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"You can't shoot here!"
In the past I have been kicked out of places like parking garages, office buildings and parks (late at night) when doing street and architecture photography. Today though I was shooting outside at a hotel in Miami when a hotel staff member came up to me and my model and told me that we could not shoot on the hotel property. I politely questioned why and was told that "professional photos" were not allowed without a permit. I am a guest at the hotel and just yesterday I shot with a model here and the staff were even giving us suggestions of places around the property to shoot. This afternoon not so much. I had several other shoots lined up for this week but now I feel like I should cancel them or move them somewhere off property. The problem is on short notice, I don't have another location. Is this common for hotels to prohibit "professional photography" at their locations? I have been doing this for years with out ever having an issue. Edit and Update: For those who haven't had a chance to read through the thread let me clarify a few things. This shoot was a TF shoot for the models portfolio and mine, not a professional assignment or paid gig. Also, we were being fairly discreet. No reflector, no flash, no off camera lighting etc. I was only using my camera and carrying a small bag with an extra lens. As many have pointed out, my port has lingerie and nudity, but we were not shooting anything suggestive. Just casual fashion looks. I guess my main frustration is that if I had been using a point and shoot or iphone like the rest of the tourists and families they would not have said anything. But because I was using a DSLR I was asked to stop. On another note I checked with the hotel again today to see what their policy is on photography on the premises. I was told today that as long as I am a guest I am welcome to photograph anywhere on the property with whoever I like. I told them about what happened yesterday and they apologized and said if I ran into anymore issues to contact the front desk. Sep 16 14 07:09 pm Link The manager, VP or someone else important was probably there so you got the book, so to speak. In Washington, DC most locations are arbitrarily off limits, so I got pretty used to scouting backup locations. You might want to do this also. Sep 16 14 07:15 pm Link ADKC Photography wrote: Yes, it is common. Sep 16 14 07:18 pm Link Private Property . Sep 16 14 07:30 pm Link Go and ask for permission but understand that if they feel its for a professional purpose they may say no. Don't mention that you were allowed to do it at first because that may get the person who let you get reprimanded. The hotel may have concerns over insurance and what the images may be used for. Start scouting around for other locations. A few tips. In general you want to look like a couple rather then a pro shooting a model. No tripods. No stands for reflectors, etc. If a security person or even what may seem to be a casual observer asks what the photos are for. Say its for a family album or again you're a couple. Sep 16 14 07:30 pm Link I think thats why I got away with it yesterday. Yesterday it was just the model and myself. Today the model had an escort following us around. I don't mind escorts at all especially when they hold equipment and stuff  Anyway, the security guys asked what we were talking the photos for and I said we were just taking some fun pictures for her Facebook or something simple like that. He looked at my camera and then pointed at my bag and said, "Thats a pro camera and you have a camera bag, so you can't shoot here. You need a permit." I understand from a marketing standpoint the hotel wants to control their "image" but seriously wouldn't they prefer pictures out there taken by someone with a bit skill and nice equipment over someone just snapping pics for instagram with their iphone? I guess I will be looking into new locations while traveling Sep 16 14 07:48 pm Link ADKC Photography wrote: Usually if there's private property involved, it's always best to ask first. Also, offer to send them some photos afterwards if they're interested. Some places will say yes, some no, but otherwise it just normally depends! Sep 16 14 07:51 pm Link ADKC Photography wrote: yep thats common if you are a guest or not if you are on their property they can prohibit you shooting there Sep 16 14 08:00 pm Link The other day I was shooting in this huge field in front of a building. https://www.urbaninsight.com/sites/all/ … lshire.png You can't see the entire field but it pretty much looks like a park. I had shot there once before, just me, the model, and my camera, no other equipment. Anyway, nobody bothered me. I walk by there all the time and see teenagers riding around in their skateboards and filming themselves doing tricks, I've seen people play with their dogs there, having a picnic, etc. Anyway, the other day i went there to shoot again but this time i took out my reflector. 