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Paid assignments only and escorte/chaperone
I've done a lot of shoot with boyfriends, mothers, friends etc present. Most of them have been OK, but some of them has been distracting due to the escorte. For models who list "Paid assignments only" and insist on bringing an escorte to the shoot, would you allow/risk it? Though most of my escorted shoots have been good I would have to demand that the model came alone to a paid shoot, just in case. What's your thought/experience? Jul 17 05 02:21 pm Link alot of models who are experianced bring an escort who will stay out of the way. and those are the models who make money... Models who are told not to bring one tend to flake. and you can always ask an escort to be x feet away... Jul 17 05 02:25 pm Link Oh no. Not ANOTHER "escort" thread ... (sigh) Jul 17 05 02:40 pm Link Oh Nooo!! Where is my Duct Tape? Jul 17 05 02:41 pm Link My rules; no escorts, boyfriends, uncles, moms etc. It ruins the mood of the shoot and I have enough people around with an assistant, MUA; and enough to think about. Jul 17 05 06:35 pm Link I generally don't bring an escort but I would never work with someone who outright said "no escorts". How would you like it if a model said you couldn't have an assistant? How does it "ruin the mood" if there are already a bunch of other people around? If you are working with a professional model she will have a "professional escort". Someone who knows to stay out of the way and be helpful rather than a distraction. And who cares if that happens to be the boyfriend? Unless you are trying to sleep with the woman it shouldn't be an issue. Jul 17 05 06:49 pm Link Just the idea of an escort freaks me out. I feel dirty just talking about it. If you need a chaperone or whatever you are most likely in one of these catagories: 1. You did not do your due deligence. Got to really CHECK the references. 2. You are not comfortable with the situation. If this is the case why are you putting yourself in it in the first place? 3. You are doing a new photographer with inadequate (not bad) references a favor. 4. Under 18 and in which case most photographers would insist on some type of advocate for the model. I also believe that it is possible that you have not discussed and become comfortable with the concept of the shoot before hand. Here is Ben's advice to new models... If you are over 18 and need a chaperone you need to rethink either the photographer you are shooting with or the type of modeling you are doing. (there are exceptions) If you wouldnât want your grandmother seeing itâ¦donât do it. Jul 17 05 06:49 pm Link Hold up...I forgot about the paid shoot thing... see my post in the photogs forum about paying models. Jul 17 05 06:52 pm Link Posted by bencook2: I do lots of things I wouldn't want my grandmother to see! Jul 17 05 07:27 pm Link Posted by BarryH: Posted by bencook2: I do lots of things I wouldn't want my grandmother to see! I was wondering who the first person to jump on that would be!!!! :-) U know what I mean. Jul 17 05 07:37 pm Link As far as escorts or body guards as some call them, I wouldn't work under those conditions. I'll give you the main reason..... Professional. If you have ever hired through a modeling agency, only the model shows up. Can you imagine if a model gets a shoot for Sear's, and shows up with her body guard. The next word out of the art director would be... "Next"! If an aspiring model doesn't check out as much as possible before hand, then that is called being lazy. Models shouldn't be shooting in someone's basement or meeting at an hotel. So if all of the models on here want to learn to be professional as they gain experience, no body guards. I've gone through it, and the model spends half the time looking for approval from the body guard, instead of concentrating on the photographer. This is the biggest waste of time. As for under 18, the law requires a parent or legal guardian which is absolutely necessary, to make sure the photo shoot is age appropriate, and under 18 you can't enter into an agreement. Anyone else notice how models tend to look away from the camera for approval from their friend/friends? Jul 17 05 07:45 pm Link yes...before you know it I'm looking over there for approval. Jul 17 05 08:02 pm Link Cosfrog, Sorry to be hijacking this thread and taking up all this precious space but you speak the gospel so I thought I would throw you an Amen brother. Jul 17 05 10:07 pm Link Posted by bencook2: Posted by BarryH: Posted by bencook2: I do lots of things I wouldn't want my grandmother to see! I was wondering who the first person to jump on that would be!!!! :-) U know what I mean. No, I'm an old model. Did some catalogue & art modeling about 20 years ago. It paid the rent, but I prefer this side of the lens. Jul 17 05 10:25 pm Link A model from Canada did a shoot with a guy in PA (I believe it was PA). She had worked with him in the past and his assistant, a female, was there during the shoot. They murdered her and hid the body and have since been convicted. In Calif, an agency sent a model to shoot with a known