Photographer
Chuckarelei
Posts: 11271
Seattle, Washington, US
Study, practice, work hard, get good. Soon they will come knocking on your door.
The beauty of MM here is you get to study lots of great creative work here with ease.
Photographer
Joseph William
Posts: 2039
Chicago, Illinois, US
IN Images of Notoriety wrote:
Even if you can't afford to pay the rates that some of the model's on this site post in their ports, if you can afford to pay inexperienced models more modestly, that is a good way to get practice and expand your portfolio. You'll get a lot of flakes using that approach, and I'm sure there is some professional model who is going to come along and say that your port would benefit more from paying her rate for one shoot, compared with paying ten different newbies $20/hr. And she might be right. I don't really want to start that argument in here. My point is that, for every one photographer with an ounce of talent and a little bit of cash in their pocket, there are, like, 500 wannabe models within 10 square miles in most metropolitan markets. There will be lots of flakes, so it is just a numbers game,
IoN This is the approach I used when I started here. If you have unlimited funds you may get further faster by paying hundreds of dollars per shoot. If you don't have tons of money put up casting calls offering gas money, shooting a lot is more important than getting great shots at this point.
The advice to shoot friends and family is good but you are asking how to get MM models to work with you.
Shoot with local models, be nice, get the models good pictures, build a reputation.
Photographer
Joseph William
Posts: 2039
Chicago, Illinois, US
Also don't keep track of how many models you contact. Ten is not a lot.
Model
Caitin Bre
Posts: 2687
Apache Junction, Arizona, US
Marin Photography NYC wrote:
+1
Hiring an experienced model isn't going to teach you anything unless she can shoot too...Having her as a reference is a benefit.
The main benefit of an experienced model is not having to pose her. She isn't going to adjust your lights, she isn't going to show you how to shoot her, she's just going to pose.......but it's your money....... Yes And:
He could hire a model that is experienced and works both sides of the camera. He can negotiate a deal with that model that will show him how to for both sides.
I have been doing this for some time now and I know their are other models that do the same. You just have to find them.
edit: I must ad however that you 1st have to know and see what is good and what isn't. Like if you can't see how a picture with all the highlights blown out makes it look bad, and you find it acceptable. Then you wont be able to see where you need to improve on exposure. I think that many will understand what I am trying to say on this.
Photographer
IN Images of Notoriety
Posts: 58
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
A few more suggestions:
1) If you are able to offer inexperienced models some kind of compensation, you may also want to place an ad on Craigslist to that effect.
2) Have some business cards created, and give them out to photogenic people you meet in your day to day life.
3) Post a self-portrait or a photograph of you for public viewing in your portfolio.
4) Welcome escorts in your photographer profile. They are a total hassle, but when you are just getting started, if you allow them on your shoots, you will attract a lot more models, and most of them won't end up bringing a chaperone.
Good luck!
IoN
Photographer
Twilight Savant
Posts: 3
Friday Harbor, Washington, US
I do work for the gun industry and do the photography for a firearms magazine, women's firearm training school and a firearms manufacturer. Models are not necessarily put off and in fact many are attracted to adding a gun as a prop to their portfolio. That being said, safety, experience, and your firearm background are very important if you want to "shoot" photos of models with guns.
Think about this, you are asking for a woman to come to your studio or location, to meet a man she does not know, with wardrobe or even lack of it, knowing that you will have one or more firearms on hand. Even the most adventurous of models will think hard about that one.
List references, credentials, and photos that demonstrate the props you use. I always, always put the emphasis on my portfolio on the model, the prop is just that... a prop. Safety is always first with any prop that can injure the model or photographer, everyone needs to make sure the chamber is clear, no live ammo on the the set, and please no fingers in the trigger unless the client specifically calls for it. Best of success to you. - Rick
Photographer
KelliePics
Posts: 29
Middletown, New York, US
Dear Booker - We have two issues here. They are like so:
(1) The difficulty of getting models, no matter how great you are or can be
(2) Your port, does it attract models to work with you?