10 minutes later a security guard came over, informed us that it's private property, and asked us to leave. I told the guard about what I have seen go on in the field and she told me that those people must have had permits then (she really expected me to believe that someone would pay to walk their dogs there, have a picnic, etc...). Anyway, I left. Had I not taken out the reflector, they probably wouldn't have said anything but since I did, they stopped me. Here in LA though it seems like you can't shoot anything without getting yelled at by someone. It doesn't matter if you're on the sidewalk, you will still get yelled at. The only way I can shoot now, without getting a permit, is to only use my camera and that's it so that's what I do now which sucks. I wish I could at least use my reflector. Sep 16 14 08:01 pm Link I know private property might be an issue, but I have shot a park in Broward Florida for years and never had an issue until recently, when I was informed I need a permit to shoot in a public state park. Sep 16 14 08:03 pm Link ADKC Photography wrote: Yep. I shoot a lot on location and that's part of why I don't like escorts. I had a small group shoot in South Padre, TX. a while ago. I and a second shooter invited four models to shoot and they all brought escorts. One model brought two friends. We looked like a small caravan as we drove from place to place to shoot. Luckily we didn't attract any attention but it was ridiculous that these ladies brought friends and escorts. Tell the escort where you plan to shoot but hanging out and your bag and camera all told the security person what you might be up too. Sep 16 14 08:04 pm Link A hotel is private property so they can tell you no photography if they are so inclined. You need to realize that the primary reason hotels rent rooms is for people to sleep, not to conduct photo shoots. I looked at your port and you do shoot nudes. It's understandable that a hotel might not want pictures of nude people published if their rooms can be clearly identified, particularly, if it's a family oriented hotel. Sep 16 14 08:10 pm Link ADKC Photography wrote: It has nothing to do with your skills. They would prefer that the only pictures that are taken are pictures that the hotel has commissioned and feels would fit their image if published. They also want to maintain control over the images which would be true if the images were taken by an employee but would not be true if you take them. Sep 16 14 08:15 pm Link Alexander please review this information graciously provided by the ACLU... Every issue has at least several sides... the private property owner has a compelling need to assure their ability to conduct business in a manner which they deem appropriate... thus have the absolute right to request you to cease and desist if they feel you are an infringement to their ability to serve their clientele... That said, public space is another matter entirely... However I've complied with the Department of Natural Resources of the State of Maryland when I shoot in their parks... they require a permit which involves providing proof of professional liability insurance and a head count of participants involved... It is a good thing since the park rangers assist in crowd management... btw, they were only charging $25 and allowed reserving an alternate "rain date"... the entire process is EZ and they are very cordial to deal with... Also have colleagues in other major cities who have informed me that typically the moment you place a light stand on a public sidewalk you better have a permit... which in NYC or LA it is my understanding aren't cheap... Bottom Line? Having friends and/or associates with private property can go a long way to circumventing all the above issues... Hope this helps... Sep 16 14 08:28 pm Link Top Gun Digital wrote: Thanks for the comments. I get the private property thing, I guess I have just never had a hotel who cared. Back in Kansas City a few of the local public parks have a "Photography Permit Policy." I totally understand that most hotels would not be super excited or care to have any of my pictures from inside the rooms. I'm not planing on submitting these anywhere or anything other than my portfolio and the models. Today we were outside, around the pool and lobby area we were all well clothed. I never post the hotel name or shots with the hotel logo visible when posting photos either. Sep 16 14 08:33 pm Link I think asking for permission in advance would be better than having a hotel manager call the police to have you arrested for trespassing. Look at it this way, how would you feel if a photographer starting shooting a model on your front lawn because he thought it was a nice location without asking your permission in advance. Sep 16 14 08:40 pm Link check beforehand...getting dicey with locations.....some let point and shooters, charge for a pro look shoot...everyone wants to make a buck...funniest for me was a tree and landscape farm I went to when the wife wanted to do a pond in the yard...while there, I thought there were some interesting landscape/model shots, inquired about doing it, they wanted $120 Sep 16 14 08:47 pm Link Top Gun Digital wrote: Good point. No sense getting my equipment confiscated when I can make a simple request. I am also, fairly certain I would not fair well in a Miami cell. Thanks for the advice. Sep 16 14 08:53 pm Link ADKC Photography wrote: And we are talking private property here, for the most part. Sep 16 14 09:24 pm Link In general, a hotel's common areas, areas where any guest or visitor can access, are not off limits to photographers, as long as their shoots do not put the hotel in a compromising position, and do not interfere or upset other guests or visitors. It is good manners to ask the hotel front desk manager, prior to the shoot, what the hotels policy is regarding photography. Setting up lights, having an assistant hold reflectors, plugging into wall outlets, even using on-camera flash, can be considered interfering. Any form of nudity, any sexually suggestive posing, lingerie or bikini, can also be considered to put the hotel in a compromising position. Having a room does not extend any protection, and even shooting in a room, for example, nude or adult shoots, can result in being expelled from the hotel. Sep 16 14 09:37 pm Link Herman Surkis wrote: +1 Sep 16 14 09:41 pm Link Apollo Photos wrote: I have always tried to be discreet. No suggestive looks or wardrobe, no flash, no reflector and no lighting while shooting in lobbies, pools, etc. I do use lighting and flash some inside the rooms but everything comes inside in a suitcase and leaves in a