Model
Rose Winters
Posts: 57
Los Angeles, California, US
I'm 16, turning 17 in about two months. I've been getting asked a lot if I'd be willing to model lingerie and/or glamour, but I've always said no to that since 1. I think I'm too young for that (neither my parents or I would be okay with it), and 2. Even if I wanted to, I know there's a bunch of controversy about that topic around legal issues so I wouldn't wanna get involved with that. But then I had an idea. A photographer and I were talking and I said that I would not do lingerie or glamour modeling, but I might consider modeling underwear if it's just kind of like what you'd see in a catalog for junior/teen underwear (not intended to be too sexy/seductive looking either). I gave him these examples: http://www1.macys.com/shop/womens-cloth … e?id=56273 http://www.kohls.com/catalog/juniors-in … 3000001611 I know this is legal. But what is your view on underage models (16, 17) modeling catalog style underwear? Considering they would just be what you would most likely see in a department store or Fred Meyer catalog or something, my mom would probably be okay with it. The photographer also said that he was asking because he wants to find a model willing to do this (and their parents agreeing and signing the contract of course), and make a website dedicated to it. He said the pay would probably be $600 per shoot, and he would pay for the makeup, spray tans to look good, and all the underwear I don't already have that we would pick out/agree on shooting. How does this sound? What is your view on this?
Photographer
Woven Thought
Posts: 329
Petersburg, Virginia, US
My views? Sorry, no bodies until 18. My freedom is just too important to me.  ETA: You also need to be extra careful with any photographer willing to toe this line. You are NOT an adult.
Photographer
TEW Photography
Posts: 152
York, Pennsylvania, US
Ask yourself this: why does a photographer want to photograph you in underwear?
Photographer
Wolfy4u
Posts: 1103
Grand Junction, Colorado, US
Just my opinion worth what you'll paying for it.
This pay just sounds too high for a beginning model and he said "maybe"!
You're really cute and your posing is very professional looking for your age.
Just wait until you're 18 then pursue some of these avenues. I'm seeing a 'red' flag
here. He's just too eager.
Photographer
Lawrence Guy
Posts: 17716
San Diego Country Estates, California, US
Wynne Turner wrote:
The photographer also said that he was asking because he wants to find a model willing to do this (and their parents agreeing and signing the contract of course), and make a website dedicated to it. He said the pay would probably be $600 per shoot, and he would pay for the makeup, spray tans to look good, and all the underwear I don't already have that we would pick out/agree on shooting.
How does this sound? What is your view on this? What kind of website? Is it selling underwear for teens, or pics of teens in underwear? If the latter, it sounds pretty sleazy.
Model
allison mindy
Posts: 1495
Gainesville, Florida, US
Lawrence Guy wrote:
What kind of website? Is it selling underwear for teens, or pics of teens in underwear? If the latter, it sounds pretty sleazy. I'm guessing the latter based on the wording of the OP, and yes I agree this sounds sleazy.
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 12221
Los Angeles, California, US
What do your parent's say about it?
Also - don't know if you noticed, but in the examples you provided, none of the models look under 18.
Also - the kind of junior intimates catalog images you seem to be referring to are shot for legitimate campaigns, managed by the designer or retailer. They aren't shot by photographers making arrangements with young girls.
Model
Rose Winters
Posts: 57
Los Angeles, California, US
John Allan wrote:
Also - the kind of junior intimates catalog images you seem to be referring to are shot for legitimate campaigns, managed by the designer or retailer. They aren't shot by photographers making arrangements with young girls. I know, I was just giving those examples to show the kind of posing it would be (not glamour or suggestive, but catalog type).
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
if it was for a commercial client through an agency, i wouldnt have an issue.. but if it is some amateur dude shooting for his book..i'd stay clear of it.. ![https://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png]()
Model
Model MoRina
Posts: 6638
MacMurdo - permanent station of the US, Sector claimed by New Zealand, Antarctica
Catalogs use agency models.
Websites selling pictures/video of underage girls in their underwear is child porn.
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 13053
Atlanta, Georgia, US
MoRina wrote:
Catalogs use agency models.
Websites selling pictures/video of underage girls in their underwear is child porn. +1 somehow I don't think it's JC Penny calling
Photographer
Michael Broughton
Posts: 2288
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
could be perfectly legal, depending on how you're posing and whatnot, but definitely sketchy. even if you're modeling underwear for a legitimate company that manufactures or sells underwear, you still need to keep in mind that desperate guys have been jerking off to half-naked girls in catalogs for as long as there have been half-naked girls in catalogs. they certainly helped me get through puberty before the internet came along. 