Answers:
(1) No matter who you are, no matter how good, you will have to contact MANY models before you find one. I contact around 50 males all over the U.S. before I can fine ONE to consent to PAID WORK. It is VERY HARD to find models, especially good or beautiful ones. If you will take ANYONE or almost anyone, it would be easier. So mine is tough as I only seek the greatest beauties. You will have to try harder and perhaps a bigger net, you might have to pay or pay expenses. Worth the money to get started.
(2) Your port is a TOTAL TURN OFF TO MODELS. Why? Because they have NO IDEA how you would photograph them or how they would look, as you have presented no work here that looks like you could REPRESENT PROPERLY A PROFESSIONAL OR ASPIRING MODEL.
Your port looks like you took family photos. They look dorky, amateurish and non artistic. No one wants to be seen, as a model, the way you have portrayed these people.
Obviously you are starting out, learning. My advice is this: Find a person or persons who is a friend and shoot them for hours on end. Study the photos to see what works. Try, try harder. Cut out all the background and clutter. You have way too much background, concentrate on the models. Stop all that smiling. Have them turn this way or that, left, right, up, down. Frame them better, COMPOSITION. Notice everything in the picture. You are doing EVERYTHING WRONG.
So if you cannot find a friend to pose for you for free, then you will just have to offer money, it seems to me. Save your pennies.
Do not resent my words. You wanted help - I helped. This will hurt a little while, the pain will go away, and you will get better. Give yourself two years to get good.
Photographer
JAE
Posts: 2207
West Chester, Pennsylvania, US
Hey neighbor! As others have said, meetups or events can be a good way to get started. Paying a model a little bit may also help if you don't know anyone that can pose for you. When starting out you have to have stuff in your portfolio that a model may find of value. This can be a little difficult starting out, but once you get the ball rolling things get much easier. You just have to get the ball rolling.
Photographer
Iktan
Posts: 879
New York, New York, US
Images by MR wrote:
Silly... You can learn a lot from new models too.
My advice is start offering lots of cash instead of photo's may help. yeah this, thats how i got my avatar  $$$$$$$
Photographer
Wayne Cutler
Posts: 640
Los Angeles, California, US
Sarah Lynn Modeling wrote:
The advice I give new, inexperienced models is to PAY for an extremely good photographer. Why? Because you can learn so much from a top notch photographer, plus it will get you started off on the right foot when it comes to having high quality photos in your port. So as a new (well, new at shooting models) photographer, I give the same advice. PAY to shoot with an experienced, top notch model. The model will teach you a lot--the best angles and poses and he or she will be comfortable in front of the camera, making your work a lot easier and teaching you all these things. In addition to providing you with better quality photos. I have several shoots booked over the next month that are with photographers who are new to shooting with models. They are paying me not just to take my photo, but so that I can show them posing ideas, the best angles, and do's and don'ts when working and posing models. I think you will find that it is well worth your money.
Photographer
Wayne Cutler
Posts: 640
Los Angeles, California, US
Sarah Lynn Modeling wrote:
The advice I give new, inexperienced models is to PAY for an extremely good photographer. Why? Because you can learn so much from a top notch photographer, plus it will get you started off on the right foot when it comes to having high quality photos in your port. So as a new (well, new at shooting models) photographer, I give the same advice. PAY to shoot with an experienced, top notch model. The model will teach you a lot--the best angles and poses and he or she will be comfortable in front of the camera, making your work a lot easier and teaching you all these things. In addition to providing you with better quality photos. I have several shoots booked over the next month that are with photographers who are new to shooting with models. They are paying me not just to take my photo, but so that I can show them posing ideas, the best angles, and do's and don'ts when working and posing models. I think you will find that it is well worth your money. My sentiments exactly. Pay a model whose work you like. Also a good MUA and stylist will really help your portfolio. Also go on line like You Tube and check out model posing videos. You will be able to discern good videos from poor ones. Good luck.
Sorry about the other reply. Accidently hit the Return key.
Model
Melissa Kat
Posts: 401
Orlando, Florida, US
dbooker wrote:
As stated on my profile, I'm trying to branch out from product and event shoots and get some experience with model photography.
I searched for local models and contacted the ten active members that said they would be interested in shoots for trade. Half were inexperienced and/or looking to expand their portfolio.
