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Pay your models!
I really think that photogs should generally pay models for shoots! I try to get paid work for a lot of the models I work with but keep running into the fact that many experienced photogs want to do trades or get paid themselves! My feeling is that the model and I co-create the images but since I ask her to sign a release form she should get paid. The reason I'm bringing this up is because I see talented models and photogs butting heads over should a nude shoot be paid or trade. Then there's the implication that any photog worth his salt won't pay models and only the GWC's pay. Even if it's a totally trade shoot I'll offer the model $25 for her signature on the release form. Mar 01 11 07:56 am Link The point of a trade shoot is to trade. For her time she is getting useable photos for her port. If The model does not feel the photographers work is good enough then the model should charge. No one is forcing models to work TF*. Mar 01 11 08:00 am Link Rick Fink wrote: That's great and all, but everyone's ways of doing things are different, and each individual has the right to throw their policies out the window if the right opportunity arises. Mar 01 11 08:02 am Link Rachel Jay wrote: what she said Mar 01 11 08:04 am Link If a model was pro and would benefit me...ofcourse i would. But why would i pay for every "model".. when we need each other to benefit? do you not think photographers which would just benefit a models portfolio are worth paying for?? Mar 01 11 08:06 am Link Why is a model's time worth more than a photographer's? If the trade is in both parties interest, it's a wash. If the model is receiving x number of images, that's her pay for the shoot. I know many models won't do nudes TF, and I have a little more sympathy with that line of reasoning. Mar 01 11 08:09 am Link I think this thread would have been a lot more entertaining if it was made in the photography forum. Mar 01 11 08:14 am Link Rick Fink wrote: OK, you are obviously into this strictly as a hobby, because you completely skip the fact that many photographers have expenses themselves, or need to make a living at this. The reason many photographers exist is to make a living. Sure, some want to create "art" and whatnot, and thats all fine and dandy, and they can pay all the models they want. Others of us don't pick up a camera unless someone is paying is to do so. Does that mean we've lost the passion for our craft? Of course not. It simply means that shooting pictures of pretty girls isn't a novelty to us, and we want to be paid for our skills and experience. Mar 01 11 08:14 am Link Rick Fink wrote: I really think that models should generally pay photographers for shoots! Mar 01 11 08:15 am Link "Different Strokes for Different Folks" "MYOB" "If It Works, It Works" "Don't Fix It If It Ain't Broke" And other such quotations apply. While I don't doubt your good intentions, there is nothing that makes models universally eligible for cash payment. Moreover, some TF* arrangements represent a higher net pay than the model might otherwise receive in cash. Then, too, there is the beginning model for whom the experience and pictures gained are worth more than she might receive in cash, if, indeed, anyone would hire her at all on the basis of a few cell phone pictures. And how about the hobbyist models who would rather be able to call the shots rather than be bound by a code of ethics for professional models. Or to put it another way, "There's More Than One Way To Skin A Cat!" All IMHO, as always. Mar 01 11 08:16 am Link Rick Fink wrote: reality Mar 01 11 08:20 am Link I think photographers need money to survive too. Mar 01 11 08:20 am Link Rick Fink wrote: If you need a PRO you should pay. If you want to 'play' at it, well, wtvr. this applies to models AND photographers. Mar 01 11 08:21 am Link If both parties benefit from a trade shoot, then everyone is winning and being "paid" with something useful for their portfolio. If one person is going to benefit more than the other, than the person that benefits most should pay. You're entitled to your opinions, but the laws of supply and demand will dictate what happens in the real world. Mar 01 11 08:22 am Link So you are saying photos from excellent photographers has no value? He/she should pay to have the honor of improving the model's port? Would love to see someone like Star or Kesler chime in with their thoughts. Or Johnny Crosslin http://www.johnnycrosslin.com/rates.htm http://www.johnnycrosslin.com/models/themodelpages.htm Mar 01 11 08:29 am Link both sides have their expenses, even on a trade shoot. to me trade is about people investing in the shoots to help each other get better. i think of it like research and development. i can experiment in ways i can't on a paying customer shoot. maybe at some point i'll feel like i don't have anything left to learn (doubtful with photography) and will want models to pay me. i have paid models before and i have one coming on friday for a groupshoot where she will get paid all the money from the photographer signups. but mostly i'm doing trade these days. if i were wealthy and shooting nudes for fun then i could see paying all the models. alas, i'm not wealthy. Mar 01 11 08:36 am Link What this really boils down to is just a 'white knight' post. I vote that this should be locked as soon as possible to avoid the trainwreck. Mar 01 11 08:36 am Link SouthFLpix wrote: Don't worry, I'm sure the photographers who "don't pay models" will have no trouble finding it. Mar 01 11 08:38 am Link My feeling is that since one person gets ownership of the images the