|
Forums >
Off-Topic Discussion >
Models who won't leave me the hell alone
Everybody feel free to chime in on this. Don't get hurt if I bust your balls about the comments you leave. I want a productive discussion about this but I know how some of you get. At the end of August I shot a dozen models TFP. I did this because I was leaving my studio and wanted to book build and maximize the rest of my time there. I shot from Aug 16-31st. I told all the models that I wasn't going to even start editing ANY of the photos before labor day weekend (the 2nd is my birthday AND we had to move out of the studio on the 31st). Also, I'm one of those photographers who doesn't like releasing unedited images. Without fail, on 2 separate occasions following two different shoots, I had models asking me for photos the very next day. They both said "Just create an online gallery so I can see them." "I had another photographer do it and it didn't take that long". I get texts or emails from these women, and others, on a daily basis pestering me for photos. Now I'm pretty patient, but some of these chics are downright rude in what they say to me. It pisses me off and I want to tell them off. However, that's unprofessional, and I know this, even though they are out of line. I've politely, and rudely, told them they would have to wait. I do have a life, I do have to work to make money and take care of the everyday b.s. that we all have to deal with, AND there's a line of people before you. Get in it. There's an expression that goes "You can have it cheap. You can have it fast. Or you can have it good. Pick two." That's incredibly apropos with regard to this situation. So I have 2 questions: Models: Why is it that some models don't respect or understand this? Photographers: I'm sure this has happened to most of you and what ways have you found to best combat it? There are going to be those of you who say- "What's the holdup?" 12 models / 4-5 looks each / 2-3 edits per look. Do the math = that's the holdup. or- "What's the big deal just make a gallery." The answer to this is #1 I never do this because I don't release unedited images. And #2 in the rare occasions when I do do this it's in an attempt at a collaborative effort with publication being the end goal. But it's not my habit. Also, doing that takes time too. So let's not address my failings as one human being with 2 only hands, let's try to stick to answering: Models: Why is it that some models don't respect or understand this? Photographers: I'm sure this has happened to most of you and what ways have you found to best combat it? Personally, I will be doing very little if any TFP because of this from this point forward and it will be with the cool models (and there have been a few of them thankfully), who have been patient and understanding. Sep 26 13 07:59 pm Link i dropbox a session gallery to the model after the shoot and let them pick their favorites. sometimes they choose right away but sometimes it takes them several weeks (or longer) which buys me time. i'd rather have models excited to get photos than not. i've had them texting me shortly after the shoot saying "are they done yet?" maybe just ignore them until you are ready to deliver? partly you brought this on yourself by shooting so many in a row (but you had your reasons). the good news is apparently they think the photos will be worthwhile. Sep 26 13 08:02 pm Link The answer to both your questions is because the models are jerks. If you told them - right after their shoot that you weren't going to be able to start editing their images until the beginning of sept they should have known better to start pesting you. I would have just told them that you aren't going to edit them until after labour day and that you'll message them/email them when you're done. If they pested you again after that - then I'd just ignore them. (If they messaged you recently, within the past couple of days - then that's understandable. Sometimes, after about two weeks of the shoot when I wasn't really told a turn around time for the photos I'll message the photographer just to see where they're at. Even then it's nothing more than a "Hey, just wondering how the editing is going") Sep 26 13 08:03 pm Link Miss Havisham Studios wrote: By doing this: Miss Havisham Studios wrote: Oh yeah, avoid at all costs "models" who consider doing bottle service a modeling gig. Sep 26 13 08:04 pm Link People hear what they want to hear, not what you say. Sep 26 13 08:08 pm Link Miss Havisham Studios wrote: I have had this happen only once. I told her if she didn't want to wait for the edited images as discussed I would sell her the copyright. Sep 26 13 08:09 pm Link Rudeness should move them to the back of the priority list! Sep 26 13 08:10 pm Link I tell people who haven't worked with me before how soon to expect their images, and I usually wind up delivering them sooner rather than later. That's how I combat "omg where are my photos?!" Sep 26 13 08:11 pm Link GER