One said she was busy enough she would only do it for her hourly rate. One (male) said, "Thanks, but no." One sort of engaged but stopped messaging.
Am I doing something wrong, or is this sort of response rate typical?
Following is the pitch I send to the experienced models, with subject, "Shoot for Trade?":
"I'm trying to break into model photography as a photographer. It sounds like I'd learn a lot from a session with you, so I'd be happy to try anything that interests you, and provide you both full copies of the sessions and any retouches I do. My schedule is pretty flexible and since we're local to each other I wouldn't mind doing little test sessions.
"If there's something you've seen that you'd like to try I'll be happy to let you know if I can setup to try to reproduce it."
(For less experienced models I remove the clause about "learning a lot from a session with you.") The guns is definitely one thing being mixed with lifeguard? That just makes no sense. Your last photos look like Linkedin head shots, and the ones in the pool I just don't understand the splashing.
Model
Amber Dawn - Indiana
Posts: 6255
Salem, Indiana, US
I notice you have no casting calls up ... perhaps put one up?
Photographer
dbooker
Posts: 23
Paoli, Pennsylvania, US
Photographer
nudeXposed
Posts: 1154
Shanghai, Shanghai, China
Photographer
J Haggerty
Posts: 1315
Augusta, Georgia, US
dbooker wrote:
As stated on my profile, I'm trying to branch out from product and event shoots and get some experience with model photography.
I searched for local models and contacted the ten active members that said they would be interested in shoots for trade. Half were inexperienced and/or looking to expand their portfolio.
One said she was busy enough she would only do it for her hourly rate. One (male) said, "Thanks, but no." One sort of engaged but stopped messaging.
Am I doing something wrong, or is this sort of response rate typical?
Following is the pitch I send to the experienced models, with subject, "Shoot for Trade?":
"I'm trying to break into model photography as a photographer. It sounds like I'd learn a lot from a session with you, so I'd be happy to try anything that interests you, and provide you both full copies of the sessions and any retouches I do. My schedule is pretty flexible and since we're local to each other I wouldn't mind doing little test sessions.
"If there's something you've seen that you'd like to try I'll be happy to let you know if I can setup to try to reproduce it."
(For less experienced models I remove the clause about "learning a lot from a session with you.") My humble opinion is that you need to rework your approach. This message you've been sending is a lengthy version of "I'm interested in working with you." Doesn't give any detail, direction, plan or photographer authority. As you are a photographer approaching a model with a want to shoot you need to have a game plan.
1. Concept
What do you want to shoot with them? What story, look, theme or vision do you have for these models to work with? They'll come to YOU if they want something shot and you're the photographer to do it. Hardly anyone wants someone to come to them and be like "I want to work with you but on what I don't know and can we do it for trade?"
2. Details
Location
Date and time
The team members you're bringing with you and who's covering clothing/makeup/hair with details from style to colors
Mood boards are great to have and should include reference images, inspiration images, images of the wardrobe you'll be using or wanting to replicate, etc. Add notes and any information you think relevant to getting the point across of your vision. If it's an expressive piece, express the emotion or feeling you feel or want to invoke. Pinterest is a good tool to use for mood boards.
3. Compensation
How much are you paying, if in cash. How many images will you give them, even a range of 1-5 would be more welcome than "anything I happen to edit". They want to see a number to put into perspective if the gig is worth their time for the trading of how many photos they're getting.
"If there's something you've seen that you'd like to try I'll be happy to let you know if I can setup to try to reproduce it." Put this in your profile, not the message. They'll read it and know they can provide ideas if they want to see something in this shoot. But I would reword it to something like, "If there's an image or idea you're particularly interest in send it over and we'll discuss how we can make something of our own."
Good luck!
Model
Blaire_
Posts: 343
Portland, Oregon, US
The first problem I see is that in your casting call, it's all about what YOU want. You are offering nothing, you are even having her do the leg work to come up with a concept!