other should get paid! Photogs- imagine a super talented model asked you for a trade shoot but then stipulated that she would own the images! Mar 01 11 08:39 am Link as i understand it (not being a lawyer), while i have copyright i don't have control over commercial use of their likeness without them signing something giving me that control (and this varies by country and even i think a bit by state). so your idea of paying $25 for a release (assuming it's a full one) does have some merit. Rick Fink wrote: Mar 01 11 08:43 am Link Rick Fink wrote: I think you should definitely keep paying every model. Mar 01 11 08:46 am Link MisterC wrote: This !!!!!! Mar 01 11 08:48 am Link Not against barter. That is how is used to be done all the time. You shot some stuff for her and she modeled some stuff for you. You then went your separate ways using what you got to promote yourself for paying clients. However, I prefer to hire models to do the modeling I want and get a release. I get better work from the model and the is no misunderstanding about what is going on. Most of the models on MM are doing it for the money since there is so little actual modeling work out there compared to the number of models seeking work. So, lets give them some work. If we shoot some stuff that they particularly want then the photographers fee can offset the modeling fee. Mar 01 11 08:49 am Link Rick Fink wrote: I agree with this, for the most part. It would certainly benefit me greatly, thats for sure! But unfortunately that is not the case with most people and I don't see it changing anytime soon. Mar 01 11 08:49 am Link no. Mar 01 11 08:52 am Link I don't expect a model to pay me for her portfolio work. I do not generally pay models for my portfolio work that is the funciton of TF shoots. I don't pay models, my client pays for the work and, in effect, the client pays the models by paying me. It all has to do with where the money is coming from. I saw an interesting segment on Sunday Morning this weekend. It was a retrospective on Herb Ritts. In it, Cindy Crawford was reminicing on a time when Ritts called her and asked her "What are you doing tomorrow morning, I need you to be a prop in a shoot for a musician" She accepted immediately because it was Ritts calling. Everyone does TFP if it benefits them. Mar 01 11 08:53 am Link SouthFLpix wrote: Or the critique forum. Mar 01 11 08:53 am Link I can only speak from personal firsthand experience, but I am wary of paying models for TF* gigs. Mostly it's from the lack of preparation done on the model's part. Several individuals I have encountered simply want me to furnish everything and then want compensation on top of that. Even those who contact me first. Odds are that I'll be spending more time and money on the shoot than she will. This is a bit of an off topic suggestion, but to the models I say spend some time networking in your area. Find good MUAs and hairstylist, and talk to various venues about being a shooting location. Having these in your back pocket will help make TF* gigs a team effort. I treat this as a business, and I spend time networking and getting venues and crew in my back pocket, why wouldn't a model who wants to be in the business of modeling? Again, this is just from my firsthand experience so I may be jaded in my views. Mar 01 11 08:56 am Link I must say after working with over 500 models.. it all depends on what the purpose of the shoot is.. If it's simply to help your portfolio and theirs then trade if you can. If the model or photog is getting paid, then the person being paid should pay something to the other party, model or photog. If it's a shoot on speculation, then whoever can sell the pics should offer something to the other party. Currently, I have a casting call posted.. I have had a few models think that I should pay them to help improve their portfolio.. I think not. David Mar 01 11 08:58 am Link Mar 01 11 08:58 am Link Rick Fink wrote: I'm just guessing, but have you set yourself up as a model manager? In that case, you're just looking for a little percentage, am I right? Please tell me I'm wrong, that would make me feel much better. Mar 01 11 08:58 am Link Biggs Photography wrote: +1 Mar 01 11 09:02 am Link whats weird is that even though the OP comment seems "white knighty" what makes it more obvious is that this post is in the MODEL forum not the PHOTOGRAPHY where his comment should be aimed if he is going to aim it somewhere. Its almost as if the op comment is looking for model "white knight, your amazing" replies. Mar 01 11 09:03 am Link If I make money=the model makes money!!! Everything else is TF* We all get paid somehow!! Just my 2 cents!!! Mar 01 11 09:08 am Link Rick Fink wrote: ForeverFotos wrote: I was beginning to think I'm the only one who noticed this part. Mar 01 11 09:13 am Link DG Photography Services wrote: You do realize that's a complete contradiction, don't you? Mar 01 11 09:13 am Link Heather Honey wrote: Exactly. Mar 01 11 09:14 am Link Rick Fink wrote: Out of the kindness of your heart? Isn't that wonderful of you! Not like you're a model manager or anything, yes? Mar 01 11 09:18 am Link I am absolutely not a manager for anyone! The thread came up because a talented model I have worked with and paid each time was having trouble getting paid for a nude shoot! Most photogs tell the models that they need to beef up their portfolios before they find paying work and then the paying work is not there! If I contact a model and ask her to work with me I pay her. Mar 01 11 09:21 am Link Rick Fink wrote: That's not an implication, that's fact. They can pay me if they want. Mar 01 11 09:22 am Link |
