Farenell Photography wrote:
Could you please elaborate on this one?

I have been in more than one situation where (it often depends on the person) a perfectly reasonable offer to me may or may not be an insulting offer to them & vice versa.

How are we to know its insulting if the person is not told why?

Use common sense.  And go up a few posts and read what Laura Unbound has written, she thoroughly explains insulting offers.

Lola Magdalene Scott wrote:
I think the OP hit on some great points. Me personally I always reply to every initial message. It's just professional, and you shouldn't burn your bridges before you cross them....yes, we are all busy people..but there is no excuse to not send a reply, even if its a simple "I'm all booked up right now, thanks for the offer, maybe we can do something in the future"..took me all of 5 seconds to type that..and that person whose work sucks today may be taking million dollar photos in six months..you never know..if you are serious about the work, then you have to know networking is 75% of it..now if they start getting weird..yes, I will cut and run..I expect everyone I have communication with to be professional about it..because I am. I really hate it when I get no response back personally. Not that I am all butt hurt about being ignored, but I took the time out of my day to send a well thought out and professional message expressing interest, the professional thing to do on your end if you don't want to work with me is "Thanks for your interest, but not at this time"..again, 5 seconds to type..it's not rocket science..it's being professional.

For everyone that has the time and inclination to respond to every message they receive, and feels that all offers are worth responding to, well I believe they should keep doing what works for them. 

Not all messages are professional, or realistic, or worth responding to in my opinion.  I've learned from experience, I use my better judgement when I choose who to respond to, and I've gotta say, it's worked quite well for me.  I used to respond to everyone. Now I don't. I'm much more successful now, I don't waste time with people who are a pain the ass, and I'm much happier for it.

Everyone should do what they feel is right, but also realize that the entire world doesn't operate with the same mindset, and not take that fact personally.

Fotografica Gregor wrote:

LoL - you'd have to know me I guess -   I'm not a "hey wanna shoot" kind of guy....

when I attempt to open a conversation about a model's interest it is more important to me to determine if the interest is there by giving her an initial rough sketch of what I want to do - I'm not going to give out my complete concept or process unless interest is there....

and since my work is so very specific I only deal with rate offers / trade etc as a part of the negotiation for a specific shoot.....

this works for me most all the time -  I'm booked through January.....

If a model does not respond to me I personally don't care why ultimately -  I don't get my "heart set" on any one model -   I've sent out the note to see if there is interest and moved on.....  no worries....

but I think your post is a good one for those who have a hard time getting a response -

my problem is quite the opposite actually - I get more response than I ask for or know what to do with lol

Cheers

Sounds like a good way of operating, I say keep doing what works for you. 

TheWildWillShow wrote:
Models + No Etiquette = No career

I find it very stupid of a person to not chase ever lead and offer they can.. This isn't easy it's hard work. How do you know that someone who contacted you, isn't a industry insider? They just want to size you up.. See what you are made of.. I think models are the ones being tested with their behavior, that's why so many models profiles lay dominant.

Most models on MM are not making a career out of it.  I continually find it funny that photographers think a model is "shooting herself in the foot" or "ruining her career" by not responding to her messages.  Most models on MM don't have a chance at a modeling career, regardless of how many messages they respond to.  Many are hobbyists who model in addition to their day job (and have very limited time), and a very, very small percentage are "professional" models who rely on modeling as their main source of income.

I have a day job, and I model on the side.  If I stopped responding to all inquiries starting right now, I could stay busy for the next year with the ones I already have.  I know it's a difficult concept to grasp, but not all models on MM need *your* business.  Many don't need "business" at all, modeling is simply an artistic outlet for them. 

If you want "professional" models, contact an agency.  If you don't want to pay for agency models, and you insist on contacting amateurs, hobbyists, and part-time models here on MM, it is YOU who has chosen to go the "unprofessional" route.

Garry k wrote:

time and time again we see photographers herding into these type of threads , choking off what models have to share

Time and time again few models bother posting, leaving it to photographers to try and keep the thread alive.

Garry k wrote:
thankfully the OP is doing a pretty good job of keeping this thread alive by responding to to people

LOL, yes, it would be ironic if the OP did not respond to people in this thread, seeing how it is a complaint about people not responding. 