Here is how I break it down for new or amateur photographers who want to improve their portfolios. You are only going to be 'on' for about five percent of your photos. And an amateur model is only going to be 'on' for about five percent of HER photos. The chance that those five percents overlap is less than slim. What you need to do is find your favorite two models in your area and pay them whatever they ask. They are not going to be excited to shoot with you. But they are going to be 'on' eighty percent of the shots. That's a much higher chance that when you are on, she will be. In the long run, it will be worth it because you will not be wasting your time on shoots that are 100% throwaway (but you have to retouch anyway because it was a TF and the models expect photos) With a payed model, she will not expect photos (at least she shouldn't). And when mid level models see that you are working with the best, they will be more inclined to want to shoot with you too.
If I were you, scrap the casting completely, until you have something to offer, but by that time, you will probably be spoiled and expect more top notch models anyway!
Photographer
dbooker
Posts: 23
Paoli, Pennsylvania, US
Interesting: I figured that if I have a few proposals and they don't interest the model then I'd be out of luck.
I guess I was assuming that most models, in addition to their portfolio, have a list of "shots I'd like to try" or "scenarios I'd like in my portfolio."
The message I'm getting now is that more often the models are tabulas rasas waiting for a photographer to come along with money and a set, and the model's job is to show up, follow instructions, and have some facility to mold their poses to the creative vision of the photographer?
I imagined it being more common for more significant interaction: E.g.,
1. I show some general technical abilities,
2. The model shows some interests and dispositions.
3. Only after I have a chance to consider the model and those interests in the context of my technical and creative capacities do I propose and prepare one or more shooting sessions.
4. If the communication to this point has been successful then the model gets excited for the session and shows up ready to handle the micro-level of creativity, which is their physical presentation in the macro context of the photographer's vision.
How detached from reality is this imagined process?
Model
- Auroraa -
Posts: 178
Salt Lake City, Utah, US
There is so much good advice here already!
My 50 cents:
1. Contact more models.
2. Offer to pay them SOME cash. I understand that you may not want to offer them their full rate, but some models may agree on helping you build your port by giving you a huge discount on their rates. I have done several shoots with less experienced photographers for as low as $50-$75. I am nice like that! It felt rewarding to see their ports shine with beautiful images of a professional model. I also coached them in the process.
Photographer
J Haggerty
Posts: 1315
Augusta, Georgia, US
dbooker wrote:
Interesting: I figured that if I have a few proposals and they don't interest the model then I'd be out of luck.
I guess I was assuming that most models, in addition to their portfolio, have a list of "shots I'd like to try" or "scenarios I'd like in my portfolio."
The message I'm getting now is that more often the models are tabulas rasas waiting for a photographer to come along with money and a set, and the model's job is to show up, follow instructions, and have some facility to mold their poses to the creative vision of the photographer?
I imagined it being more common for more significant interaction: E.g.,
1. I show some general technical abilities,
2. The model shows some interests and dispositions.
3. Only after I have a chance to consider the model and those interests in the context of my technical and creative capacities do I propose and prepare one or more shooting sessions.
4. If the communication to this point has been successful then the model gets excited for the session and shows up ready to handle the micro-level of creativity, which is their physical presentation in the macro context of the photographer's vision.
How detached from reality is this imagined process? Am I understanding that you're hoping models (whom YOU contact) will provide an idea for you to consider within the range of your technical ability and you'll proceed to decide if the shoot is worth pursuing? ..no. Not like that. Refer back to your critique board and start working from the advice given there.
Photographer
Jay Farrell
Posts: 13408
Nashville, Tennessee, US
They don't see anything in your work that suggests you shoot models....nor does your bio say that.
Photographer
dbooker
Posts: 23
Paoli, Pennsylvania, US
Jennifer Haggerty wrote:
Am I understanding that you're hoping models (whom YOU contact) will provide an idea for you to consider within the range of your technical ability and you'll proceed to decide if the shoot is worth pursuing? ..no. Not like that. Refer back to your critique board and start working from the advice given there. No, that's not quite what I meant. Let me try again: I have some projects I'd like to use models for, but in general I expect that if a shoot is exactly what I want then I pay the model. Likewise, I assumed that models have things they would like to add to their portfolio, and they understand that if they go to a photographer and demand that they're not getting paid, and they'll probably have to pay or have limited rights to the results.
