Latent Images wrote:
In a word, "Trade". There are way too many hobbyist photographers willing to cover costs and even pay a fee. A model can build her book and get paid doing it. Why would they trade?

very well stated in four sentences, and i totally agree.

considering that i too would like my costs covered and paid a fee... i know i am certainly not on the list of photographers that some models want to shoot with.

i could also add that some models are not interested in "Trade" if they are not going to get a CD at the end of a shoot with ALL images that were taken.

here is another reason:
not everyone is totally comfortable with reading and comprehending the English language. your well-written "Trade" offer could be read by eyes that do not understand some of the words used in your message.

Jersey Shore wrote:

very well stated in four sentences, and i totally agree.

considering that i too would like my costs covered and paid a fee... i know i am certainly not on the list of photographers that some models want to shoot with.

i could also add that some models are not interested in "Trade" if they are not going to get a CD at the end of a shoot with ALL images that were taken.

here is another reason:
not everyone is totally comfortable with reading and comprehending the English language. your well-written "Trade" offer could be read by eyes that do not understand some of the words used in your message.

kevin bellanger wrote:

they say they will trade...then don't reply

c_h_r_i_s wrote:
1-13 works both ways.

14. Models that are too short.

You wouldn't even have to worry about getting a response back in that instance though, because you as a photographer with height requirements, would probably check for those things before even sending a model a message.

That point is personal preference, not a reason a model (or photographer) wouldn't want to work with you.


Also- great list and thread!

VikyL wrote:
No.  It is nothing like prostituting yourself to turn down a trade for something you feel will not enhance your portfolio.  Nothing at all.

It doesn't apply all the time, but the "trade for clothed, pay me for nudes" often comes from models who I wouldn't trade with if they only did clothed.  The only chance to benefit MY portfolio is with nudes.

Drew Smith Photography wrote:
Nice list.

You might add - overbearing/demanding or creepy Profile bio.

... and of course lack of cookies.

lol...I am gluten intolerant so no cookies for me....grrr.

The main reason I can't afford to, nor want to do nudes for trade...is most of the time the nudes the photographers want to shoot are in their location and with gas almost $4 a gallon, not all models can afford to drive for hours to shoot for free. If they would offer gas once in a while, and I like their work, I consider it wholeheartedly, but right now, I get paid to shoot nudes so the work has to be amazing and I need help with the obvious cost of getting there......!

Art of the nude wrote:

It doesn't apply all the time, but the "trade for clothed, pay me for nudes" often comes from models who I wouldn't trade with if they only did clothed.  The only chance to benefit MY portfolio is with nudes.

I happily trade nudes with amazing photographers, because we get to shoot the clothed that I need, AND we both get to add nudes to our ports....nothing to lose there!

Antediluvian Design wrote:
TF is kinda like a finger in the bum when the good doctor tells you your prostate is okay. It is awkward and uncomfortable when you go home and have a couple of hundred photos of a bad amateur model's trout pouts and tacky wardrobe. In the end you are relieved to realize that it would probably hurt your portfolio to post them. Just think of it this way. They did you a huge favor not wanting to shoot with you in the first place.

Like the wiser models, I try to be selective in my trade shoots.  If I sit down afterward with 200 crappy shot, odds are very good that I made a mistake somewhere along the way.

That Italian Guy wrote:
I offer cookies... does that help?

Yeah, I find it's really all about how good your catering is these days.

Antediluvian Design wrote:
TF is kinda like a finger in the bum when the good doctor tells you your prostate is okay. It is awkward and uncomfortable when you go home and have a couple of hundred photos of a bad amateur model's trout pouts and tacky wardrobe. In the end you are relieved to realize that it would probably hurt your portfolio to post them. Just think of it this way. They did you a huge favor not wanting to shoot with you in the first place.

During a shoot how long does it take to figure out that something isn't working and takes steps to correct it.   Maybe the model doesn't realize she's making a certain type of face. Instead of just continuing to press the shutter in the hopes she'll stop wouldn't showing her on the camera LCD be a better option. 

