Tony Lawrence wrote:

Rick, I'm sure I missed it but do you pay your models just the $25.00
when they sign the release or is it also a hourly amount or
a flat rate.   Please excuse me if you've written it already.

I go on industry rates.

The top models I hire I pay $150 for an hour and a half.

Local models $100.

Newbies who I think might work for my project $50.

TFP I decide after the shoot if I want the images or not. If I do I offer them $25

I also hire hair stylists when I need them at $50 to $75 per shoot.

I'm putting a book together so I want to have all the models happy and on board so when it comes out they will be jazzed enough to help push it.

Gabrielle Heather wrote:
Rick..................  can I just have your 25 bucks ?

You have to model for me.

I'll pay you $150.

The Original Sin  wrote:
Bunch of answers to questions all at once, and another dose of Sin logic*:

Brennan- March, but the dates may be closer by a week if I end up flying to Miami on Monday.  Cross fingers and pray- Miami on Monday would mean I can be home with the boys for Spring Break.

Art of the Nude- Hair, MakeUp, Styling.  I provided some of the clothes, but the majority of the styling was ALL in the hands of the photographer and MUA.  They rocked, and I can't remember the MUAs name or she would be credited.  Have to get her info, thanks for the reminder.  FTR- SHE got paid.  She deserved it.  They dressed me up and down, did things I didn't think possible, and taught me SO much about what I can do with myself.  The photographer (Mickle) is fantastic, and I fully intend on paying him at some point to do a certain hotel shoot for me- just have to allocate the funds.

Rick Fink- If you want a critique of your work and profile, please, post in critique or PM me (damn those casting calls, I'm all out!) and I'll be HAPPY to give you one.  Askin for one in this thread won't get you anywhere, as it counts as unsolicited UNLESS you are in Critique and can cause more drama.

------------------

This thread has dissolved into insults, funny pictures and threadjacking because of one thing- people disagreeing about business practices.

Personally, I think that it's a simple matter- everyone should work in the ways that best suit their needs.  If Rick believes he should pay- at least a token amount- to get a shoot with a signed release, he SHOULD.  However, if Stephen and Greg don't feel the need to compensate a model for her release or shooting time, they SHOULD NOT (as an aside- Markman, I have actually seen what you spend feeding, hosting and entertaining models who you have come to shoot.  As far as I'm concerned, you DO compensate them, because I feel guilty for accepting your hosting when there are hundreds of more amazing people you could be shooting every time I'm there).

I personally feel that unless I KNOW I am getting great portfolio images or other value (I do trade for travel, wardrobe, amazing shoes), it's better for my shoots to be paid.  That's not really bragin- I was an anomaly from the get-go, in that I started in a field where I was paid, and paid well, from my first shoots onward.  I know that is not usual, and I am blessed and grateful for the oppurtunities I've had.

I also feel that if a model finds more value in trade work than I do, she should TF* with the best possible TF* choices and work her way up the ladder.  Ditto for photographers.  Not everyone starts out a Star, or an Iona Lynn.  Yes, there are the occasional dreamgirls and boys that come out of the gate and just EXPLODE into the field, but for most of us- there's a huge learning curve and conditioning period.

The best thing anyone can do is practice their professional and diplomatic skills, every day, in every transaction.  I'm blunt and bitchy on occasion, but I'm honest and upfront.  I don't sugarcoat my opinions- but I don't run around pontificating to everyone about them either.  IME, all that does is breed angst, resentment and drama.

And drama is for llamas.

*Note, YMMV, and everyone's experience is different.

I did not ask for a critique.

Gabrielle Heather wrote:

I have done more than my share of trade. I really only ask for compensation from a photographer whose skills I do not think will benefit my portfolio anymore. I am about creating art, but now I am able to desire a certain level of work in my portfolio.

I suppose you are right, and that asking for money on a TRADE, would be silly, but there are other forms of trade. You had a bit of an elitest attitude there in some of the words you chose.

From the response I originally commented on, it sounded like the photographer was being expected to pay for a trade shoot. Which makes no sense to me. You can call me elitist all you want, I don't care really. It has no baring on what I believe. It's just I have had my own experiences all the same that have solidified my opinions. I have paid models and it has been the best money spent on a shoot. I have also paid people and it ended up being the biggest waste ever.

I pay if I believe it will benefit me. I don't if it won't.

But my original comment wasn't directed towards you.

rp_photo wrote:

My preferred method is going east as in slow, informal, and low cash cost. Paying models does not fit into that plan.

Agreed. I was just pointing out that even though one way is easier than another, that doesn't necessarily mean it's the better solution.

Kymberly Jane wrote:

apparently your allowed to insult me.. that IS allowed in this forum .

wow.. moderators .. just WOW.

Rather than spending time contacting mods to inform them of your inability to understand an analogy, dedicate that time to sites like thesaurus.com and dictionary.com so you can better understand what the majority of others in the thread took from Stephen's post.

It's ok that you didn't get it. But to keep blathering on, insulting the forums, threatening mod action, simply because you didn't grasp the analogy is, what's the word? You tell me after visiting thesaurus.com.

Keir M wrote:
Any smart model should have her own contract written up stating that she authorizes the use of photos WITH her approval. Also  she should state that if the photog makes money off the pic in the future she gets a %.. That makes it a fair trade and legit photogs I've worked with have had 0 problem with this.

Yeah....


right...

Keir M wrote:
Any smart model should have her own contract written up stating that she authorizes the use of photos WITH her approval. Also  she should state that if the photog makes money off the pic in the future she gets a %.. That makes it a fair trade and legit photogs I've worked with have had 0 problem with this.

That is a great idea.

It will ensure that "smart" models become unemployed models.

Rick Fink wrote:
I really think that photogs should generally pay models for shoots!

I try to get paid work for a lot of the models I work with but keep running into the fact that many experienced photogs want to do trades or get paid themselves!

My feeling is that the model and I co-create the images but since I ask her to sign a release form she should get paid.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because I see talented models and photogs butting heads over should a nude shoot be paid or trade.

Then there's the implication that any photog worth his salt won't pay models and only the GWC's pay.

Even if it's a totally trade shoot I'll offer the model $25 for her signature on the release form.

Hmm well i'm not gonna read all 14 pages here but my .02 is that a trade is a trade, no kit fees no fees for signing anything, everyone donates their time and skill.  You make it sound like a photographer wanting to get paid is a bad thing.  Go nuts and pay everyone, but to expect every other photographer to follow your lead is nuts.