Especially since I don't have experience shooting models I thought there could be some mutually beneficial, non-commercial opportunities with local models. So think of it like friendship instead of commerce: We see what our mutual interests and skills are, and if there's overlap we give a photographic relationship a try. If not, or if that doesn't work out, then we're both out some time but nobody's out money.
If this just doesn't happen in the photo/modelling world let me know. But I've made plenty of friends over other amateur pursuits based on common (and sometimes complimentary) interests rather than the exchange of money.
Photographer
J Haggerty
Posts: 1315
Augusta, Georgia, US
Then you would simply offer that you're trading time for images. Both you and the model would be putting time into creating portfolio use and networking images.
But if your issue is being unable to find models willing to do the exchange of time for images then you should consider paying for their time and you get images.
Photographer
Noah Russell
Posts: 609
Seattle, Washington, US
If you have never worked with a model, your most powerful tool to attract models is money. Save yourself a lot of wasted time and mental energy and pay someone.
Cheers!
Noah
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 39248
Portland, Oregon, US
dbooker wrote:
As stated on my profile, I'm trying to branch out from product and event shoots and get some experience with model photography.
I searched for local models and contacted the ten active members that said they would be interested in shoots for trade. Half were inexperienced and/or looking to expand their portfolio.
One said she was busy enough she would only do it for her hourly rate. One (male) said, "Thanks, but no." One sort of engaged but stopped messaging.
Am I doing something wrong, or is this sort of response rate typical?
Following is the pitch I send to the experienced models, with subject, "Shoot for Trade?":
"I'm trying to break into model photography as a photographer. It sounds like I'd learn a lot from a session with you, so I'd be happy to try anything that interests you, and provide you both full copies of the sessions and any retouches I do. My schedule is pretty flexible and since we're local to each other I wouldn't mind doing little test sessions.
"If there's something you've seen that you'd like to try I'll be happy to let you know if I can setup to try to reproduce it."
(For less experienced models I remove the clause about "learning a lot from a session with you.") As others have said.
Pay/hire experienced models first to build your portfolio, and if you want some practice first, hire some less experienced models, but hire them none-the-less.
Then, once you have a portfolio (of models) that models look at and think "OMG, I need to work with this guy", your chances to do trade work will increase signficanty.
If you're willing to invest in camera gear, computers, software, lighting, then you should be willing to invest in paying modeling talent to create a first class portfolio (of model photography).
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 5885
Vineland, New Jersey, US
I wouldn't say you're doing anything wrong ... I'd just say that you're new to the site and new to models. One has to build up a reputation. It's hard to do when no one will shoot with you the first time but it's no reason to give up.
Around these parts, no response *is* a response so you'll just have to keep trying. Once you find one model who will shoot with you, the next one will come a little easier, especially if they know each other.
I haven't been to your profile, but as you build up credits with various models, add them to your profile. Invite models you're wanting to shoot with to contact any of the models listed on your profile. When they hear that you're not a total pervert/scum/creep and/or they got the pictures you promised them, they might be more willing to shoot with you.
You may never get a top shelf model to shoot TF but you can get a lot of good ones if you try hard enough (just not too hard). Finally, just have fun.
These are all things that worked for me or I found to be true. YMMV but I'm only wishing good things on and for you. The journey is just beginning.
Photographer
ArtistRefuge
Posts: 129
San Francisco, California, US
Present a solid concept. Models want something they can use, something they are interested, or money.
Offer at least 2 of 3 and you will get more work. If you offer none of that you will get no work.
Model
Caitin Bre
Posts: 2687
Apache Junction, Arizona, US
dbooker wrote:
No, that's not quite what I meant. Let me try again: I have some projects I'd like to use models for, but in general I expect that if a shoot is exactly what I want then I pay the model. Likewise, I assumed that models have things they would like to add to their portfolio, and they understand that if they go to a photographer and demand that they're not getting paid, and they'll probably have to pay or have limited rights to the results.
Especially since I don't have experience shooting models I thought there could be some mutually beneficial, non-commercial opportunities with local models. So think of it like friendship instead of commerce: We see what our mutual interests and skills are, and if there's overlap we give a photographic relationship a try. If not, or if that doesn't work out, then we're both out some time but nobody's out money.