B Ballard Photography wrote:
I don't participate in the forums too often, but this thread caught my eye. In the years I've been a member here, I'm hard pressed to think of a time when a message I had sent to a model (or anyone else on MM) has been totally ignored. FWIW, I respond to each one I receive. And while I agree that messages should be kept concise and to the point, doing so may still result in messages consisting of multiple paragraphs. (And before I'm accused of hypocrisy, I'm rewriting my profile so that it is more concise and to the point!)

However, I do disagree with the following as being a sound basis for a 'no reply':


Models in my portfolio are not credited for one of two reasons:

1.) They are not a member of Model Mayhem; or
2.) They have asked not to be credited as they don't want to be hounded for nude work.

Simply not having credited images is not, IMHO, a reason to completely write off an inquiry. What's wrong with asking for references? Simply because a model is credited doesn't guarantee a more trustworthy reference from them, any more than had the photographer provided you with them. When I'm asked for references, I not only give models, but assistants, gallery directors, etc. After all, character and reputation aren't left on the set.

Just my .02.

I can understand where you're coming from, but I've had plenty of past experience corresponding with photographers who don't have any MM models credited in their ports, and most of those experiences haven't been good ones.  When I ask for references from these folks, often they are the ones that stop responding.  Many others will provide me names and email addresses for "models" that they've worked with who have absolutely no web presence, and there's no way for me to even verify that they are actually models.  There's no way for me to know if it's just the photographer himself setting up random email accounts and responding to his own reference checks.  Sometimes I'll be given a models phone # to contact them.  Sorry, but I'm not calling anyone, and again, there's no way for me to verify that the person on the other end of the phone isn't just one of the photographers friends.  On top of all this, I don't feel that a photographer choosing the names of models for me to contact is helpful in the least.  How do I know that they haven't worked with 100 models, 98 of them had a bad experience, and the photographer just chose the give me the contact info of the 2 who didn't?  I like choosing the models who I contact myself, and I like having more than 1 or 2 options to choose from.

Overall, trying to deal with these folks has proven to be a royal waste of time for me, so I usually choose not to.  If I respond to their initial message and let them know I'm not interested, they usually want to know why, or send back some butthurt response, much like this one, posted earlier in this thread:

Fashion and Flash wrote:
The classic hasty generalization.  I have many ports here and there, show/sell in galleries as fine art and am known in a number of underground circles.  Oh well!!!
Another rejection...you get used to them after a while, makes the exception that much more appreciated.

There's nothing wrong with choosing not to work with MM models, but it shocks me that people who choose to do this seem so surprised when MM models don't want to work with them, or don't respond to them.  Experienced models often have no need to bother wasting time when they have plenty of safer/easier/more lucrative options. I encourage photographers trying to build a rep on MM to contact newer models, or models at their own level who also have few or no references.  That, or send a very professional offer for a substantial amount money to an experienced model who may decide it's worth the extra time, and potential hassle of checking outside references, or worth the risk of going to the shoot without checking references at all.

Garry k wrote:
time and time again we see photographers herding into these type of threads , choking off what models have to share

RKD Photographic wrote:
Time and time again few models bother posting, leaving it to photographers to try and keep the thread alive.

Garry k wrote:
hmmm , i wonder why

thankfully the OP is doing a pretty good job of keeping this thread alive by responding to to people

Maybe the models are busy trying to respond to all their messages. 

A M U L wrote:
Personally I feel you should just let someone know if possible, even if meant saying I do not wish to work with you at this time/because...of this that or the other. You'd politely say if you did want to work with someone, so why not the other way around.

When I was new to MM, I used to respond to absolutely everyone, and when I rejected an offer, I would always include a polite, but honest reason why.  The result?  A variety of "fuck you" type of responses. 

Then, I got wiser.  I would respond to all messages, and when I rejected an offer, I wouldn't include a reason why.  The result?  Usually a message back asking why, an honest response from me, then sometimes appreciation from the person on the other end, and sometimes the same variety of "fuck you" type of butthurt responses I mentioned above.

Then, I got wiser still. Now I trust my trust my instinct, use common sense, and use my past experience to determine who is worth responding to. The result?  I waste much less time corresponding with people I have absolutely no intention of working with, and I haven't received a "fuck you" type of response in ages. 

Verdict= my current system of responding to people based on common sense and past experience is working much better than my old system of always responding to everyone.

MelissaAnn  wrote:

Garry k wrote:
time and time again we see photographers herding into these type of threads , choking off what models have to share

RKD Photographic wrote:
Time and time again few models bother posting, leaving it to photographers to try and keep the thread alive.