As for tacky outfits, well the purpose of a shoot is for both parties to get images they can use.  Back when I use to shoot a wider range of work I'd ask newbie models to bring certain basic outfits with the plan that we'd shoot some she liked and some that I liked.  Then during the actual shoot I'd general limit the amount of shots to 25-40 per outfit.  Shoot 10 frames or so do a quick review repeat as needed then do an outfit change.  Generally this results in 1-3 portfolio usable shot per outfit, which is all you really need.

Herman Surkis wrote:
And this thread will likely not be read by the people who need to.

If it is they won't recognize themselves anyway.

c_h_r_i_s wrote:
"Why Do Models Refuse Trading w/ Me?" because I'm s c a r y.
One model drank 3/4 bottle of wine outside the studio before she came in she was so scared and nervous.... I drank what was left.


Boot camp for models, Gunnery Sergeant Chris Highway.

LMAO! I'm nervous before every single shoot, that's how I know I'm doing it right! But I can't imagine downing so much wine before a shoot! I'd fall off my high heels! lol

IDiivil wrote:
As a total aside, thanks to everyone! We've managed multiple pages without getting into a tiff and locking this thread up

That is because TIFF's belong in the Photographer forum. 

Creative Lion Images wrote:
...isn't that kinda like prostituting yourself?

I don't know, you tell me why you feel that when/if you hire a model it's like hiring a prostitute. We're all ears.

Koryn Locke wrote:

Sometimes, if you have a very good portfolio, shot by people with a strong skill set, then you shoot with someone who is a beginner or otherwise has a more limited skill set, they will blame the model, or accuse you of having lots of PhotoShop, when it's really just that they are still learning to shoot and can't photograph ANYONE very well yet.

YES! Whenever I see a 'model was nothing like her port' thread I always wonder if this is the cause.

TwentyStars wrote:
i have done trades, inc topless and nude and have had some amazing images back, but that was because the quality of work; i have no qualms about paying someone for a decent update but the quality really needs to be something special; i had to laugh when recently a photographer messaged me, saying he wanted to work with me for a project doing x y z, as he was inexperienced and wanted to improve his portfolio. We had settled on a pay amount, when he shot me a message saying 'this is what you're paying me, yes?' - sure, you're inexperienced, you want to shoot your concept, but you want me to pay you? erm....
It works both ways; with TF I expect to get something I need from it, be it concept or in some cases, networking, publishing etc... and only once out of the few TF shoots ive done have i not regretted it. Ive received terrible images, images with a huge watermark across the whole image, and directions from the photographer as to what he wanted to shoot. What did I learn from it? be very careful with who you trade with.

Yeah, I've had people with awful, eyeball-bleaching portfolios contact me before, say they want to work with me, absolutely must or their brains will explode, then ask me to pay them. It's pretty excellent.

That Italian Guy wrote:
I offer cookies... does that help?








Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

No milk?

IDiivil wrote:

Sorry, I did not originally make a "Why Photographers May Not Trade W/ You" post because I felt that, as just a model, it would upset photographers even more than only covering the model perspective if I talked from your POV.

Not sure if I responded to this, so here goes.

You are right that it might it might upset people. Everything upsets people.
But i think as a model you would upset less models saying why a photographer might not want to work with them.

As pointed out by various your OP pretty much covers both sides already. Someone could easily take the OP change a word here and there, add a couple of points and Bob's Your Uncle (strange 'saying' that ). Since you did all the original work it seems more appropriate that you make the slight changes, and take the credit for the effort. To just amend what you have already done so well, would seem like plagiarism to me.

IDiivil wrote:
As a total aside, thanks to everyone! We've managed multiple pages without getting into a tiff and locking this thread up

Congratulations!   

Michael Zahra wrote:
Good list. 

I didnt read allllll 6 pages of the subsequent thread.  I wonder if there's a list to educate models why some photographers turn them down for TF shoots...

I took the OP, flipped it a little, and there it is.
I would like the OP to add to it and make it hers, since it is hers.

terrysphotocountry wrote:

No milk?

No! no milk, but the blue pill. After this pill and a few cookies the flicks come out amazing. LOL

c_h_r_i_s wrote:
"Why Do Models Refuse Trading w/ Me?" because I'm s c a r y.
One model drank 3/4 bottle of wine outside the studio before she came in she was so scared and nervous.... I drank what was left.


Boot camp for models, Gunnery Sergeant Chris Highway.

LOL.