If this just doesn't happen in the photo/modelling world let me know. But I've made plenty of friends over other amateur pursuits based on common (and sometimes complimentary) interests rather than the exchange of money. Time is money.
All friends I have do respect my time as I do theirs. Being friendly and having a few things in creative common is not to be confused with friendship. Friendship is built over time sometimes years.
If you are looking at making friends so to get free use of their time then you are already off on the wrong foot.
Model
Shilo Von Porcelaine
Posts: 235
Los Angeles, California, US
I'm trying not to critique as this isn't the forum for it, but your portfolio is not a "model" portfolio--you are primarily shooting kids, business headshots, ect...not fashion stuff, which the majority of models on this site are here for.
If you want somebodys time and they're not going to shoot TF, offer them an hourly rate in your initial message. They can say no or you can negotiate. It doesn't have to be a lot...however much you can afford, but it's better than nothing and shows you respect and value their time. Plus, paid work is so scarce that a little bit is better than nothing and someone will bite.
Bottom line, as you don't have a lot of "model" type photos in your portfolio, you're better off hiring (paying) an experienced model to get you better shots that will get you TF or even paid gigs yourself in the future. You get what you pay for.
Model
Koryn
Posts: 39496
Boston, Massachusetts, US
dbooker wrote:
I guess I was assuming that most models, in addition to their portfolio, have a list of "shots I'd like to try" or "scenarios I'd like in my portfolio." Most of us do have an idea what we'd LIKE to have in our portfolio, but this does not mean that most of the photographers contacting us (or even that we choose to contact) are going to be able to create quality variations on those ideas. At least not for awhile.
When I first started shooting a lot (my first two years, I mostly worked for classical arts and figure drawing), I had all these "shots I'd like to try" ideas that were mostly highly stylized beauty shots, dramatic art nudes with complex lighting, and glamour images with soft editing and lots of styling. Every time I tried to shoot that stuff with people I scheduled for TF* during those early years, it mostly just came out looking...not good. Most of those early shoots, I did not have access to the styling, the makeup, or even photographers with studio lighting set ups. Most of my shoots were in the woods, at that point, and my own portfolio wasn't even good enough to attract much of anyone who knew what they were doing.
dbooker wrote:
The message I'm getting now is that more often the models are tabulas rasas waiting for a photographer to come along with money and a set, and the model's job is to show up, follow instructions, and have some facility to mold their poses to the creative vision of the photographer? That is essentially the model's job when he/she is being paid, yes.
On a paid shoot, your obligation is to bring the photographer's vision to life.
The model's OWN vision is better left for TF/collaborative shoots, or when the model is paying for photos.
Model
Isis22
Posts: 3557
Muncie, Indiana, US
You have stated you don't have experience working with models. Why on earth do you think a model with any experience is going to work with you for TF? I have worked with a photographer who only had experience photographing concerts, big time concerts. He was clueless on things like lighting, posing, etc. He paid me because I was giving him experience and 3 hours of my time. Frankly, I should have charged him double what I did. IMO you need to get realistic and just pay up.
Photographer
AgX
Posts: 2851
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
dbooker wrote:
No, that's not quite what I meant. Let me try again: I have some projects I'd like to use models for, but in general I expect that if a shoot is exactly what I want then I pay the model. Likewise, I assumed that models have things they would like to add to their portfolio, and they understand that if they go to a photographer and demand that they're not getting paid, and they'll probably have to pay or have limited rights to the results.
Especially since I don't have experience shooting models I thought there could be some mutually beneficial, non-commercial opportunities with local models. So think of it like friendship instead of commerce: We see what our mutual interests and skills are, and if there's overlap we give a photographic relationship a try. If not, or if that doesn't work out, then we're both out some time but nobody's out money.
If this just doesn't happen in the photo/modelling world let me know. But I've made plenty of friends over other amateur pursuits based on common (and sometimes complimentary) interests rather than the exchange of money. tl;dr version: it's rare, don't expect it. Any trade proposal should offer something of value to all sides. At least here, the further away from cash your offer is, the less you'll find people who value it.