suitcase. Sep 16 14 09:52 pm Link Whenever I shoot a model in and around a hotel I'm very aware that at any moment someone from the hotel staff may tell me I'm not allowed to do a photo shoot there and be asked to leave. Therefore, I always try to make it look like the model and I are simply tourists taking casual snapshots by not shooting using any lights or reflectors and by using a very small camera body and lens, typically a small mirrorless camera like a Sony NEX or Sony A7R. I also try to keep moving and not linger in one spot for more than just a few clicks of the shutter. So far I've never been questioned, even while shooting the model in the hotel lobby right in front of the hotel staff. Sep 16 14 10:25 pm Link ADKC Photography wrote: The easiest way and the fastest way is to call ahead at get permission. Once i have done that I never had an issue with shooting on location on private property. It is faster and easier and you can bring the gear you need without hassle. Sep 17 14 01:44 am Link Planet 8 Photography wrote: Broward County is the home to a lot of law enforcement who make shit up on the fly. Meaning that there is no such law. Sep 17 14 04:20 am Link One thing not mentioned is that when you shoot a privately held building like a Hotel that is clearly identifiable in the image, you can run into a release issue if you want to sell the print. That's because they own the image of their property. Of course...this doesn't hold for news related issues...but private property owners can also have the media arrested for tresspass. I think this asking permission thing has to be taken on a case by case basis. I've done dozens of hotel room nude shoots. Never have I been asked by management what I am doing as long as I stay in the room. And unless they have illegally put video cameras in the room, they don't know what is going on. About all there is to worry about is not making noise and disturbing someone. The best excuse to use when shooting outside is to say it is for a photography class...and name a local art school. This satisfies the (1) non-commercial requirement, and (2) the reason for the more sophisticated gear. You can also say you are a serious hobbiest photographing a niece, or other family-related member. The key is to keep a low profile. As far as equipment being confiscated, it cannot be legally done except by a law enforcement person, and only then if it is seized as evidence of a CRIME. Lack of a permit citation is an infraction...like a traffic ticket, and you don't get your car confiscated for a normal parking or traffic violation. If a law enforcement person tries to confiscate gear, the photographer needs to ask what law/statute in the State's criminal code was violated? It is a US Constitutional guarantee that the government can't seize property without due process of law...which means a court proceeding. The only relevant exception is evidence of a crime. If they ignor this, then they have opened themselves up to a Section 1983 civil rights claim in Federal Court. The city attorneys will be pissed. Sep 17 14 05:11 am Link ADKC Photography wrote: Has it occurred to you that perhaps the owners/managers do not want images that don't align with their personal brand done on their property? Sep 17 14 05:29 am Link @leighthenubian (above) OP is a paying customer at the hotel where he wants to shoot, at least that is the way I understand it. Usually the facilities of a hotel are open for the enjoyment of their paying customers...be it the pool, exercise room, restaurant, etc. And the hotel would certainly have insurance for its customers and guests. They would be foolish not to. And their customers always take photos of family members...so this brand stuff doesn't apply...especially with what is likely to be a close crop beauty shot. To answer OP's question...what should you do..? It depends upon how much the hotel already knows about you. Can you say you are taking photos of your niece's wedding party attendants? Can you bring things down to a personal level...rather than a professional one? Lying is typically not a good thing...but sometimes you have to stretch the truth a bit...especially if you aren't really causing any harm to anyone. After all...you are a customer at the hotel and their facilities are open to you in other areas. I suspect they have a pool, an exercise room, etc.? The whole facility is for the comfort of the guests. What you need to do is figure out how you can stay a normal customer and still do what you want. No one really wants to hassle you...they just have a job to do. And if you can show a business card for the company you work for...to show you aren't a pro, even better. It's like...hey...I'm in from _____, and I'm meeting my niece and her friend. Would it be OK if I took a few photos outside? Next day when you have a new model...my niece wanted me to photograph another one of her friends, etc. Sep 17 14 05:34 am Link David Stone Imaging wrote: Listen...lol Sep 17 14 05:48 am Link Shoot in your hotel room, you have every right to do so without any one from the hotel saying otherwise. As a south florida resident I have tried to shoot at hotels here in town several times. What I have found is that when we as professionals come out with our bags and off camera lights we create a spectacle in front of the other guests. Especially true if the model is attractive and exponentially true if the model is in a swimsuit. It becomes a nuisance to other guests (especially at the pool where they want to relax) who think they may get filmed, mothers not wanting their sons ogling, and small crowds that may form who will be snapping with their phones. You also must consider that hotels do charge for photographic rights, and it's their right to enforce that policy. Don't bust the security guards chops, they are only doing as