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Policy for models who flake on you?
Should they get a second chance? If a model flakes will you tell your fellow photographer buddies? Can you list the model on your MM account? Feb 07 12 06:40 pm Link It entirely depends on how they flake & how much notice I get. To say nothing about if I just plain feel like being nice. Feb 07 12 06:42 pm Link ooh. Don't be like that on your account. It's quite frowned upon on this site. Plus, it could scare off potential models. Flaking is a problem on here, along with photographers not giving pics. When everyone is working for free, this is what happens. What galls me is the fact that models who flake on a paid gig. Huh? Try to schedule a couple of models (maybe 3) for an afternoon/morning. One will probably show up. Otherwise, make sure you can practice other skills, like landscape photography. Feb 07 12 06:44 pm Link Farenell Photography wrote: So if they call before flaking, to warn you, then you are more apt to give them a second chance? Feb 07 12 06:44 pm Link Sweet Annie Marie wrote: Good idea. So basically I cant warn others of the flaky models - at least not here on MM right? Feb 07 12 06:45 pm Link If they no call/no show/not answering my text or call, I just block and move on. Feb 07 12 06:50 pm Link Hmmm, so what's the definition of "flake"? No matter how dependable you are and no matter how conscientious you are about showing up, emergencies and unforseeen circumstances do occur. In the event a model calls me before I have invested time or money in that particular shoot on that particular day with that particular model, I don't consider it a flake, at least not on a first occurrence. Feb 07 12 06:50 pm Link Well, usually it's word of mouth in the locality after you shoot for a while. I get warnings about photographers who don't give images/take pics while you change now. Is there a facebook private group in your area? There's one in San Antonio that I am part of. It takes time to determine who will flake. I have never had a photog not show up, though. 90% of life is showing up. I'm not the youngest model or the skinniest, but I show up. Give credit to the ones who do and tag them as professional on their profiles. Always better to focus on the good ones. Silence is telling.... Feb 07 12 06:50 pm Link I have had models flake and cancel at the last minute. This has happened to me on TFP and paid shoots. I still sign on read forums and see who is new on the site. I haven't contacted a model about a shoot for months. I don't see much point to it. I can always used friends for a shoot. It seems that if a shoot doesn't work the first time it won't work at all. The models that cancel the day of a shoot, and say they want to reschedule. In my case they never contact you about a resechedule. You may have better luck using friends and family to build your portfolio. Feb 07 12 06:51 pm Link Sweet Annie Marie wrote: I'll look into it. Feb 07 12 07:09 pm Link If a model cancels with courtesy (notice, honest about why etc - I had a few say a paid opportunity came up not just the bs grand ma sick thing) then sure i'd give it another go. What makes or break it, is whether the model actively follows up to reshedule. No action means not interested as well as not reliable. Feb 07 12 07:30 pm Link I rent out a billboard in the city to make sure everyone knows. Feb 07 12 08:05 pm Link If someone cancels that doesn't make them a flake. If they don't show or call you 30 minutes before with a random excuse or sound hung over, chances are I won't talk to them about a shoot again. Feb 07 12 08:57 pm Link Avoid the drama of posting on MM Just say Next.. Feb 07 12 09:05 pm Link Just move to the next model. You're confusing cancellations with flaking. There's not one in the same. If someone calls or write in advance informing they can't make it, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. If they no call, no show, I'm stop all communications immediately. BTW, MM has a no outing rule. The only thing they'll is not recommended (Insert number here), PM for details. Anything beyond that is outing. However, if that's about as long as who's in Nascar's Hall of Fame, it doesn't more harm to the person doing the posting than the people posted. Feb 07 12 09:12 pm Link Photography InFocus wrote: It depends. Feb 07 12 10:53 pm Link Photography InFocus wrote: No second chances, no email to ask what happened. If another photographer asks, I'll just say they flaked. No need to blacklist, just move on. Feb 07 12 10:58 pm Link I block them. Not because I'm angry. More in case I forget and try to set something up later. Feb 07 12 11:00 pm Link Depends. If a model cancels on the day of the shoot, then recently, I've not been arranging second slots. If the model is genuinely interested they will quickly try to set up a second shoot, then I might agree to that. If the model gives me 24 hours or more notice, I consider that a normal cancellation, however they only get to do it once. No shows are dead to me! I'm more shell-shocked when a model "forgets" about the shoot and then wants to set up a second slot. I wouldn't waste a persons time and