I get the sense that you’re looking for a creative partner (or partners) more than a vessel to execute your predetermined vision. To answer one of your questions: it is possible, but my experience is that it’s relatively rare on MM when one or both of you are beginners.
As a result, I’ll offer an alternative approach to hiring models (not that I don’t think hiring experienced models works, just that (I think) it won’t get you to your (perceived) goal). Find a partner, wherever you can. Find someone who is interested in the same goals, process, etc. that you are, and work with that person repeatedly to learn and extend your abilities.
Like many others, when I wanted to learn how to shoot people, I bribed/cajoled/begged my friends, work colleagues and sometimes relatives to be my guinea pigs: “You don’t need to pose. Bring a book, I just want to work on some lighting. Then I’ll buy you beer.” This led to modest improvements on my part.
However, what really helped me advance in this genre was connecting and working with one model on a regular basis. We both knew almost nothing about modeling photography, but we had the same goals and worked towards those ends. She had ideas, I had concepts, we morphed them, gutted them, modified them, tried them out - sometimes to success, sometimes to abject failure. We shot about once a month for a year or so, and we continue to work together when we’re in the same city. I learned more about shooting people (lighting, posing, directing, composition, etc.) from that creative relationship than I ever did from hiring models for cash.
This isn’t to undermine the value of paid models; I’ve worked with some exceptionally talented and dedicated individuals who primarily work for cash. I just get the feeling that that’s not exactly what you’re looking for and you’re interested in building a creative relationship. The hard part, however, is finding that person, especially at the beginning, so definitely don’t expect models to automatically fit that niche for you. It does get much easier as you get more skilled. To this day, other than when I’m hired, I look to work with models on an ongoing basis more than singular shoots.
Photographer
Steve Korn
Posts: 390
Seattle, Washington, US
Isis22 wrote:
You have stated you don't have experience working with models. Why on earth do you think a model with any experience is going to work with you for TF? I have worked with a photographer who only had experience photographing concerts, big time concerts. He was clueless on things like lighting, posing, etc. He paid me because I was giving him experience and 3 hours of my time. Frankly, I should have charged him double what I did. IMO you need to get realistic and just pay up. This.
Photographer
Jay Farrell
Posts: 13408
Nashville, Tennessee, US
KelliePics wrote:
Dear Booker - We have two issues here. They are like so:
(1) The difficulty of getting models, no matter how great you are or can be
(2) Your port, does it attract models to work with you?
Answers:
(1) No matter who you are, no matter how good, you will have to contact MANY models before you find one. I contact around 50 males all over the U.S. before I can fine ONE to consent to PAID WORK. It is VERY HARD to find models, especially good or beautiful ones. If you will take ANYONE or almost anyone, it would be easier. So mine is tough as I only seek the greatest beauties. You will have to try harder and perhaps a bigger net, you might have to pay or pay expenses. Worth the money to get started.
(2) Your port is a TOTAL TURN OFF TO MODELS. Why? Because they have NO IDEA how you would photograph them or how they would look, as you have presented no work here that looks like you could REPRESENT PROPERLY A PROFESSIONAL OR ASPIRING MODEL.
Your port looks like you took family photos. They look dorky, amateurish and non artistic. No one wants to be seen, as a model, the way you have portrayed these people.
Obviously you are starting out, learning. My advice is this: Find a person or persons who is a friend and shoot them for hours on end. Study the photos to see what works. Try, try harder. Cut out all the background and clutter. You have way too much background, concentrate on the models. Stop all that smiling. Have them turn this way or that, left, right, up, down. Frame them better, COMPOSITION. Notice everything in the picture. You are doing EVERYTHING WRONG.
So if you cannot find a friend to pose for you for free, then you will just have to offer money, it seems to me. Save your pennies.
Do not resent my words. You wanted help - I helped. This will hurt a little while, the pain will go away, and you will get better. Give yourself two years to get good. So how many years will you give yourself?
Photographer
Lachance Photography
Posts: 247
Daytona Beach, Florida, US
Pretty much agree with what everyone else is saying, your pitch also sounds kind of desperate and many models are going to see no benefit in shooting with someone who sounds like they don't know what they are doing even if it is trade. Pay for a few quality models so that you can get some good images in your port that will make people want to to do tf with you. Right now you have nothing in your port that shows the type of skills you are looking to develop. Sorry if this sounds harsh but we all have to start somewhere.
