: 4062

Charleston, South Carolina, US

at least I got some posing advice from that article.

STAND ON ONE FOOT!

Oct 01 09 10:01 pm Link

Photographer

Han Koehle

Posts: 4100

Saint Louis, Missouri, US

I'm creeped out that the OP didn't read that article and get out of it "gee, it sure is wrong to molest children" and instead seems to be upset about the oppression against totally legitimate child-painting nudist photographers.

Oct 01 09 10:01 pm Link

Photographer

Mgaphoto

Posts: 4982

San Diego, California, US

oh man i thought this post meant some guy used a paint ball gun on a 7 year old sad both situations would not be good!

Oct 01 09 10:04 pm Link

Photographer

K Photographic Dreams

Posts: 1788

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Wow: unbelievable!!

Oct 01 09 10:05 pm Link

Photographer

Jeff Cohn

Posts: 3850

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US

um yeah, I normally read the stuff posted here and side with the photographer who got "caught"... but this guy was just a strait up pedophile with a camera. Glad he's arrested. No reason what so ever to post this on MM though, its got nothing to do with this business.

Oct 01 09 10:06 pm Link

Photographer

gzone

Posts: 963

Lancaster, California, US

Sick.

Oct 01 09 10:15 pm Link

Photographer

VisuallyOddPhotography

Posts: 11742

Morton, Illinois, US

Jeff Cohn::X-Pose.net:: wrote:
um yeah, I normally read the stuff posted here and side with the photographer who got "caught"... but this guy was just a strait up pedophile with a camera. Glad he's arrested. No reason what so ever to post this on MM though, its got nothing to do with this business.

i am not sure i agree with that statement totally....what we do not know is who this person was and if he was a part of this business.....if he was, it is wise to keep ourselves informed of the bad things that happen in our business so we can try to promote the good things in our business and try to keep a watchful eye as a community to prevent scum like that from practicing in our business....

Oct 01 09 10:16 pm Link

Model

Jessyka Ann

Posts: 10660

Hyannis, Massachusetts, US

just so you know OP...this says a lot...

"The girl said Mayberry told them “that only (Mayberry) could paint them on their privates or their butts.”"

Oct 01 09 11:51 pm Link

Photographer

Dizeman

Posts: 72

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Jenna Black wrote:
I've photographed nudes of models under 18.

I have NOT fingerpainted models under 18 in places only their bathing suit covers.

There's a SIGNIFICANT difference between photographing an underage model in a professional setting, with their parents present and all US and state laws obeyed, and getting naked and feeling up a bunch of kids under the guise of art.

Actually, there's no difference whatsoever in the eyes of federal and state law.

The United States Congress and the U.S. Department of Justice expanded child pornography laws to include the representation of, be it abstract or real, through any means, be it electronic or mechanical, any drawing, sketching,  painting, video, photography of a nude or suggestive image of anyone under the legal age of 18.

Any and all under the age of 18 are minor children in the eyes of the law. Federal law and each and every one of the 50 States of the Union consider nude photos and suggestive photos of anyone under the age of 18 a Class III Felony with sentences from 20 years to LIFE in prison.

Parents of minor children, defined as any and all under the age of 18 cannot authorize and have no right to authorize the creation, depiction or permission to do either of a minor child.

The minor child themselves have no right, nor legal authority to authorize or allow any such depiction or creation of nude images of themselves.

In fact, both the parents and the minor child can face felony charges of "Manufacturing and Distribution of Child Pornography" as well as "Conspiracy to Manufacture and Distribute Child Pornography."

It does not matter what YOU or I think or feel about what is and what is not child pornography ie; Kiddie Porn, it is clearly defined by federal and state law to be any representative image, be it real or abstract of any minor child, defined as anyone under the age of 18.

It's a felony... PERIOD! to photography anyone under the age of 18 in a sexually suggestive pose or any state of undress or nudity.

DATZ DA FACTS!

You or I may agree with that or not agree with that, but if you get caught photographing or photos you took ten years ago of a 17 year and 364 day, 23 hour and 59 minute, 59 second old model... you just committed felony child pornography and are subject to spending the majority of the life you have left in prison.


In the Las Vegas valley we have LVMPD, Henderson Police Department and Boulder City Police Department as well as North Las Vegas Police Department, each have their own Electronic Crimes Division which does nothing all day, all night, 365 days a year, but check out such violations, they even set up fake minor child accounts to entrap LEGALLY predators who prey on minor children, again...defined as anyone under the age of 18. It is not a flexible law. It is literal and not up for interpretation!