they are told. However you can work within the hotels rules, they want guests to take pics and enjoy themselves and they can't say what kind of camera you can travel with. So walk around with your model, carry just one camera /lens on your shoulder like a tourist would. Shoot with natural light or with just a simple attached speed light. Stop at a given location, snap a few and then walk to another spot. Keep moving, carry light and you will have no problem. You can always go back to your room to change lens. You should be able to scout out locations in advance when you check in and know what lens you need where. May the force be with you. Sep 17 14 06:00 am Link Yes it's quite common to not allow professional photography at private locations without prior approval. Being a guest does not allow you to use their facilities for professional use. I take it you're referring to selling images from these shoots? If so, you should have permission in writing. Most private and some public locations will require a copy of your insurance to make sure you're covered for any liability and to sign a letter of indemnity to clear them of any liabilities related to your activities on their premises. And there is the small matter of paying them a location/usage fee. These are standard, basic considerations when shooting on location. Sep 17 14 06:27 am Link Yes, it is common for everyone on the planet to now want to gouge you, for fees to shoot on their property. That includes office buildings, shopping centers, developments, hotels, and all the rest. Get used to it.......it isn't going away. Amateur snapshots are fine, in those places.......but if you look remotely like a pro, you will be confronted, and either barred altogether, or you will be charged a fee to shoot. So, if you want to try and get away with shooting there.......no tripods, reflectors, or other "pro" gear........just a 35mm camera with fill flash from the on camera flash. Nothing else. As a location specialist, I have been dealing with these issues for years. Sep 17 14 06:39 am Link KMP wrote: qft - there's ya problem. If the property gives you permission to shoot and someone gets hurt it could open them up for litigation. From experience, calling around to ask permission is often denied. My SOP is to carry as little equipment as possible. A tripod is a lightning rod for confrontation. Try to look like an amateur. Don't wear a photography vest or related T-shirt and don't carry something which looks like a camera equipment bag. Sep 17 14 06:47 am Link Its not smart to assume a major hotel in Miami, NYC, or LA will automatically let you shoot on their property. It is very common for fancy hotels in big markets to restrict photography. They have no idea who you are as a photographer or the quality of your work because you booked your stay as a guest. Shooting with anymore people than 1 model will always draw attention. You can try to talk to the manager, or even threaten to change hotels, but it probably won't work. I would talk with other local photographers to try to find locations in or near Miami that will work for your future shoots. Sep 17 14 06:52 am Link You got to learn how to play the game.... You should ask the manager if you could shoot there .... In Miami they wanna / need to make money - therefore you suggest that if you shoot alot - you wil send them clients to stay there for your future shoots. If they don't bite let them know there are other places to stay in Miami.Easy come easy go. Yes you do need a permit for somethings to shoot .....just got to time it right. Sep 17 14 06:54 am Link ADKC Photography wrote: This is why you talk to a manager or the store/hotel's GM. The lowly employee may very well be following rules & regulations but is to far down on the totem pole to make either a common sense decision or do an override*. Sep 17 14 06:56 am Link The Don Mon wrote: I am from down there - used to shoot a lot on the beaches/parks/hotels etc I travel light - shoot early - or late. Sep 17 14 06:57 am Link I shoot in hotel properties quite a bit and I have never been booted. I did get booted at an amusement park in Seattle once but that it it. The model was fully clothed, it was a fashion shoot. On the other hand I always go up to the bell boy or concierge and tell them I am shooting and slip them $20. Sometimes they show me good places or help me out but usually they just say have fun and if someone asks tell them to talk to me. Now if you are going to get them naked (the models) in public settings that can be a lot trickier if not downright impossible. Conrad Hilton doesn't want boobies in front of his logo. Paris didn't get that memo. Sep 17 14 07:02 am Link Does Google maps pay for permits or ask permissions? Sep 17 14 07:39 am Link I don't expect any kind of special photography rights just because I'm a guest. I understand the hotels are doing their best to keep up their brand image. I know that they do not not know what my work is like and could be concerned that their hotel might be shown in a negative way. Pretty much though all the advice that everyone has given on not getting caught was what we were doing. I did have a small camera bag, (that I will now not leave behind) with me but it looked like a bag that any normal tourist might have. I didn't have a reflector, off-camera flash, lighting equipment, or any thing else. I was in khakis and a T-shirt shooting with a 40 mm lens, and she was in a casual outfit with Jean shorts and a loosefitting shirt. When they asked what we were doing I gave a casual response that we were friends and she wanted to take some fun pictures for her Facebook. As others have said I do my best to make sure that you cannot obviously tell what hotel the photographs are being taken out. No names, logos, or distinguishing features. Sep 17 14 07:44 am Link |