photographer for a shoot with a car, for a magazine editorial. He murdered her and has since been convicted of Murder. A model went to a hotel for a shot, She checked the guy out throughly and found him to be a well known and well respected legitimate photographer. Turned out an imposter had stolen his identity; the mposter forcibly raped her. Her screams caused hotel staff to break into the room and he was arrested and latr convicted. A model did a studio shoot with an established photographer with a crew to be present. Problem was no crew was actually there. While "waiting for the others to arrive", they had a soft drink. He druged and raped her. She was so upset she refused to report it to the police. My goal in a shoot is to produce the best possible images. If a model will feel more comfortable and relaxed with a friend present, that's wonderful. If she's more relaxed being alone, that's also wonderful. If she's nervous, tense, or uncomfortable in any way, that will show in the images we produce. I make it clear to models well in advance of the shoot that I have just two 'rules' for chaprone/escorts. First the escort has to be someone the model can pose in front of comfortably. Second, the chaperone can not be a distration to either the model or myself. If the chaperone proves to be distracting, I'll give one polite warning. If it happens a second time, the chaperone wil be asked to leave or the shoot is immediately ended. At the time the booking is scheduled, I explan this policy to the model and ask that if she plans on bringing a chperone, that she discuss this with the chaperone well in advance. As a result, I've never had a problem with chaperones. I've had far more problems with client reps and ADs being present than with chaperones. Certainly, a commercial shoot with a full crew present pretty much removes the need for a chaperone. In fact if an agency booked model showed up at a busy commercial studio with a 'chaperone', they would probably be laughed off of the set. But this is the internet and many if not most shoots involve an attractive lady and a guy she probably doesn't know. That's different! Jul 17 05 11:13 pm Link You know, I don't have a problem with them showing up. If the model looks to them too much, I let them know that they need to pay attention to the camera, not them. If they don't understand that, the shoots over, and they are paid for the time of services rendered. If they only make it 30 minutes out of a 4 hour shoot, so be it. The only problem I have is when the model wants me to pay for thier "escort/bodygaurd" to come along for the trip. I'm not the one hiring the escort, I'm hiring the model. They should be the one's paying whoever they have chosen to accompany them, not me. Jul 17 05 11:46 pm Link I don't have a problem with a model bringing along an escort. Only once have I had a problem with one and I terminated the shoot after about ten minutes. If it's a guy that comes, I let him roll up my bg's for me. ;-) Paul Jul 17 05 11:51 pm Link i strictly travel with my mua/assistant. i have hired a full time mua, who is present at all shoots, no exceptions. every photo i have ever taken (for portfolio work ~ if my agency sends me, that is another story, i go alone or with my agent) was in my assistants presence. i feel that if a photographer is uncomfortable with that (no matter how 'pro' he says he is) there is something to be worried about. i did a shoot without my assistant for portfolio work, and i regret it to this day, if you know what i mean. it turns out this 'pro' photographer (and his portfolio is stellar ~ vogue quality, published in MANY magazines) has been preying on new models such as me in my earlier days. no photoshoot is worth the possibility of something going wrong. this is why models like myself HIRE assistants. it is someone we trust who knows our style, knows what we want out of the shoot, stays out of our hair when we need it, and is involved when the photographer needs them. again, i know some photographers are hesitant to work with model's assistants ~ perhaps they have had bad experiences too.... but any photographer who fails to see that my safety comes first AT ALL TIMES is not worth working with! i hope the photographers here understand that too! and besides, if you have a witness at the shoot, mua/hair stylist of models choice, less chance of photographer being accused of something he didn't do! i think assistants are a benefit to all parties involved! ~j Jul 18 05 12:05 am Link Well I can understand the need of a model for a first time shoot with a photographer to feel comfortable. I can understand that part. But what I cannot understand is how the model expects ME to pay for his airline ticket and his hotel room. He gets to party on my dime and sleep with the model. So if that happens why do I need to shoot her. She has a free weekend in Dallas with her BF and I paid for it. No thanks. Check my references and if all of those are not good enough for you then you do not need to be shooting with me in the first place. bs Jul 18 05 02:08 am Link Posted by justyna_b: I totally agree that no shoot is worth