Photographer
Danny Does Glamour
Posts: 2346
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Wynne Turner wrote:
I'm 16, turning 17 in about two months. I've been getting asked a lot if I'd be willing to model lingerie and/or glamour, but I've always said no to that since 1. I think I'm too young for that (neither my parents or I would be okay with it), and 2. Even if I wanted to, I know there's a bunch of controversy about that topic around legal issues so I wouldn't wanna get involved with that.
But then I had an idea. A photographer and I were talking and I said that I would not do lingerie or glamour modeling, but I might consider modeling underwear if it's just kind of like what you'd see in a catalog for junior/teen underwear (not intended to be too sexy/seductive looking either). I gave him these examples:
http://www1.macys.com/shop/womens-cloth … e?id=56273
http://www.kohls.com/catalog/juniors-in … 3000001611
I know this is legal. But what is your view on underage models (16, 17) modeling catalog style underwear? Considering they would just be what you would most likely see in a department store or Fred Meyer catalog or something, my mom would probably be okay with it. The photographer also said that he was asking because he wants to find a model willing to do this (and their parents agreeing and signing the contract of course), and make a website dedicated to it. He said the pay would probably be $600 per shoot, and he would pay for the makeup, spray tans to look good, and all the underwear I don't already have that we would pick out/agree on shooting.
How does this sound? What is your view on this? Run! You want no part of this collaboration. While it might not be illegal per se the intent is to arouse and that could potentially cause you grief in the future. The photographer is approaching you under the guise of legitimacy but it is NOT legitimate. Don't be fooled.
Please message me if you need further guidance. This is not worth $600.
Photographer
Danny Does Glamour
Posts: 2346
Atlanta, Georgia, US
MoRina wrote:
[b]Catalogs use agency models.[b]
Websites selling pictures/video of underage girls in their underwear is child porn. Not always true. It's probably about 70/30 if I were to make an educated guess. I know models who make a living shooting catalogs with no representation.
Photographer
Danny Does Glamour
Posts: 2346
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Lawrence Guy wrote:
What kind of website? Is it selling underwear for teens, or pics of teens in underwear? If the latter, it sounds pretty sleazy. She mentioned going with the photographer to pick out underwear (which is strange on its own) so it isn't for an online catalog.
Photographer
Danny Does Glamour
Posts: 2346
Atlanta, Georgia, US
One other note. If I were shooting a juniors catalog and needed underage girls I would be working out the details with their parents.
Glad you posted here. Hope you will stay away from him. In fact, report him to the moderators if he is on this site.
Photographer
Lawrence Guy
Posts: 17716
San Diego Country Estates, California, US
Danny Does Glamour wrote:
She mentioned going with the photographer to pick out underwear (which is strange on its own) so it isn't for an online catalog. Yeah, I'm thinking she should check this photographer's changing room for hidden cameras.
Photographer
Bryan Benoit
Posts: 2106
Miami, Florida, US
"The photographer also said that he was asking because he wants to find a model willing to do this (and their parents agreeing and signing the contract of course), and make a website dedicated to it. He said the pay would probably be $600 per shoot, and he would pay for the makeup, spray tans to look good, and all the underwear I don't already have that we would pick out/agree on shooting."
OP.. does this sound like a catalog to you? You even mention that you could be modeling some of your own underwear... a catalog to sell your own underwear?
I think you have gotten lots of good solid advice on here already... RUN
Model
Model MoRina
Posts: 6638
MacMurdo - permanent station of the US, Sector claimed by New Zealand, Antarctica
Danny Does Glamour wrote:
Not always true. It's probably about 70/30 if I were to make an educated guess. I know models who make a living shooting catalogs with no representation. Sure, but what I said was in the context of this thread, though, so I was referring to underage girls. I don't believe there is a large legitimate freelance market for girls under 18.
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 13053
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Danny Does Glamour wrote:
Not always true. It's probably about 70/30 if I were to make an educated guess. I know models who make a living shooting catalogs with no representation. Out of thousands of shoot I don't recall us (Macy's) ever using a non agency model, I am not sure where you are getting your guess from...
Model
Rose Winters
Posts: 57
Los Angeles, California, US
Danny Does Glamour wrote:
She mentioned going with the photographer to pick out underwear (which is strange on its own) so it isn't for an online catalog. No, I would not be going with the photographer to pick out underwear. I would simply just send him a link to what I wanted to model specifically and he could order it.
Also, just to clear things up, this is NOT for a catalog. I'm saying it would be catalog STYLE shooting, strictly just talking about the way I would pose and what type of underwear I'd be wearing. He never said this is for a catalog, because it's not.
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 39248
Portland, Oregon, US
Wynne Turner wrote:
I'm 16, turning 17 in about two months. I've been getting asked a lot if I'd be willing to model lingerie and/or glamour, but I've always said no to that since 1. I think I'm too young for that (neither my parents or I would be okay with it), and 2. Even if I wanted to, I know there's a bunch of controversy about that topic around legal issues so I wouldn't wanna get involved with that.