Maybe the models are busy trying to respond to all their messages. 

I can picture them now, slaving away over a hot keyboard...

Tony Lawrence wrote:
When I first joined MM I had few images and no references.  Models like the OP would have passed on working with me and many others in my same position. Its hard to get references when you are new

  Yet, somehow, people do it. It's hard work in the beginning, and a lot of rejection is to be expected.  I was rejected by many photographers when I was new.  Did I blame them?  No.  Am I butthurt about it? Nope. Everyone has to deal with rejection and lack of response in the beginning, and people that think they shouldn't have to need to grow up.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Most photographers who do pay are newer and again may not have worked with many models.  Still it is important to follow up with every serious offer.

Not all offers are serious, and some people have different definitions of what a "serious" offer is.  If I sent Julia Roberts a message and asked her if she would be willing to star in my indie film for $500, she probably wouldn't consider that a "serious" offer, and I wouldn't get a response.  Just because the offer is "serious" to the sender, doesn't mean the receiver is going to take it seriously.  People need to be realistic.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
If you call yourself a professional model then behave in a professional manner.

I don't call myself a "professional" model, and many of the people contacting me aren't "professional" photographers either.  It's pretty obvious that not all members of MM are trying to make a "professional" career out of modeling/photography.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Even if it means spending a few extra minutes responding.   As a member noted.  Today's GWC or newbie may be tomorrows star.   If someone gives you a low-ball rate don't be insulted.   Let them know you charge more.   If someone is gross and or sexually explicit CAM them.

Yes, and at the point where anyone becomes a real "Star" they realize that it's simply not possible to respond to every message they receive. 

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Good communication is a critical part of networking.  There is no good excuse to not reply to serious offers or ignore people who haven't been rude.  If a reference is bad then at least say no thanks.  No need to elaborate and if the person continues to ask let them know you will block them.

That's your opinion.  There are many successful models/photographers on this site who don't respond to all of their messages......and there are many who don't consider it rude.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
However this is MM.   Home to the internet super model.  She and he who makes thousands per day and who won't roll out of bed or respond to emails for less then $100.00 per half hour.

^^^I detect some bitterness.  Why begrudge other people because they are successful?  It doesn't help you any.

MelissaAnn  wrote:
Use common sense.  And go up a few posts and read what Laura Unbound has written, she thoroughly explains insulting offers.

Sorry but saying to someone to use "common sense" is like telling someone "if you don't know why I'm pissed off at you, then I'm not going to tell you."

Laura UnBound wrote:
To clarify on the "offer is insulting" point...

That can mean a number of things.

You ask for content that is plainly stated as something she doesn't do, or you try to bait and switch her into doing content not agreed on. (Booking for an art nude shoot, and then somewhere along the lines of communication you send "examples" of what you want to shoot that are NOT art nudes. etc)

You ask for "usual rates for a 2 hour nude shoot" and then 10 messages later throw in a "by the way, the location I want to use is 4 hours away making it a 10 hour day total, we need to be there at 5am for the best light, in february, you need to provide hair and makeup and top designer wardrobe, and bring me a latte"

I disagree.

Those aren't "insulting", those are either "changing the terms of the shoot" &/or "leaving out vital bits of information."

Laura UnBound wrote:
You either didn't look at her portfolio or you have wildly different ideas about your own level of quality than she does. If you're trying to offer her a TF shoot and she could take a better picture with her iphone than you can in your "40 years of professional experience with the best of the best of the best teachers and you use the best of the best of the best equipment and you're a photoshop wizard"... theres a problem. Be realistic. No, "it doesn't hurt to ask"... unless you look delusional doing so. And don't get asshurt when you don't get the reply of a lifetime. Again, wasting her time and undervaluing her work is insulting.

I understand where you're coming from but in fairness, MANY models leave it open ended. Like indicating that the terms of compensation "depends on assignment" or state in their profile that they'll do a TF* w/ certain photographers.

Where I come from, their answer is ALWAYS going to be a no unless you ask & there's no harm in doing so. Lord knows I've worked w/ a ton of professional models (those that do or did this for a living) who I was convinced was "out of my league" but because I had the guts to ask & they saw something of value in working w/ me (heavens knows it wasn't the content I was producing at the time), they took that chance.