Photography wrote: and we have a winner Sep 26 13 08:13 pm Link Nope...not with models, but with a couple of very persistent MUAs! It is very irritating. Sep 26 13 08:13 pm Link I understand the reply, "Put things in writing..." brings out the armchair lawyers around here, but.... Obviously, there isn't a whole lot you can do about these models at this point. At the bottom of my model release, I have a section for 'details.' This is where I would specify things like: number of images to be received, approximate timeframes, etc. I understand that there is grey area everywhere, but it would be great if you could just answer these idiots with a simple, "Please refer to the document you received at the session that explains the particulars of our session." Of course it would be great if people remembered what is discussed, but a lot of people listen with only half an ear... IMHO Sep 26 13 08:17 pm Link Many women, especially the very attractive ones have always gotten everything they wanted their whole lives by guys who let them walk over them. These women are used to always getting their way. Not sure why your so surprised that would expect you as well to bend over backwards for them by giving them the prints even though you told them it may be awhile... Sep 26 13 08:19 pm Link Models don't care how many shoots you do. Models also don't care what line they are in. Models don't care about your day job. Models DO however care about when they will be getting the photos they worked for. Deadlines are what you answer back with. Even if you do 12 shoots in one DAY... You calculate your time frame for editing & retouching and give a delivery date to the model. It doesn't matter if it is October 1st 2013 or December 1st 2020. Give a delivery date to EACH model that works with your schedule. THEN when they call/txt/email you it is easy to go back to your list of models/shoots/dates and copy the date they were given. Yes you will still get models asking when.....You give them a stated WHEN...a DATE... not a bunch of rambling. "Oh I have a job and life so soon..." Sep 26 13 08:24 pm Link i expect photographers to take a while to get the photos to me, and it never bothers me because.... *drumroll* I have things to do!!  I have shoots almost daily nowadays. Some photographers get photos to me the next day, some next month. but i figured out a long time ago that i can't just sit around waiting for photos. I'm too busy thinking about what to wear or how to do my makeup for the next shoot, etc (you know, the things models SHOULD think about, rather than "where are my photos?? it's been like 2 hours already gosh! wahhhh") hopefully those models will stop bugging you and act like freaking professionals. or hopefully you work with better models ;] Sep 26 13 08:24 pm Link After a month, I ask. It's nice just to know "it will be ready by x date." That's cool. After 3 months, I call it a wash. Submission photos that take hours and a team and you wait over 4 months? Kind of sucks never seeing the finished product altogether. Doesn't happen hardly ever, but the photographers that are rude just by me asking? I hate that shit. Sep 26 13 08:27 pm Link Just tell them to stop their bitching, remind them that you told them the wait time, and that they need to be patient or (insert consequences here). Usually works for me. Once you tell someone that you won't deal with their shit and tell them you'll just delete everything and call it a wash they usually shut up and wait patiently. Sep 26 13 08:28 pm Link StevieSteve wrote: JUST women? ;] male models are just as bad Sep 26 13 08:34 pm Link You need to understand that Photoshoots are like Christmas for some people and they want to open their presents right away I've learned to send a few of the best shots within 48 hrs via email just to keep models happy Sep 26 13 08:35 pm Link I don't think it matters if it's TFP of Paid work. People expect the product in a timely manner. So it's nice to mention beforehand a turnaround time so you don't get harassed, or to explain your business and that there'll be a delay, what have you. Though not having the product when you think you should have it does not excuse rudeness. Sep 26 13 08:42 pm Link If their undies are in such a bundle I'll send images within 48 hours. Those images will include the bags under their eyes, facial hair, their zits, the blood red vessels in their eyes, etc. And don't even get me started on the body. If you want what I do and I shot you for free, STFU and wait for it. Sep 26 13 08:48 pm Link paying the model, even a modest fee, will take care of the problem. Sep 26 13 09:01 pm Link Miss Havisham Studios wrote: That *is* your own fault. "What's the big deal just make a gallery." The answer to this is #1 I never do this because I don't release unedited images. I set up an online album of rough proofs from which the TF participants can review but not download. They can screen-scrape a low-rez heavily watermarked rough proof, but no one's done that to my knowlege. Personally, I will be doing very little if any TFP because of this from this point forward and it will be with the cool models (and there have been a few of them thankfully), who have been patient and understanding. There you go. Dial back the workload to something more manageable and tolerable. Sep 26 13 09:03 pm Link Carle Photography wrote: This. Sep 26 13 09:03 pm Link I usually tell the models it will be at least 4 weeks that way if they get them in 2 weeks I look great. Sep 26 13 09:05 pm Link 1) Be super clear upfront before the shoot starts on the delivery of proofs/edited images. 