But then I had an idea. A photographer and I were talking and I said that I would not do lingerie or glamour modeling, but I might consider modeling underwear if it's just kind of like what you'd see in a catalog for junior/teen underwear (not intended to be too sexy/seductive looking either). I gave him these examples:
http://www1.macys.com/shop/womens-cloth … e?id=56273
http://www.kohls.com/catalog/juniors-in … 3000001611
I know this is legal. But what is your view on underage models (16, 17) modeling catalog style underwear? Considering they would just be what you would most likely see in a department store or Fred Meyer catalog or something, my mom would probably be okay with it. The photographer also said that he was asking because he wants to find a model willing to do this (and their parents agreeing and signing the contract of course), and make a website dedicated to it. He said the pay would probably be $600 per shoot, and he would pay for the makeup, spray tans to look good, and all the underwear I don't already have that we would pick out/agree on shooting.
How does this sound? What is your view on this? If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
In this case, it sounds too good to be true. Getting paid for an actual commercial shoot for a legitimate client, no problem, but paying you up to $600 (plus additional expenses) and "make a web site dedicated to it" isn't just a red flag, it is an incredibly bright red strobe light surrounded by red flags.
Those kinds of photos are considered legitimate not just because of how they are shot, but also because of the reason why they are shot and the context they are used in, when you change the context/use you also change the appropriateness/justification of the photos.
The reason why commercial/catalog images like this are considered "okay" is not just because of their style, but also because of how they are ultimately used.
If you change that reason for why they are being taken, or change how they are being used, and that makes a HUGE difference on the legitimacy/appropriateness of whether it is okay or not.
From the details you've given here, it does not sound right.
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Wynne Turner wrote:
He never said this is for a catalog, because it's not. then avoid it...
![https://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png]()
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 12067
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US
Wynne Turner wrote:
I'm 16, turning 17 in about two months. I've been getting asked a lot if I'd be willing to llama lingerie and/or glamour, but I've always said no to that since 1. I think I'm too young for that (neither my parents or I would be okay with it), and 2. Even if I wanted to, I know there's a bunch of controversy about that topic around legal issues so I wouldn't wanna get involved with that.
But then I had an idea. A photographer and I were talking and I said that I would not do lingerie or glamour llamaing, but I might consider llamaing underwear if it's just kind of like what you'd see in a catalog for junior/teen underwear (not intended to be too sexy/seductive looking either). I gave him these examples:
http://www1.macys.com/shop/womens-cloth … e?id=56273
http://www.kohls.com/catalog/juniors-in … 3000001611
Model
Miroslava Svoboda
Posts: 555
Seattle, Washington, US
Realistically he doesn't need an under aged girl posing in that style for his portfolio, he can accomplish the same with an adult one.
Photographer
Lawrence Guy
Posts: 17716
San Diego Country Estates, California, US
Wynne Turner wrote:
Also, just to clear things up, this is NOT for a catalog. I'm saying it would be catalog STYLE shooting, strictly just talking about the way I would pose and what type of underwear I'd be wearing. He never said this is for a catalog, because it's not. That leaves the skeevy option.
What, specifically, do you think the end-use of these photos will be?
Photographer
Danny Does Glamour
Posts: 2346
Atlanta, Georgia, US
MoRina wrote:
Sure, but what I said was in the context of this thread, though, so I was referring to underage girls. I don't believe there is a large legitimate freelance market for girls under 18. In the context of this thread it still isn't true. There are many, many small companies who hire freelance models of all ages for online, print, look books, etc. it happens everyday.
This is NOT the case in this thread though as I mentioned above. I agree with everyone's assessment.
Photographer
Danny Does Glamour
Posts: 2346
Atlanta, Georgia, US
AJScalzitti wrote:
Out of thousands of shoot I don't recall us (Macy's) ever using a non agency model, I am not sure where you are getting your guess from... So in your limited experience (Macy's) you're going to make a blanket statement about the business as a whole? I shoot catalogs for a living.
Model
Isis22
Posts: 3557
Muncie, Indiana, US
Just the concept is making me want to throw up. Please, ask your parents what THEY think. You don't seem to be seeing what the rest of us are.
Photographer
Lawrence Guy
Posts: 17716
San Diego Country Estates, California, US
Isis22 wrote:
Just the concept is making me want to throw up. Please, ask your parents what THEY think. You don't seem to be seeing what the rest of us are. This.
In particular, the OP should have her mom read this thread word for word.
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
John Allan wrote:
Also - don't know if you noticed, but in the examples you provided, none of the models look under 18. I noticed that as well.