Farenell Photography wrote:
Sorry but saying to someone to use "common sense" is like telling someone "if you don't know why I'm pissed off at you, then I'm not going to tell you."

There were two parts to my message.  I *also* recommended you read Laura Unbound's post for further clarification. Was it not helpful?

Laura UnBound  wrote:
To clarify on the "offer is insulting" point...

That can mean a number of things.

You ask for content that is plainly stated as something she doesn't do, or you try to bait and switch her into doing content not agreed on. (Booking for an art nude shoot, and then somewhere along the lines of communication you send "examples" of what you want to shoot that are NOT art nudes. etc)

You ask for "usual rates for a 2 hour nude shoot" and then 10 messages later throw in a "by the way, the location I want to use is 4 hours away making it a 10 hour day total, we need to be there at 5am for the best light, in february, you need to provide hair and makeup and top designer wardrobe, and bring me a latte"

Farenell Photography wrote:
I disagree.

Those aren't "insulting", those are either "changing the terms of the shoot" &/or "leaving out vital bits of information."

Laura UnBound wrote:
You either didn't look at her portfolio or you have wildly different ideas about your own level of quality than she does. If you're trying to offer her a TF shoot and she could take a better picture with her iphone than you can in your "40 years of professional experience with the best of the best of the best teachers and you use the best of the best of the best equipment and you're a photoshop wizard"... theres a problem. Be realistic. No, "it doesn't hurt to ask"... unless you look delusional doing so. And don't get asshurt when you don't get the reply of a lifetime. Again, wasting her time and undervaluing her work is insulting.

Farenell Photography wrote:
I understand where you're coming from but in fairness, MANY models leave it open ended. Like indicating that the terms of compensation "depends on assignment" or state in their profile that they'll do a TF* w/ certain photographers.

Where I come from, their answer is ALWAYS going to be a no unless you ask & there's no harm in doing so. Lord knows I've worked w/ a ton of professional models (those that do or did this for a living) who I was convinced was "out of my league" but because I had the guts to ask & they saw something of value in working w/ me (heavens knows it wasn't the content I was producing at the time), they took that chance.

Changing the terms of a shoot, or leaving out vital information is considered insulting by many models.  If you don't find it insulting, good for you.  This thread is about why *models* may not respond to messages.  Laura provided a very detailed and well put together response, and I agree with her 100%.

She didn't say there was any harm in asking, or that you would *never* get a response.  Again, she was simply providing a valid reason for why *some* models don't respond to such offers.

If what you're doing is working so well for you, keep doing it.  Nobody is telling you not to.

Fernon II wrote:
Melissa is so damn hot, reponse or no response; just seeing that she viewed the message would knock my socks off.

Awwww, thanks!   

Risen Phoenix Photo wrote:
If I message a model that I am interested in working with her, I always invite them to carefully review my port and my profile. If they message back that they are interested, we discuss the concept and particulars and plan a date to shoot.  If they request references I give them numbers or I refer them to my model profile so they can message them. If they Do Not respond which is rate these days, I ask one more time if they are interested. Most of the time I do get a response .

If I fail to get a response a second time I BLOCK them so I never bother them again and move on.

Quite frankly 50% of my art models are not on MM. They tend to shoot for the love of art, are drama free, are not arrogant. And work TF.  I work with. Team of models about 8 each year.  That way don't have to deal with model egos or the opportunists.
IMHO

Risen phoenix

Sounds like a good system for the way you operate.

You've done some beautiful work. 

Farenell Photography wrote:
I disagree.

Those aren't "insulting", those are either "changing the terms of the shoot" &/or "leaving out vital bits of information."


I understand where you're coming from but in fairness, MANY models leave it open ended. Like indicating that the terms of compensation "depends on assignment" or state in their profile that they'll do a TF* w/ certain photographers.

Where I come from, their answer is ALWAYS going to be a no unless you ask & there's no harm in doing so. Lord knows I've worked w/ a ton of professional models (those that do or did this for a living) who I was convinced was "out of my league" but because I had the guts to ask & they saw something of value in working w/ me (heavens knows it wasn't the content I was producing at the time), they took that chance.

And I disagree with your disagreement. Personally, I find it insulting when someone jerks me around on the details of things or thinks they can get one by me. I find it insulting when, especially when I was traveling, I left prime time slots open for these people and they thought they could do whatever the hell they wanted and it would be totally cool with me, regardless of how it might change if I even wanted to do the shoot or not, how much Id want to be paid for it, or if it interfered with other gigs I had booked around it. Thats a disrespect to me, my job, and my time. Thats insulting.