2) You can watermark proofs and put them in a web gallery so the models can review images without any further effort from you. 3) If you consistently have issues with models and the basic terms of trade shoots, then have them sign a document that spells them out in writing. Sep 26 13 09:07 pm Link Garry k wrote: Absolutely, and it's understandable. Which is why I select one of the best images and fully process it within 12 hours of the shoot. By next morning the model has something to "wet their whistle" and they can use it in their portfolio if they want. Sep 26 13 09:08 pm Link Wow 12 models in succession. That's a lot of post work. I would create a schedule for completion that you can adhere to, with a deliverable date range (of no more than a week spread) for each proof sheet. Then proactively notify each model when they can expect their proof sheet. Let them know when you post their proof sheet, the amount of time they have to get back to you with their selects. When they get back to you do the same thing and let them know a date range on your calendar they can expect their finished images. You're going to be working on this for awhile. Sep 26 13 09:09 pm Link   Sep 26 13 10:00 pm Link StevieSteve wrote:
Sep 26 13 10:03 pm Link Miss Havisham Studios wrote: I had this happen to me one time. I shot 2 models at once. They came together and 45 minutes late. They disappeared after 15 minutes to go shoot with another photographer. The whole time they were with me, all they did is complain about how hot it was. Sep 26 13 10:10 pm Link Carle Photography wrote: +1 Sep 26 13 10:10 pm Link Lovely Day Media wrote: Wow. Talk about getting walked over. Sep 26 13 10:29 pm Link GER Photography wrote: That’s actually exactly what’s happened. I thought about doing the rudest models images first just so I wouldn’t have to hear from or see her face ever again. Then I thought, why should she be rewarded. She’s last. Then I thought… T-D-L wrote: I have been thinking about doing this with that one particularly rude model. Then I thought, “I’ll just edit the worst photos of her and send her those if she doesn’t lay off. DougBPhoto wrote: I LOVE this. “Here are 3 of our agreed upon edits from the shoot. If you continue to pester me about when I’m going to get you more images, the next image will cost you $25. Keep it up and the following one will be $50.” And so on and so on. That’s out of the box thinking and I dig it. StevieSteve wrote: I’ve been around plently of pretty women my entire life to know this. So it doesn’t surprise me. Not until I tell them straight up “NO” and they persist. Kirst Callahan wrote: Thank god for models that have things to do. Kiss. Zuri D wrote: Yeah you’re wrong. It matters. Zuri D wrote: Have been very communicative (with most) of these models, informing them of just that (the exception being this one particularly rude model whom I just ignore). ClimaxArt wrote: Then it would no longer be TF would it? No. It wouldn’t. Orca Bay Images wrote: Not even close to being helpful. matt-h2 wrote: Yes, I see your point. A delivery date 7 years out is the epitome of professionalism. Lovely Day Media wrote: Lol. Well said my friend. Well said. Sep 26 13 10:33 pm Link Orca Bay Images wrote: Miss Havisham Studios wrote: Way to cherrypick. I gave a fairly detailed explanation of how I deal with the situation -- stuff you could easily implement -- and you got one sentence out of it. Sep 26 13 10:40 pm Link Orca Bay Images wrote: No I processed all of what you wrote, I just found it all equally useless or already stated so there was no reason to repost the entirety of what you said. Sep 26 13 10:52 pm Link Miss Havisham Studios wrote: I used to print at a rental darkroom, and one of the employees would joke that he was going to charge folks a nuisance fee. Sep 26 13 10:55 pm Link I wish I was pretty enough to get whatever I wanted from men. I have to actually give them something in return before I can even get noticed. Maybe I should dry my hair blonde and get triple D boobs /troll Sep 27 13 01:12 am Link StevieSteve wrote: Oh, please ply us with anecdotal evidence to support this claim. I'm riveted. Sep 27 13 06:53 am Link all_names_are_taken wrote: I believe it. Sep 27 13 06:55 am Link StevieSteve wrote: It's just given that a woman that is attractive will automatically be a demanding bitch. Sep 27 13 07:06 am Link |