There is a ZERO TOLERENCE policy when it comes to child pornography and photographing any minor child, regardless of how beautiful they are, regardless of how sophisticated they may appear, regardless of how mature they act, they are still in the eyes of every law enforcement agency, the Department of Justice and every court in the nation, minor children protected under the Child Protection Act.

Shoot a 17 year-old model nude and I suggest you brace yourself! The only people who ever get caught are the ones who are CERTAIN they will never get caught. In fact... being certain you will never get caught is REQUIRED for you to do time in prison.

Those who feel there is a good chance they will get caught... just don't do it!

Are you certain the person you are shooting is 18? Are you okay with photographing a 17 year-old BABETTE?  Are you just as certain that 17 year-old is not a law enforcement DECOY/PLANT?

Hey! Have fun, be safe.... Stay legal!

JD

Oct 02 09 12:49 am Link

Photographer

Danger Ninja

Posts: 22238

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Dizeman wrote:

Actually, there's no diff

there's no way in fuck i'm reading all of that

anyway OP, thread automatically fails because you twisted what the story is actually about

Oct 02 09 12:56 am Link

Photographer

Dizeman

Posts: 72

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Danger Ninja Production wrote:

there's no way in fuck i'm reading all of that

anyway OP, thread automatically fails because you twisted what the story is actually about

I responded directlly to the comment that there is no difference between shooting minor children in a studio setting...

The comment I made is directly relevant.

Oct 02 09 12:58 am Link

Photographer

Cherrystone

Posts: 37171

Columbus, Ohio, US

Dizeman wrote:
Actually, there's no difference whatsoever in the eyes of federal and state law.

The United States Congress and the U.S. Department of Justice expanded child pornography laws to include the representation of, be it abstract or real, through any means, be it electronic or mechanical, any drawing, sketching,  painting, video, photography of a nude or suggestive image of anyone under the legal age of 18.

I snipped this on purpose......but anyone can read your post if they want. What you wrote is mostly rubbish.

Oct 02 09 12:58 am Link

Photographer

Dizeman

Posts: 72

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

It's the law!

There's no rubbish involved.

Oct 02 09 01:00 am Link

Photographer

Danger Ninja

Posts: 22238

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Dizeman wrote:

I responded directlly to the comment that there is no difference between shooting minor children in a studio setting...

The comment I made is directly relevant.

and you could've said it in about 2-3 sentences

if you honestly expect anyone to read all that nonsense, i don't know what to tell you

Oct 02 09 01:02 am Link

Photographer

Dizeman

Posts: 72

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Well, they say ignorance is bliss...

But here's the LAW!

Under federal law (18 U.S.C. §2256), child pornography1 is defined as any visual depiction, including any photograph, film, video, picture, or computer or computer-generated image or picture, whether made or produced by electronic, mechanical, or other means, of sexually explicit conduct, where 

the production of the visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; or


the visual depiction is a digital image, computer image, or computer-generated image that is, or is indistinguishable from, that of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; or


the visual depiction has been created, adapted, or modified to appear that an identifiable minor is engaging in sexually explicit conduct.   
Federal law (18 U.S.C. §1466A) also criminalizes knowingly producing, distributing, receiving, or possessing with intent to distribute, a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture or painting, that

depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct and is obscene, or


depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in graphic bestiality, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex and such depiction lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.
Sexually explicit conduct is defined under federal law (18 U.S.C. §2256) as actual or simulated sexual intercourse (including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex), bestiality, masturbation, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person.

Who Is a Minor?
For purposes of enforcing the federal law (18 U.S.C. §2256), “minor” is defined as a person under the age of 18.

Is Child Pornography a Crime?
Yes, it is a federal crime to knowingly possess, manufacture, distribute, or access with intent to view child pornography (18 U.S.C. §2252).  In addition, all 50 states and the District of Columbia have laws criminalizing the possession, manufacture, and distribution of child pornography.  As a result, a person who violates these laws may face federal and/or state charges.

Oct 02 09 01:05 am Link

Photographer

Cherrystone

Posts: 37171

Columbus, Ohio, US

Dizeman wrote:
It's the law!