something going wrong. Maybe I should have formulated my post a little better. The Internet and the real world is a little different as well. Jul 18 05 07:16 am Link I do screen out the photographers with poor portfolios and check references but you don't want to go to a shoot and lose your life or have something bad happen. Modeling isn't worth all that. Photographers need to realize this. It isn't an insult for them. It is a way a girl can protect herself which photographers should respect. I have been complimented several times on my escort who brings a game boy or a portable DVD player and stays out of the way. I don't shoot without an escort ever. 1st shoot, second shoot etc. In today's society you never know when someone will turn. Unfortunately, that restricts me to shooting in Texas since photographers unless I find one who will pay for me and my escort to travel. I am fine with that because I'd rather be safe than sorry. Jul 18 05 07:23 am Link Posted by Andre Knudsen: In my discussions with the model, I bring up the topic of an escort/assistant. My models are always welcome to bring one person with them. Some models will, some choose to come alone. It is their choice. Jul 18 05 07:34 am Link It's funny how most of the replies are from photographers and they all are saying the same thing. Everyone seems to be missing a very valid point in the whole "escort" concept. No matter how much you check up on a photographer and meet them in person first you really don't know them! Serial killers generally look like everyone else. Someone could have great references but who really knows. I'ld say 95% of the time I go alone to photoshoots but I bring a cell phone and someone always knows where I am, who I'm working with, and when I should be home. Also there are other reasons besides protection for bringing an escort. For this reason I prefer to use the term "personal assistant". If I'm driving 3 hours away to someplace I haven't been before than I generally like to have someone in the car with me to read the directions. That way I know I will be on time to the shoot. Also depending on the shoot I might end up bringing a bag full of clothes/props bigger than me. I have back problems and can't lift heavy stuff. If any photographer outright says you CANNOT bring an escort, I would not advise working with them. Thats very shady and they are obviously not professional enough to be able to handle a working environment. Jul 18 05 08:26 am Link The modeling industry...maybe I should put that in quotes...The "modeling industry" is no different than any other. There is risk in everything. Like I said before. With exceptions but for the most part if you feel you need an escort rethink either your career, the photographer you are shooting with or the type of modeling you are doing. Obviously, a portfolio is not a window into whether a photographer is a dick or not. Shooting for vogue does not make you a nice person. Checking references can not insure that you will be safe. But if you can travel in NYC without an escort you can certainly model without one. I am pretty sure that in terms of the worlds most dangerous professions modeling is toward the bottom of the list. Jul 18 05 08:29 am Link Once again, I don't think most of the photographers will have a problem with a model bringing someone, as long as it isn't a case where you need to get that individuals approval before a shot. So long as the model / "personal assistant" act professionally, to me, it doesn't matter. What I'm reading from most other photographers though is that they don't want to pay the escort as well. And we shouldn't have to. If it's the models wish to bring one, they should have to take care of it. Just like if I have a great MUA online for a shoot, and they want to bring thier own, fine. But THEY should have to pay for them. If I can swing an MUA for 35 a look (because we've worked together for awhile, and know how each other works), why should I pay for thiers at 75 a look? That's just handing over the wallet, and I already do that for my children. Jul 18 05 08:37 am Link sorry ben, i still don't agree with you. we are talking about photoshoot set up with photographers over the internet. any professional WORKING model would not bring her assistant if her agency sends her. i don't because i trust my agent and he sends me to work with reputable clients in large studios with very large crews. usually my agent or someone from the agency stops by to see how things are going too! BUT if i meet a photographer over the internet, i don't careabout his references, how good he is, etc. i care first and foremost about my safety, like Leila said, if a photog i met on the net tells me i can't bring my mua/stylist, there's no way in hell i'd ever work with him/her. that isn't being unprofessional on my part or unfit for the modelling world. it makes me concerned enough for my safety to hire an industry professional to work with me on all my shoots. ~j Jul 18 05 08:40 am Link Jul 18 05 08:41 am Link serial killers kill the escorts as well :-) Jul 18 05 08:44 am Link Posted by justyna_b: I think you have the right