As for the second part, thats fine. Im glad that its worked out for you. You obviously dont fit the bill for someone who goes way out of their league and gets ignored, and cant figure out why they were ignored, thats very good.

On the other hand, Ive got a whole inbox of people who sent me TF requests that im pretty sure must have been out of their minds that day. And instead of ignore them, I countered with my rates...and then either *I* got ignored, or more often I got some variation of "Fuck you and the horse you rode in on who are you to charge ME? IM GREAT. YOURE A GREEDY BITCH. I'll find a REAL model who likes ART instead!" but if I'd just ignored them, they couldnt possibly figure out why. Why someone wouldnt want to spend a couple hours with that.

Now I just ignore them because I dont need the money anymore, and I dont have to put myself through being yelled at because I can tell where I stand on the totem pole and not NEEDING to work below my ability. If they actually took a good hard look at our work side-by-side, maybe they would understand why I havent responded to their 10 messages in the last 3 months asking me why I dont want to shoot with them.

MelissaAnn  wrote:

Tony Lawrence wrote:
When I first joined MM I had few images and no references.  Models like the OP would have passed on working with me and many others in my same position. Its hard to get references when you are new

  Yet, somehow, people do it. It's hard work in the beginning, and a lot of rejection is to be expected.  I was rejected by many photographers when I was new.  Did I blame them?  No.  Am I butthurt about it? Nope. Everyone has to deal with rejection and lack of response in the beginning, and people that think they shouldn't have to need to grow up.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Most photographers who do pay are newer and again may not have worked with many models.  Still it is important to follow up with every serious offer.

Not all offers are serious, and some people have different definitions of what a "serious" offer is.  If I sent Julia Roberts a message and asked her if she would be willing to star in my indie film for $500, she probably wouldn't consider that a "serious" offer, and I wouldn't get a response.  Just because the offer is "serious" to the sender, doesn't mean the receiver is going to take it seriously.  People need to be realistic.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
If you call yourself a professional model then behave in a professional manner.

I don't call myself a "professional" model, and many of the people contacting me aren't "professional" photographers either.  It's pretty obvious that not all members of MM are trying to make a "professional" career out of modeling/photography.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Even if it means spending a few extra minutes responding.   As a member noted.  Today's GWC or newbie may be tomorrows star.   If someone gives you a low-ball rate don't be insulted.   Let them know you charge more.   If someone is gross and or sexually explicit CAM them.

Yes, and at the point where anyone becomes a real "Star" they realize that it's simply not possible to respond to every message they receive. 

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Good communication is a critical part of networking.  There is no good excuse to not reply to serious offers or ignore people who haven't been rude.  If a reference is bad then at least say no thanks.  No need to elaborate and if the person continues to ask let them know you will block them.

That's your opinion.  There are many successful models/photographers on this site who don't respond to all of their messages......and there are many who don't consider it rude.

^^^I detect some bitterness.  Why begrudge other people because they are successful?  It doesn't help you any.

MelissaAnn, I don't think Julia Roberts is on MM.   This is largely a site for amateur models and photographers.   If you are a model seeking payment and or to better your book then it makes zero sense not to reply to serious offers for payment and or TF.    I don't think I said it was rude.   I do think at some level its foolish and unprofessional and yes that's my opinion as is what you've said.   People are free to agree or disagree.   I don't care which and my guess is you don't either.   If a offer isn't for you then say so.   Don't ignore the sender.   My feeling is most models here don't receive that many emails.   Most join and get a bunch which tapers off after a few weeks.   

My comments were in general and not quite directed at you but those who want to become professional models and photographers need to understand that its about understanding who your clients are.   Freelance models who rely on payment from photographers and or real world clients like stores, designers and others must follow up with calls and emails quickly.   As for being bitter.  I learned a long time ago not to take or make things personal.   Most of the models on MM are not professional in the way they handle their business and frankly I don't expect much from most.   Its not being bitter its seeing things as they are.   I've said this before but people with real budgets need to go to real world agencies. 