Model
Julia Steel
Posts: 2474
Sylvania, Ohio, US
Wynne Turner wrote:
The photographer also said that he was asking because he wants to find a model willing to do this (and their parents agreeing and signing the contract of course), and make a website dedicated to it. i'm sure there are plenty of 18+ models in his area willing to model underwear. there's something really creepy about the fact that he specifically wants a girl under the age of 18 to model underwear for him, and to make a website specifically for this. please please please be wary here, i am actually all kinds of worried for you right now since he sounds like a total creepy creeperman.
and fyi the models in the examples you provided are all 18+.
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 13053
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Danny Does Glamour wrote:
So in your limited experience (Macy's) you're going to make a blanket statement about the business as a whole? I shoot catalogs for a living. Yes, yes I am and I don't think Macy's is limited. But that isn't the point Danny
Photographer
Boho Hobo
Posts: 25351
Santa Barbara, California, US
Wynne Turner wrote:
I'm 16, turning 17 in about two months. I've been getting asked a lot if I'd be willing to model lingerie and/or glamour, but I've always said no to that since 1. I think I'm too young for that (neither my parents or I would be okay with it), and 2. Even if I wanted to, I know there's a bunch of controversy about that topic around legal issues so I wouldn't wanna get involved with that.
.....
I know this is legal. But what is your view on underage models (16, 17) modeling catalog style underwear? Considering they would just be what you would most likely see in a department store or Fred Meyer catalog or something, my mom would probably be okay with it. The photographer also said that he was asking because he wants to find a model willing to do this (and their parents agreeing and signing the contract of course), and make a website dedicated to it. He said the pay would probably be $600 per shoot, and he would pay for the makeup, spray tans to look good, and all the underwear I don't already have that we would pick out/agree on shooting.
How does this sound? What is your view on this? well... one would have to ask themselves...
1. why would a photographer have a whole website dedicated to underage models in underwear. ( I can think of a couple reasons)
2. why would a photographer pay an underaged girl $600 to model underwear? where does he make any profit? (unless of course he charges guys who want to see not legal teens in their undies).
If this is a solicitation from some dude on MM I'd run.
If we were talking you in a brick and mortar agency and this is part of a legitimate business trying to sell undies that's one thing. But someone from here....? No.
And where are your parents in all of this?????
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 12067
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US
Isis22 wrote:
Just the concept is making me want to throw up. Please, ask your parents what THEY think. You don't seem to be seeing what the rest of us are. Pretty much. A minor in underwear for a catalog isn't INHERENTLY bad, but as a rule, legit photographers won't shoot underage models in lingerie without a commercial project. In general, that means the only such offers are shaky to one degree or another.
Photographer
GER Photography
Posts: 8463
Imperial, California, US
MoRina wrote:
Catalogs use agency models.
Websites selling pictures/video of underage girls in their underwear is child porn. Yep!! I'd have to agree with this!
If someone suggested something like this to my daughter, I would make sure the police had a very long talk with the photographer.
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45198
San Juan Bautista, California, US
MoRina wrote:
Catalogs use agency models.
Websites selling pictures/video of underage girls in their underwear is child porn. Not exactly true! It's not illegal for a website that has teenaged models posing in underwear, bikini's etc, as long as it does not cross the line into what is considered pornography. A perfect example is this website www.trueteenbabes.com which has put the owner through the fire of court and expenses ... but he was aquitted of all charges and continnues to run his site. Being that it IS NOT a porn site, I believe it's alright for me to post the link as an example.
Photographer
ms-photo
Posts: 538
Portland, Oregon, US
There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to start. It's ![https://assets.modelmayhem.com/images/smilies/scary.png]() there are guys in Portland trying to pull this stuff. Also, I noticed you have some middle aged male "models" in your friends list. I dunno, personally I use this site for networking, I do not add people unless I am interested in working with them or are friends in real life. It would seem kind of strange to me that middle aged men would want to be "friends" with my 16 year old daughter. Seems creepy as hell.
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 12067
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US
Danny Does Glamour wrote:
So in your limited experience (Macy's) you're going to make a blanket statement about the business as a whole? I shoot catalogs for a living. AJScalzitti wrote:
Yes, yes I am and I don't think Macy's is limited. But that isn't the point Danny It IS limited. Just like someone who only drives new BMW's and Cadillacs has no knowledge of the issues encountered by those who buy $2,000 cars, working only with the likes of Macys is a limited perspective on the world.
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 12067
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US
ms-photo wrote:
It would seem kind of strange to me that middle aged men would want to be "friends" with my 16 year old daughter. Seems creepy as hell. I'm friends with 16 and 17 year old models on MM and FB, although not typically with this profile.
|
there are guys in Portland trying to pull this stuff. 