|
Forums >
Model Colloquy >
Does open leg = pornography?
Is what we do in our art nude work pornography? What is wrong with porn? Do other models feel this pressure to perform hotter during shoots? Should we charge more? Leading on from my first ever forum post 'Open leg' I can't help but ask these questions. In that post I related experiencing that moment when an art nude photographer asked: 'Could you open your legs please' ? I'm uninhibited and did as requested and felt no shame. In fact I felt a little turned on by the idea of this display. It wasn't only sexy feelings it gave me either, it was wonder. I wanted to show and celebrate an example of what is really a miracle of biological design. The gates through which every living person passes with the exception of those who were 'from their mother's womb untimely ripped'.The focus point of male sexual feelings, with the exception of gay men and those with a fetish. MM puts a limit on what can be shown in our portfolios but for girls in the field it falls to us to uphold this limit. We are in the firing line. 'Shoot' is such an appropriate word. I love doing Art nude and will push past the envelope of that category by opening my legs but remain unsure how I feel about hotter poses being distributed around the internet and what price I should ask for this. I'm just a beginner feeling my way here and need help from other models and photographers of the nude to work through this. To understand the model's feelings of shame and guilt or liberation and to help me to explore how far I should go. What are the dangers? What are the rewards? Pornography : Printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings. Aug 11 14 11:11 pm Link In most peoples minds...YES. It is unfortunate, but there it is. And a major problem with the net, is that once out there, it is out there forever. So do not do any poses that you would not want your dad, or your kids, or your kids friends to see. If it is someone you can trust (and is there anyone?) then do whatever you enjoy. Aug 11 14 11:44 pm Link Miss 5 11 wrote: I vote for keeping your rates the same, and going further or pulling back your inhibitions depending on the concept. As far as the hotter poses being on the internet, that's your call. Assume that they will be seen and discovered by everyone. And interpreted differently by everyone. Porn, Art, etc. Miss 5 11 wrote: Do what you love, as long as it's your choice Miss 5 11 wrote: Don't show for the money, show for the art/concept. Don't lose sight of why you're choosing to push the envelope. Aug 12 14 12:57 am Link CHAD ALAN wrote: Miss 5 11 wrote: I vote for keeping your rates the same, and going further or pulling back your inhibitions depending on the concept. As far as the hotter poses being on the internet, that's your call. Assume that they will be seen and discovered by everyone. And interpreted differently by everyone. Porn, Art, etc. Miss 5 11 wrote: Do what you love, as long as it's your choice Ok, that too. Aug 12 14 01:41 am Link If at an art nude shoot a photographer asks you to open your legs, it depends on the context but that could be seen as level pushing. Open leg shots can be classed as adult and models charge more for those levels. Obviously it's entirely up to you what you do, as long as you feel comfortable. Aug 12 14 01:47 am Link I would not say that all open leg shots are porno ... it depends on the specific situation and theme. Personally, I like to leave something to the viewer's imagination. Aug 12 14 03:52 am Link To me it is just part of a woman's body like any other part. I guess what makes a difference is context. Aug 12 14 04:04 am Link Of course not. However while it may not be pornographic it still may be in poor taste. Aug 12 14 04:12 am Link Well, you just created an excellent self-marketing thread. Aug 12 14 04:12 am Link Miss 5 11 wrote: By definition, it's about intent. You will be judged by whatever the person viewing the image believes the intent was. Aug 12 14 04:32 am Link Risen Phoenix Photo wrote: Yep, no argument there.. Aug 12 14 04:45 am Link CHAD ALAN wrote: Miss 5 11 wrote: I vote for keeping your rates the same, and going further or pulling back your inhibitions depending on the concept. As far as the hotter poses being on the internet, that's your call. Assume that they will be seen and discovered by everyone. And interpreted differently by everyone. Porn, Art, etc. I agree with this well stated reply. Aug 12 14 08:25 am Link Koryn wrote: I agree Koryn, Aug 12 14 08:27 am Link I have several photo of open leg. You tell me whether you think they are pornography or not. Use that as your guide. Personally, I think women have been subordinated by the false morals of society. I say show what you want and leave it at that. Aug 12 14 08:44 am Link Not I'm my opinion, unless you are in the act of I never considered it so. That being said there are people who feel any nudity is, especially in the US. Now if you were also doing something extremely violent nobody would think twice, but show a breast and SHTF here. Aug 12 14 08:52 am Link As an artist, I guess you could say that I'm a little prudish, but I also have an open mind about "open leg" photos/paintings. I do not paint open leg female figure paintings. It is just not my taste. However, I do not see anything wrong with it, or view it as pornography, as long as it is meant to be artistic and not sexual (and I know that statement can have it's own forum about what is considered "sexual"). I will say that from an art history standpoint, there has always been an unfair double standard when it comes to painting, or sculpting sexual organs! Look at Michelangelo's "David". his penis is out there for all to see! No hiding anything. Now, look at Agustus St. Gauden's famous female sculpture " Diana", (which stood on the top of Gran Central Station for years (back in the early 1900's). Her vagina is smoothed over, with no indication of hair or no inclination that it is a vagina. That's just the way art has been shown for centuries. Do I agree with art history? No way. I say "Do what you believe in and what makes you feel good! I won't complain!  