My opinion is that if you are serious about shooting and making money then return all emails and or calls even if to decline a offer.   Be professional and respectful and demand the same from those who contact you.   Being professional isn't just about how money you make or your work.   Its in your attitude and how you conduct yourself.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
So many MM models shoot themselves in the foot.   The ideal is to build bridges, network, add and grow your portfolio and make money.   Difficult to do if you won't reply or stop suddenly.   If someone has offended you or they fail the 'reference' check or for any other reason you don't want to work with them.   Tell them you're busy.   Tell them you aren't available to shoot or tell them about their poor references but say something .   I know some here are big fans of references but many of the shooters who may offer payment will have no or few references.   

That said.   If you are going to call yourself a professional model then act professionally.   Reply to emails and calls.   If someone is rude or aggressive and or you decide for any reason you no longer want to work with them say so.   If they continue CAM and block them.   A MM model approached me about a shoot.   I replied, nothing.   She then wrote me from a CL ad.   Not knowing it was me.   I wrote her and mentioned her initial tag here.   She said that paid work came first and I was offering TF.   How would she know when she never replied to my message and again she tagged me.    Models do yourself a solid.   Respond to all serious offers, TF or not.   Being in business means being about business.

That's not very practical for those that get a ton of email Tony. Especially if they answer all their own email.

LaurensAntoine 4 FHM wrote:

That's not very practical for those that get a ton of email Tony. Especially if they answer all their own email.

Really?   If you can take the time to read the emails then reply.   I know a CEO  of a company.   This is a Fortune 1000 company who replies to his emails.   ALL of them but models can't?   I am not talking about spam mind you.    Oh well, I guess your correct.   Models from MM are busier then executives.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
MelissaAnn, I don't think Julia Roberts is on MM.  This is largely a site for amateur models and photographers.[/b]   If you are a model seeking payment and or to better your book then it makes zero sense not to reply to serious offers for payment and or TF.    I don't think I said it was rude.   I do think at some level its foolish and unprofessional and yes that's my opinion as is what you've said.   People are free to agree or disagree.   I don't care which and my guess is you don't either.   If a offer isn't for you then say so.   Don't ignore the sender.   My feeling is most models here don't receive that many emails.   Most join and get a bunch which tapers off after a few weeks.   

My comments were in general and not quite directed at you but those who want to become professional models and photographers need to understand that its about understanding who your clients are.   Freelance models who rely on payment from photographers and or real world clients like stores, designers and others must follow up with calls and emails quickly.   As for being bitter.  I learned a long time ago not to take or make things personal.   Most of the models on MM are not professional in the way they handle their business and frankly I don't expect much from most.   Its not being bitter its seeing things as they are.   I've said this before but people with real budgets need to go to real world agencies. 

My opinion is that if you are serious about shooting and making money then return all emails and or calls even if to decline a offer.   Be professional and respectful and demand the same from those who contact you.   Being professional isn't just about how money you make or your work.   Its in your attitude and how you conduct yourself.

You've contradicted yourself so many times (compared to your last post), you've actually made my point. 

Paige Morgan wrote:
I've never just dropped communication with someone. I will politely decline certain offers (which some folks don't handle well), but I always respond if for nothing else so that the person knows the message was received/read/considered.

Also, because I have OCD issues, I try to make sure responses are sent out in 24 hours or less.


Not everyone has time to be attached at the hip to their smartphone to that degree though.

Ok, I just wanted to celebrate that models like you do exist.  Because saying no thanks and hitting send takes about 5 seconds.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Really?   If you can take the time to read the emails then reply.   I know a CEO  of a company.   This is a Fortune 1000 company who replies to his emails.   ALL of them but models can't?   I am not talking about spam mind you.    Oh well, I guess your correct.   Models from MM are busier then executives.

Some popular models get hundreds of messages a day, Tony.  If you don't think so, you're wrong.  Some models have to juggle responding to messages from all of their social networking sites in addition to MM.  Between traveling, answering messages, actually working, and tending to their personal lives, many models are quite pressed for time.

Laura UnBound wrote:
And I disagree with your disagreement.

(1)Personally, I find it insulting when someone jerks me around on the details of things or thinks they can get one by me. I find it insulting when, especially when I was traveling, I left prime time slots open for these people and they thought they could do whatever the hell they wanted and it would be totally cool with me, regardless of how it might change if I even wanted to do the shoot or not, how much Id want to be paid for it, or if it interfered with other gigs I had booked around it. Thats a disrespect to me, my job, and my time. Thats insulting.



