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travel expenses
i really wish more photographers would consider reimbursing models their travel expenses. travelling gets really expensive after a while-it is also very tough at times-so i often will arrive at a shoot exhausted-the fact that i can still pull it off is great. if you request a shoot with a model and aren't paying her-cover the travel expenses. esp with tfcd-those computer discs cost about $2 each! also-it would be good if you provide a makeup artist when you ask the model. i know it's expensive at times-but consider all the expenses models have! Apr 22 05 03:53 pm Link Posted by pamela mars:those computer discs cost about $2 each! also-it would be good if you provide a makeup artist when you ask the model. i know it's expensive at times-but consider all the expenses models have! Mines are more like 25 cents. lol Apr 22 05 04:05 pm Link Posted by pamela mars: Yeah... I agree... it's expensive being a model. Photographers don't really have that much expenses, only about thousands of dollars in camera bodies and lenses, not to mention lighting gear, backgrounds, studio rental and insurance, .......etc. Apr 22 05 04:24 pm Link Posted by pamela mars: It's up to you to consider the value of photos from a given photographer and the value of the experience of working with that photographer. The decision to reimburse for travel expenses is a case by case thing that you should try to negotiate before the shoot. Apr 22 05 05:10 pm Link Hmmm... your doing something wrong honey because I never have to pay for anything... Apr 22 05 05:26 pm Link I am new to this entire areana but here is my take. When I contact you and ask to take your picture, TFCD, I have no issues covering your gas and I normally pay for meals while we are working. If you contact me and ask me to work TFCD then your on your own getting to and from the shoot but I will still normally cover the meals of the day, just how I am. I have yet to work with a makeup artist but I would handle it exactly the same way, if I want you, I pay, if you want me, you pay. Models have nothing to spend money on... ...only makeup, tanning, gym, gas, nails, hair, etc...aka hundreds or more a month to stay beautiful for the ones I know. Photographers have nothing to spend money on... ...only a multi-thousand dollar camera(s), thousands in lenses, thousands in lighting and studio gear, a few more thousand in computer gear. Basic breakdown - I am no better than you are with my "l33t" camera "skillz". You are no better than me just cause your hot and can convince a camera of it. We are a team while we shoot and both bring completly different talents to the table. If I was sexy I wouldn't need you and if you could take your own picture you wouldn't need me. Hopefully that makes total sense to someone. Small Print: There is no "attitude" in my response I promise, I just use sarcasm and brutal honesty in my typing which doesn't always translate well. Apr 22 05 05:44 pm Link Posted by pamela mars: I would suggest to you, and any other model, that you start looking a little more at the photographers you are choosing to do a tfcd with. The thing that bothers me the most is seeing some model shoot with a lame ass photographer and then come to me asking for a job. I will basically laugh at the girl who does this and move on to someone I know and have worked with or find someone else. If you form relationships with quality photographers and people in general you will get better images, jobs, and not have to pay for these things you are concerned about. Apr 22 05 05:48 pm Link yea-but all of you forgot the average length of a model's career is a lot shorter than a photographer's. then to stay in the industry-she might spend tens of thousands of dollars on plastic surgery. also-those hundreds of dollars spent/month add up to thousands/year! how often do photographers have to buy their equipment? Apr 22 05 08:07 pm Link Posted by pamela mars: How often? Are you serious? Digital imaging is changing every month and with it comes costs, such as storage that you need to backup all of the digital images. This doesn't include cameras, lighting, lenses, etc... that go bad, break, or are stolen. Add on top of this the travel costs of a photographer as well, maybe the cost of a studio, rental equipment, and how about our time just retoucing images? That alone is a lot and unfortunately many models don't get it thinking it isn't a big thing. Well I just got back from a photo seminar and listened to one of the biggest advertising photographers in New York talk about how he pays his PhotoShop guy $800 and hour for his time! This isn't for an hour either, he spends roughly 6-8 per image he said because they want things to look perfect. Here it isn't going to be that extreme but it still takes time to edit image after image so they look good. Apr 22 05 08:17 pm Link since that guy is the biggest ad photographer in new york-he can afford to pay someone to do his retouching. i'm not even gona ask how much money he makes on each image he sells-or whatever. a lota stuff gets stolen from models too. also-you don't necessarily need a studio to shoot. Apr 22 05 08:28 pm Link I agree with taking the models side. Photogs forget how much models have to spend to upkeep themselves, nails, hair, makeup, clothes, travel expenses. It cost a lot. I think its only fair to cover travel expenses ESPECIALLY if its just a tfp shoot. A cd cost near to nothing. And honestly, most photographers will say that they paid for the camera, lighting, etc. but thats usually only a one time fee. You buy your cam and thats it. Models have to continuously buy makeup and hair supplies along with new clothing, accessories and stuff for their nails. Apr 22 05 08:31 pm Link Both sides have valid costs. Photographers don't just buy their equipment. I spend, on average, a day doing pre-planning and shooting, and then at least