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 21526
Chicago, Illinois, US
Some of you folks crack me up. When I lived in Texas I met two women at my health club. I approached them about modeling. They said, sure and off we went to shoot days later. They hadn't even seen any of my work. They are still in my profile here. My most commented on image was a model I met when I visited Orlando, Fl. She just wanted to shoot and I didn't have to pay any of these ladies. You don't need to spend lots of money or shoot like Phillipe to find willing people. To be candid most of the people here aren't models to start with so this concept about their being able to 'use' the work is laughable.
OP, get some business cards made. Get on Craigslist and OMP. Approach attractive women and give them your card. I was in NY a few years ago and I met a model from Elite. She had her embossed book with her. She was all smiles and cool. I gave her my hotel number which she called so we could shoot. My demon ex wife stopped that though. This summer I was at the beach shooting a MM model. A pretty woman walked up to us and asked if I would shoot her too. Look, I'm not talking about agency models. If you want to pay people nothing wrong with that but paying to practice isn't in my mind a smart investment. Also keep in mind their are model members with a vested interest in telling photographers that the only way to get good models is to pay them. Good is subjective of course.
Don't be afraid to approach strangers. I met a great model at a restaurant she was a waitress. Their are plenty of women who love being photographed. Facebook is another good resource.
Photographer
dbooker
Posts: 23
Paoli, Pennsylvania, US
Thanks for the additional responses -- especially the subtle hints  I understand that paying is going to open a lot of doors a lot faster. I just broke down and posted a paid casting call and got a promising model lined up for tomorrow. So that was easy, and we'll soon see whether at this point I am a good enough photographer to produce shots of models that will attract other models to shoot for trade. But I don't have the money to make paying a common practice, and besides I was hoping to find a local creative partner (like what @AgX described), so I'm staying on the lookout for that. (BTW, @TonyLawrence, I love your observation, "most of the people here aren't models to start with...." I had sort of counted on a lot of them realizing that. In any case, since I have more time and patience than money I'm also going to try your method of asking more strangers more often in more places. Heck, if I thought I were photogenic I'd make a trip to pose in front of someone with expensive equipment and see what they can do with me in exchange for free copies.)
Photographer
Lallure Photographic
Posts: 2086
Taylors, South Carolina, US
dbooker wrote:
Thanks for the additional responses -- especially the subtle hints
I understand that paying is going to open a lot of doors a lot faster. I just broke down and posted a paid casting call and got a promising model lined up for tomorrow. So that was easy, and we'll soon see whether at this point I am a good enough photographer to produce shots of models that will attract other models to shoot for trade.
But I don't have the money to make paying a common practice, and besides I was hoping to find a local creative partner (like what @AgX described), so I'm staying on the lookout for that.
(BTW, @TonyLawrence, I love your observation, "most of the people here aren't models to start with...." I had sort of counted on a lot of them realizing that. In any case, since I have more time and patience than money I'm also going to try your method of asking more strangers more often in more places. Heck, if I thought I were photogenic I'd make a trip to pose in front of someone with expensive equipment and see what they can do with me in exchange for free copies.) Your work is very "portrait" oriented, at this point. You need to think outside of that box, and try to develop some commercial style. For that purpose, I suggest you think more about planning, and less about the model. You can find your own models, locally, if you simply try, and you have a good, interesting concept to try, with a commercial look to it. Decide what you want to try, and then look for examples from other photogs, in that kind of style, to get more ideas, and pay close attention to how details were handled.
Transitioning from portrait to commercial style, is a process..........it will take a while. You will find however, that once you get to that point, your portrait clientele, will be very interested in your commercial style.
Any photog NOT shooting nudes.........can find interested, local models to work with, if you simply give someone who has a nice look, a card, and tell them to contact you, if they have an interest. Don't do any more than that. No pressure, of any kind. Just a card, and an invitation to call for more info.
I always, even when I was a portraitist, did personal work, with local models I found myself, off the street. Some will want pics, others might want a small fee (far less than you are likely to get asked here.)
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