don't expect my time to be wasted. Paid clients are less likely to cancel last minute. If a TF shoot is cancelled more than once or becomes a now show, the model is thenn offered my rates, normally gets rid of them. Have a clear policy on what you consider as a "flake", the word is banded about here willy nilly, I prefer to use it to describe a rather nice peace of chocolate in a yellow wrapper!!! Feb 08 12 12:51 am Link I always offer a reshoot and invite them to let me know when they're free - if they respond to that they usually say yes, sorry: the cat/grandmother/pope died or they forgot to pay the bills and had no phone/internet or whatever and they'll let me know: more than 90% of those never get back to me. Feb 08 12 01:12 am Link IMO, there's a gray area between flakery and cancellation. It all depends on context and how much time and resources the model caused me to waste. If she causes me to inconvenience other models, MUAs or photographers because of her flake/cancellation, she's blacklisted. It also depends on whether she notifies me or if I have to seek her out and find out if she's bailed. I usually contact the model the day or night before the shoot, to verify she's ready. If she says she can't make it, I have to wonder if she was ever going to tell me. If she's cancelled on me before, she doesn't get the benefit of the doubt this time. Calling or emailing me the day of the shoot and saying she partied too hard the night before... I appreciate the notice but the gross lack of preparation makes it a flakeout. A reasonable and sincere cancellation or postponement with reasonable notice get the benefit of the doubt. The window varies according to the inconvenience. Repeated reschedules due to mass casualties in the family = flake. Flat-out no-call/no-show = blacklist. Getting caught in a lie about a cancellation = blacklist. I do share model info -- good and bad -- with photographer friends. I'll schedule with model/client who flaked on me before, but only with payment to me in advance. Feb 08 12 01:25 am Link Sweet Annie Marie wrote: landscape photography... LOL Feb 08 12 01:28 am Link Photography InFocus wrote: Well, having a "policy" isn't always a good thing Every case should be evaluated on it's own. My favorite, and long term, and good friend now flaked her first time Feb 08 12 01:33 am Link Don't give em a second chance. If you do it shows that they got away with it the first time with no ill-will so they'll be more likely to do it a second time if you give them the chance. Feb 08 12 02:10 am Link If model flakes on me......no second chance....unless she had a reallyyyyyy good excuse for not calling and cancelling... Like she was in a car accident and could not use the phone or something... Would I warn other locals about her...no, unless I was asked but not going to go out of the way to do so. Feb 08 12 02:12 am Link You can make a flake list on your profile, but it can scare off models because they never know if you are just putting models on the list that didn't call and didn't show up or if you are putting models that did call with a legit excuse (bad things do happen like accidents, sickness, car broke down, et cetera). I'll give you a good example why not to make a "blacklist". I have a brain tumor and while getting ready for a shoot I passed out and woke up hours after the shoot. I called the photographer and told him what happened, but because he had been flaked on before he thought I was making up an excuse. I asked to reschedule and was willing to show proof from the hospital of what happened, but he refused. The next day I found he had made a list of flakes and I was on it. Yes, it is an extreme case, but it is the reason that when I look at "blacklists" I find it petty, bitter, and you never know the full story of why the person didn't show up. Feb 08 12 02:53 am Link Photography InFocus wrote: If someone cancels, they are cancelling YOU. Feb 08 12 03:02 am Link Neither shaken or stirred just chilled. You can re book but I'll not even set up one light till you turn up to the studio. Seems to be a UK thing models party the night before and flake due to hangover. I've heard this a few times and not just internet models agency ones. Feb 08 12 03:30 am Link I'd love a black list - but there wouldn't be room for anything else like all the other good stuff on MM. So what's the breakup? What do have - 650,000 members? 400,000 models? 