Aug 12 14 09:14 am Link Image my post was about has been removed so I'm deleting the post. Cheers! Noah Aug 12 14 10:07 am Link Open leg can work at an artistic level but it really depends on the viewer's perception. One of my experiences: halfway through an art nude dance shoot a photographer asked me to open my legs, pout and look suggestively at the camera. I refused as I thought it was tacky. As long as the context is made clear (preferably prior to the shoot) and you feel comfortable, don't let anything stop you. Make sure you are firm and confident about the type of shots you will or won't do. Aug 12 14 11:10 am Link No. Not necessarily. I consider it erotic when coming up with a rate. Erotic artistic is amazing. Unfortunately a lot of photographers wanting spread legs are just looking to get a grizzy. However it isn't porn unless its intentions are for porn. Spread leg does cross over to Erotic and is worth a higher price. Aug 12 14 11:11 am Link I don't believe for a second you don't know the risks or the rewards. I also don't think you know what an "art nude" really is either. Aug 12 14 12:11 pm Link Whether or not it's porn depends on the state of mind of the participants. Often that state of mind will translate into the image and that image will get a response commensurate with the state of mind of the observer. So no cut and dried definition is possible, because we do not have concepts for certain states of mind. It's no use going back to the pictorial imagery of yore. For example, a gargoyle indicates a certain state of mind. If you gave the gargoyle a name, and everyone understood what the name signified, then you might be able to get a sense of what was being pointed to, but that's no good in age of abstraction. People would just point at you and call you names. Anyhow, you seem to be fairly composed and thoughtful. There can't be much doubt that your posts are going to arouse the interest of no small number of photographers. I'd up the rates until the pips squeak if I were you. Aug 12 14 01:44 pm Link No Aug 12 14 01:54 pm Link Porn is porn Open legs are just open legs It's not porn unless you have a 8-12 inch dong going inside one of your holes Aug 12 14 04:37 pm Link Danielle Reid wrote: Thanks! I didn't know that. Aug 12 14 04:40 pm Link "And a major problem with the net, is that once out there, it is out there forever." Well it may be out there forever, but try to find it when you need it...like lost the name, alias, of the model, photographer, site, date, etc. In this day and age there is too much "out there" to sort through let alone keep track of. Aug 12 14 04:43 pm Link It really depends on the context of the shot or pose is it meant to portray vulnerability or sexuality it's a fine line. Aug 12 14 04:47 pm Link depends on which leg is open Aug 12 14 04:55 pm Link To me its similar to the question regarding photography of erect penises. Does an erection automatically = pornography? In my mind it does not. While they may be viewed as erotic (erect penises, spread leg shots) I believe its the intent behind the shot that causes it to be pornographic, or not. Everyone will view it differently, just as some people see a nipple and scream "Porn!" Do what you enjoy and live by your code of morals and fuck the rest. Aug 12 14 04:55 pm Link The average person thinks even the most innocent nude art is pornography, I gave up worrying about what these sort of people think a long time ago. In fact I am happy if someone gets pissed off, that means I have truly created "art". As for your rates, you should set a rate where you are able to find work in your market, and pose however you are comfortable, without being motivated by money. "Stripper rates" where models charge more depending on how far they are willing to go (topless, nude, etc) is tacky and is frowned upon by most photographers. Aug 12 14 05:01 pm Link "stripper Rates"  I have only seen or heard that term used on MM. I have never heard a photographer use it. I have however heard the term Erotic for rates that will mean open legs. I sometimes think MM peeps get a little upset if they cant get more for less. Just so you know it is a direct insult to models to use terms such as "Stripper Rates". OP don't pay attention to the few who get so angry and don't understand why a model would charge more for Erotic than playboy style nude. I have never nor have I ever met a model that didn't charge more for Erotic works than for milder works. Its like when photographers say they want a milder PlayBoy style then push you to do more penthouse- hustler style and get upset when a model says its not what was negotiated. And those are the only ones that frown on charging more for erotic works. Good photographers actually respect a models rate increase for Erotic works. They do not frown on it at all and do understand it fully. They will ask you right upfront what your rates for more erotic style shoot would be. Don't let people bully you and try and tell you this and that is looked down on by photographers. Pure bullshit. This is freelance and everybody does it a little different and respects the differences of how others do it. There are no industry standards. Nothing is looked down on as a standard either. Its all about what can become a agreement between 2 people to put together a collaboration. PS. The only thing I was ever looked down on for was having a MM account. I almost lost my union contract over it. Aug 12 14 06:29 pm Link Caitin Bre wrote: While I have never used the term to a model's face, I have used it. Most recently, in describing a model who had a rate for fully clothed, and a (higher) rate for lingerie, and a (higher) rate for topless, and a (higher) rate for implied, and a (higher) rate for full nudes, and ... Aug 12 14 07:13 pm Link OP, when are you coming to LA?  Aug 12 14 07:26 pm Link I'm going to have stripper rates for models. The more skin I see, the more I charge. Retouching all that skin is a pain in my butt. Aug 12 14 08:01 pm Link BlueMoonPics wrote: I once had a model with bed bug bites. Aug 12 14 08:12 pm Link Gene Cannon wrote: You haven't seen me open my legs yet! Aug 12 14 08:43 pm Link Not always, but pornography almost always = open leg Aug 12 14 09:02 pm Link In the same way that some will view a glass of water as half empty and some will see it as half filled, the same will be true with open leg poses. Some will see the pose as porn, while others will see art. Aug 12 14 09:10 pm Link Caitin Bre wrote: I suspect that is because you don't go to a lot of strip clubs Bare Essential Photos wrote: Well damn it; now I have to redo all my estimates for food photography based on how much food is showing. Or I just all all in and shoot food porn like unfrosted cakes, undressed salad, nakkid veggies Aug 12 14 09:16 pm Link This is not a marketing stunt by me. Apart from Rose and Caitin model responses to this post have been hostile. On the other hand responses from photographers have been thoughtful and helped me think through this issue. Aug 12 14 11:38 pm Link Do what you like! It's your choice. Just don't share the you got hot with my wife! Lmao  Aug 12 14 11:52 pm Link |