There's no rubbish involved.

It is NOT the law as you stated.

Oct 02 09 01:06 am Link

Photographer

TRPn Pics

Posts: 10435

Silver Springs Shores, Florida, US

https://sidoxia.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/train-wreck.jpg

In progress

Oct 02 09 01:07 am Link

Photographer

Dizeman

Posts: 72

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

The federal US Code chapter listings are in the post.

It seems paragraphs of prose suggesting photographing a minor child nude was okay and did not upset you, but my posting the facts relative to the crime of photographing a minor child nude seems to have set you off.

That's odd and a bit well... scary!


Child pornography does not bother you, but posting the fact that it is illegal causes you grief?

I've posted references to the law.  That should be enough for mature and rational minds.

Oct 02 09 01:10 am Link

Photographer

Cherrystone

Posts: 37171

Columbus, Ohio, US

Jenna Black wrote:
I've photographed nudes of models under 18.

I have NOT fingerpainted models under 18 in places only their bathing suit covers.

There's a SIGNIFICANT difference between photographing an underage model in a professional setting, with their parents present and all US and state laws obeyed, and getting naked and feeling up a bunch of kids under the guise of art.

Dizeman wrote:
It's a felony... PERIOD! to photography anyone under the age of 18 in a sexually suggestive pose or any state of undress or nudity.

DATZ DA FACTS!

Datza wrong......

Oct 02 09 01:10 am Link

Photographer

Dizeman

Posts: 72

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

It's not wrong just because you want it to be wrong.

Congress has stated and written into law that even if the person depicted in the image is NOT a minor, but is representing themselves as a minor, they can be charged with making and distributing chlid pornography.

I suggest you spend some time learning the facts on the topic, instead of so heartily defending nude photography of minors.

I've been a commercial photographer for 30 years, it's my job to know the laws governing my craft.

There are probably a lot of laws you may not be familiar with, like in Las Vegas, actually Nevada Revised Statutes says a man with an erection, even if that erection is covered by clothing is in violation of state law and subject to a misdemeanor citation.

Who woulda thunk it? But it's true!


I suggest you do some research, then the MATURE thing to do would be to come back and apologize, but we know that's not going to happen.

Oct 02 09 01:15 am Link

Model

TanyaDal

Posts: 332

Dizeman wrote:
It's the law!

There's no rubbish involved.

well the law is flawed then

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d4/TrangBang.jpg

https://lifewithhammy.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/starvation.jpg

Oct 02 09 01:16 am Link

Photographer

Dizeman

Posts: 72

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Laws are often flawed. Not always fair. But the very Republic of the United States is defined as a NATION OF LAWS, not of MEN, err..... or women.

Not my ruling, I said several times, I may not agree with the laws.

But the laws I stated are factual.

Oct 02 09 01:19 am Link

Photographer

Dizeman

Posts: 72

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

I'm posting laws restricting the photographing of minor children nude and I am being hit with verbal pies for doing so?

I find that amazing!


Well that's 2009 Americana for you.

Oct 02 09 01:21 am Link

Model

TanyaDal

Posts: 332

Dizeman wrote:
I'm posting laws restricting the photographing of minor children nude and I am being hit with verbal pies for doing so?

I find that amazing!


Well that's 2009 Americana for you.

well the problem for me is I have kids who I did photograph in the bath naked when they were babies, same as alot of parents and we are now being told we are some kind of perverts, and it causes this kind of reaction

Oct 02 09 01:24 am Link

Photographer

Danger Ninja

Posts: 22238

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Dizeman wrote:
I've been a commercial photographer for 30 years, it's my job to know the laws governing my craft.

i've been one for 2 1/2 years and i know that you just posted a bunch of nonsense

Oct 02 09 01:30 am Link

Photographer

Cherrystone

Posts: 37171

Columbus, Ohio, US

Dizeman wrote:
I'm posting laws restricting the photographing of minor children nude and I am being hit with verbal pies for doing so?

I find that amazing!


Well that's 2009 Americana for you.

No your mixing apples and oranges. If you cannot read your own writing, I'm not going to waste my time.

Photographing minors in some state of undress or nude, and child pornography are two entirely seperate things. You just blended them into the same mixing bowl as many others do who are ignorant of what the law is saying.

Stick around long enough, someone will come into this thread and give you a proper legal education.

Oct 02 09 01:31 am Link