10,000 real ones? So we have a 39 in 40 chance of a model not turning up? Whoever said "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" was probably a photographer offering a model some work. I'm going to love the answers I get to this but I've got a reply - experience. Feb 08 12 04:40 am Link It's really case by case. As a model, I am happy that I have never had to cancel last minute but, knock on wood, who knows what can happen. So first, find out what happened. Sometimes emergencies do occur. People get hurt or die or literally get incapacitated (that's my big word of the day lol). Then next, if not an emergency, try to ask what's up. Is the model new or inexperienced? Or the opposite? Finally, sometimes life is unfair. If a model flakes on you but is connected to the Playboy mansion and key players from 20 different mags, then you might just have to bite the bullet. Again, not saying it's fair, and i even admit it's kind of unfair, but for your own sake, to protect yourself, sometimes you have to take the high ground. As my friends always tell me, "Be careful who you shun -- her father might be a billionaire, and her mother might be your boss." Now, I am Canadian, so maybe I just like the "nice" approach in general lol. But, whatever you do, first take a deep breath, then think, then ask, then plan, and THEN act. Sorry if that was obvious or "trite" (another fancy word of mine lol), but i hope it helped! -KNS Feb 08 12 04:49 am Link i have a no repeat policy flake* once & you'll never be in the studio again without a lot of begging *flake = no show the day of shoot , or canceling the day of shoot Feb 08 12 04:56 am Link No second chance. I don't have much tolerance for stuff like that these days. In fact, I just had this sexy young model from MM I was going to test with this past weekend. The night before the shoot she's texting me asking "what exactly did you want me to bring to wear?" Just a few days before I had a phone call with her explaining all of that. So I knew there was more to it. I texted back, "I think we already covered that, no?" Sure enough, eventually it got around to " So hey, like, my parents are all worried about me going to a shoot alone. Cool if my mom comes with me? She's petite and super fun!" I told her to tell her parents she's a big girl now. Then she asked, "Well, what if it's someone else like a girlfriend?" At that point I just said, "Let's just cancel this shoot. I've got a lot of other shit I need to be doing anyway." I just didn't feel like dealing with it. All of you photographers know, it's a lot of work setting up those lights, shooting, tearing the set, editing, processing files, tweaking or retouching them. And honestly there was a lot of other shit I should have been doing besides shooting some hot young chick in her underwear with her "super fun and petite" mom over my shoulder. Feb 08 12 05:41 am Link i've had some models who wound up not being able to shoot on saturday but came on sunday instead. but the ones where we rescheduled for the next week never happened. it's good to network with local photographers and share stories about models (good and bad). you can put "do not recommend" in your profile although i've avoided that temptation thus far. if i see a model with a bunch of "do not recommends" i wonder what they might have done to help cause the trouble (maybe nothing but it leaves me wondering). i prefer to just move on and find models who do want to shoot with me. Feb 08 12 07:28 am Link Cancellations happen. As long as the model communicates, I don't think it's a big deal. Feb 08 12 07:34 am Link No second chances with flakes...I am very transparent and forthcoming in planning a shoot and don't have the time or energy to work with people who are not serious. I think we all can tell a flake from a legitimate cancellation. I tell other photographers that I know if the model flakes in the worst way (simply doesn't show up without a call or anything). Those models should really be put on a ship and cast out to sea. Feb 08 12 07:38 am Link When a model flakes or cancels, it's usually apparent whether it's "legitimate" or not. When a model really wants to shoot, but is really sick, or really has something else that must take priority, they are usually very apologetic and offer to reschedule immediately. They continue to communicate well. The one's who just aren't serious, give some lame excuse and vanish with nothing more said. Feb 08 12 08:43 am Link Depends on the circumstances usually . . . Flakes, Hobbles I'll gladly share this information with the community . . . it's a work ethic and I'll be damned if I'm going to enable that as OK . . . . . . everything else gets a rate or a second chance 90% of the time . . . Feb 08 12 08:57 am Link What about photographers that flake?? Feb 08 12 09:01 am Link I have run many shoots, and I tend to try and give 1 second chance, but that's it. Luckily I have never had a "flake" wreck a shoot, I have many friends willing to help. But that's just it, you decide to flake on my shoots, and its a team of people who know, word gets around in this business, so you really don't need to post anything for people to hear about crap like "flaking". * and this isn't just models, photographer, MUA's, hair, even. Anyone can flake, they just don't go as far if they do. Everyone's time is important, but sometimes stuff does happen. I'm understanding, to a point.  Feb 08 12 09:04 am Link Like other have said, it depends. My last flake.. I had a casting call, over 100 models looked at it, only 3 said they were interested, with one being REALLY interested. Unfortunately I went with her. Emails went back and forth for almost three weeks. Shoot was on a Monday. Sunday night she emails me late at night and says" Oh, I forgot to tell you, I'm moving tomorrow and can't make it" Would I give her another chance? Not even if SHE paid me to shoot my project with her! Feb 08 12 09:08 am Link |