(2)As for the second part, thats fine. Im glad that its worked out for you. You obviously dont fit the bill for someone who goes way out of their league and gets ignored, and cant figure out why they were ignored, thats very good.

(3)On the other hand, Ive got a whole inbox of people who sent me TF requests that im pretty sure must have been out of their minds that day. And instead of ignore them, I countered with my rates...and then either *I* got ignored, or more often I got some variation of "Fuck you and the horse you rode in on who are you to charge ME? IM GREAT. YOURE A GREEDY BITCH. I'll find a REAL model who likes ART instead!" but if I'd just ignored them, they couldnt possibly figure out why. Why someone wouldnt want to spend a couple hours with that.

Now I just ignore them because I dont need the money anymore, and I dont have to put myself through being yelled at because I can tell where I stand on the totem pole and not NEEDING to work below my ability. If they actually took a good hard look at our work side-by-side, maybe they would understand why I havent responded to their 10 messages in the last 3 months asking me why I dont want to shoot with them.

1. You've proven my point. What you described is not "insulting", its "not respecting another person's time."

So you're time got wasted & it (expletive deleted) sucks. But work long enough in this business, it happens to ALL of us.

2. If a person you feel is subpar, do you REALLY think they will see themselves that way? Seriously, most people are amateurs on this site or do what we do because its something we enjoy. Most of us are off in our own little worlds because of it.

I'm sorry. I still see no harm in asking because A. people do say "yes" &/or B. yesterdays "no" has been known to say "yes." It happens to me all the time. Even those I myself have told "no" to in the past.

3. Insulting is something when one or both parties get personal (which is what you described further on in the post). But even when that happens, ok so they insulted you because you turned them down. Big deal. They've just revealed you made a smart decision.

MelissaAnn  wrote:

You've contradicted yourself so many times (compared to your last post), you've actually made my point. 

How so?   I continue to make several of the same points and have done so in countless threads like this one.   Models should reply to serious offers.   If only to just say no.   They in my view shouldn't just stop communication without explaining to that person why.   This applies to those seeking to become working pros and those who are not.   Conducting yourself with professionalism is the way to roll.   However I'm a knucklehead so where I contradict myself?

Tony Lawrence wrote:

Really?   If you can take the time to read the emails then reply.   I know a CEO  of a company.   This is a Fortune 1000 company who replies to his emails.   ALL of them but models can't?   I am not talking about spam mind you.    Oh well, I guess your correct.   Models from MM are busier then executives.

He must not get that many emails then. I know a ton of people, including myself who have to have others answer email for them. I don't see an amateur model having the resources to be able to do that.

MelissaAnn  wrote:

Some popular models get hundreds of messages a day, Tony.  If you don't think so, you're wrong.  Some models have to juggle responding to messages from all of their social networking sites in addition to MM.  Between traveling, answering messages, actually working, and tending to their personal lives, many models are quite pressed for time.

Really?   Some of those same models have time to spend on Facebook.   Where they drone on about their new nail color or to tell everyone about their latest date.   Hundreds of emails a day?   Wow... I had no ideal.   Curious as some of those popular models complain about the lack of paid work.   Maybe if they took the time to read those hundreds of emails that wouldn't be a problem but I stand corrected.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

How so?   I continue to make several of the same points and have done so in countless threads like this one.   Models should reply to serious offers.   If only to just say no.   They in my view shouldn't just stop communication without explaining to that person why.   This applies to those seeking to become working pros and those who are not.   Conducting yourself with professionalism is the way to roll.   However I'm a knucklehead so where I contradict myself?

You've made my point, so there's no need for me to waste any more time going back and forth with you.  Although you may not see it, it will be pretty clear to many others reading this thread.  I'm not trying to convince you of anything at this point, Tony.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Really?   Some of those same models have time to spend on Facebook.   Where they drone on about their new nail color or to tell everyone about their latest date.   Hundreds of emails a day?   Wow... I had no ideal.   Curious as some of those popular models complain about the lack of paid work.   Maybe if they took the time to read those hundreds of emails that wouldn't be a problem but I stand corrected.

Wow, you're really slow.  Not all messages are "offers", not all offers are serious, and not all serious offers are for paid work.  That doesn't change the fact that some models have to sort through hundreds of *messages* which can take a lot of time.  So yes, you stand corrected.  BTW, everyone has the right to make time for a social life (facebook, etc).