two more days processing a shoot. Models spend money on makeup and clothing, and spend their time getting ready for a shoot, coming and going. Sure looks like an equal division of labor, if both parties are experienced. Apr 22 05 08:59 pm Link Posted by pamela mars: Okay well first, he is just one of the biggest advertising photographers Apr 22 05 09:18 pm Link TWICE I got burned prepaying a model for the cost of her ticket out here..this is actually a slightly different topic, that of paying in advance for a shoot, but nonetheless I will help reimburse a model's traveling expenses depending on any number of conditions, but I'll never give money before you actually walk through my door! Apr 23 05 11:36 am Link Just reading about model's expenses and I'm sorry but your hair, makeup, nail costs do not come close to equipment costs! And as for the clothes and the shoes and gym - you were probably going to spend that money, or at least a big portion of it, on that stuff anyway! Apr 23 05 11:39 am Link As I've said before, there are a lot of people on bpth sides of the camera that are completely clueless about what the other side puts into a shoot. We all have expenses. If your modeling fees aren't making up your travel expences, you should travel less. I don't really get this mind-set of models who expect top be flown out to Timbuktu and photographers who expect to fly models out to Timbuktu. It's a lot more practical to shoot with people local to you. Apr 23 05 11:35 pm Link Posted by pamela mars: I think you have tunnel vision and are seriously missing the point. As I said, everyone gets to choose. Based on what I've seen, heard, and read, I'm glad that I'm only in this game for fun and artistic gratification, that my bread and butter comes from another type of photography, and that I can afford to say "no" to any model for any shoot. Apr 24 05 01:08 am Link Travel expense costs , if they are going to be absorbed, should be by the sponsor/client. Basically the person paying the photographer and the model. Normally, when negotiating a contract, I include model fees, craft service/catering fees, staff fees (grips, lights, makeup, hair, manual labor grunts, etc.). It's all aprt of the fixed costs of the shoot. If the model insists on being paid more for a gig because of gas money, well, I can respect that. I can also respectfully thank that model for her time and consideration, and find myself another model. Apr 24 05 02:20 am Link Depends on how serious you are with your career. If you find a good photographer that will give you the right photos..Invest in your career. Travel and save those darn receipts. You can write most expenses off. So save receipts. All shoots you pay for keep receipts, hair,makeup, travel all that. I did that and I now get a refund..CHING CHING!! Apr 24 05 02:23 am Link If you take youre career seriously then you wouldnt mind investing money,I have and I just started and yes photographers spend alot of money as well,But models have to spend money on the bus,gas,plane..etc,then you have cabs/busses/food/hotel/then on top of that she/he has to pay for the prints that gets very costly as well.Ok hair u can do youreself,makeup same,nails...lol under 10$ if you do them youre self...I think the most amount of money a model spends is CLOTHING AND ACCSORIES!!!! Thats where we get the big bang..lol I have spent soo much money and the thing is you can only wear it once..lol So I think photographers should pay for the models travel expenses..but if the photographer is AMAZING then the model should!! I have travelled numerous times for a TFPCD and It was well worth the 400$ I spent..lol I also agree if they both are experieced or the model contacts the photographer then its on the model Apr 24 05 02:33 am Link depends. where you are travelling and on a few other things too. also... are u being hired by the fotog? then yes sure. but by no means does that free you up to take on work with others unless the person paying for your flight says it's ok. if some client paid you to fly somewhere to work for them, you dont go and try and work for another client/competitor. always seemed like bad business to me. Apr 30 05 10:19 am Link I must be of a different mind set, for I work with models mostly when it's a paying gig for me in that I am usually shooting ad work or editorial work...so those expensies are always buget into the shoot. And for my stock work when I am using models, it's the same as I am shooting for a client....those are expenses that should always be done professionally. I think most of you have to remember some of the photographers that are booking you, are shooting for no client other than for theirselves or for the models. So they first of all are asking for payment of just shooting you, if you are the client and if it's the shooter, they need to dig deep into their pockets as to do I really have the buget to shoot this model for me and there is no market for those images I am shooting. I do feel for you models in that since, just ask ever question under the sun when working with these photographers...Who? Apr 30 05 10:26 am Link Considering that I do all the retro hairstyles and make-up for my TFCD situations ... I do not pay anything in exchange. Hair sometimes takes me hours to complete and try finding a salon that won't charge you over $150 for a style like mine or even try to find a salon that can do my styles.. I also buy all my vintage clothes for my shoots and almost all of my models are wearing them.. they cost alot too. So not paying for some tolls and $20 of gas doesn't really make me feel all that bad.. and you models always think it's just moving images onto a CD. I Wish! I can spend hours on just one image perfecting it for a final image. I work with girls that understand that arrangement and the ones that do this solely for money are not usually looking to do pin-up work anyways. Posted by pamela mars: Apr 30 05 10:50 am Link |