attitude. Jul 18 05 08:45 am Link thank you charlie! ~j (and i'm not one of those models that expects the photog to pay for my escort, i realize money doens't grow on trees~ hehehe) Jul 18 05 08:48 am Link From the policies and practices statement that I send to models before shoots: Escort Your escort, only one person, is welcome, but my expectation of all escorts is that they be totally unobtrusive, as in invisible and inaudible, unless their input or assistance is requested. I recommend against bringing your boyfriend, especially for glamour or nude shoots. I suggest that your escort bring a book and a walkman. Jul 18 05 08:58 am Link Actually, I've taken to requesting models to bring an escort with them. It keeps the "hesay/shesay" factor to a minimum. I'm still considering adding a line to my release where the escort signs off, attesting to my professional conduct during the shoot. Escorts also make great slave-labor. You'll usually find them at my shoots holding the heaviest thing involved in the work we're doing. Jul 18 05 10:30 am Link Posted by justyna_b: I actually agree with you more than you might think. I do not agree with having an absolute rule of no guests for internet connections. I don't believe in having an absolute rule in much of anything. But in my experience there has never been a model or photographer who was not cognizant of the other people on the set. I guess that I should have said that if you bring extra people into the equation, then the one on one between model and photographer suffers. Jul 18 05 11:32 am Link Posted by Eric Muss-Barnes: Prostitutes have body gaurds because they put themselves in dangerous situations, are we talking about modeling or prostitution? Jul 18 05 01:25 pm Link paid doesn't = safe I've heard stories form high fashion models who went on shoots alone. Jul 18 05 03:34 pm Link Posted by Mary: Posted by Eric Muss-Barnes: Prostitutes have body gaurds because they put themselves in dangerous situations, are we talking about modeling or prostitution? I think we should come up with a term for people who have no idea what they are talking about... Jul 18 05 03:39 pm Link Posted by Naomi Jay: Naomi Jay is right. The "Real" fashion world that so few of us participate in makes your average sicko GWC look like Mr. Rogers. A very good friend of mine who just graced the walls of Aber. and Fitch got attacked by what she thought was a gay make up artist. He turned out to be quite strong and quite hetero. But, she got away. But, her story illustrates my point exactly, she is the first to tell you that she put herself into that situation. All the escorts in the world will not help if you make bad decisions. Jul 18 05 03:54 pm Link Personally for me, I wouldn't risk traveling alone for the same reason that so many others here have related. Safety and witness. Safety in travel as well as at the shoot. And a witness at the shoot, so that it stays professional and no one can say something that didn't happen. In my mind that should help the photographer too, because he knows that I'm not going to pull some femme fatal act or accuse him of something that did not happen. (Better yet, if their assistant AND my assistant are there...) If a photographer cannot handle the fact that my "escort" attends all shoots with me then I don't need to model for them. But if we had met ahead of time (as I try to do) they would feel at ease with the situation. My husband (yes that's right the dreaded husband) has never gotten in the way of any of my shoots, I typically get so into the photoshoot that I am totally focussed on the camera/cameraman, not on hubby at all. I've never found him distracting during a shoot, nor has any photographer I've used. He's incredibly helpful with carrying in my bags, makeup etc. which saves me some energy for the shoot as well, and he's not above helping the photographer with whatever needs done (including rolling b.g.'s). From the photographer's prospective I can definely understand their discomfort with S.O.'s being at shoots because I have seen some models who don't know how to relax and get into the photos, or they worry what their SO is thinking or their SO gets unrealistically jealous or involved. To me if you or your escort cannot handle you posing for photography then you certainly shouldn't be doing it at all. There's no room for jealousy or insecurity in a photoshoot. Jul 18 05 06:58 pm Link Posted by Mary: Posted by Eric Muss-Barnes: Prostitutes have body gaurds because they put themselves in dangerous situations, are we talking about modeling or prostitution? Huh?????? Jul 18 05 07:00 pm Link Posted by Mary: Posted by Eric Muss-Barnes: Prostitutes have body gaurds because they put themselves in dangerous situations, are we talking about modeling or prostitution? Actully prostitutes don't have body gaurds, they're called pimps. And the pimps don't escort the hooker anywhere or hang around while they "work", they just take the money he/she makes. The president has body gaurds. The president has body gaurds. Maybe we should compare models to the president according to your logic. Jul 18 05 07:53 pm Link |
