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Feeling used and humiliated
I recently got back a bad batch of photos from a TFP. This surprised me because I thought the shoot went really well and was super excited to see them. The photographer and I got along really well. When I looked at the photos none of them were useable. They were mediocre and he intentionally sent unflattering terrible photos, which he says he sends as critiquing. All of the photos were unflattering that he sent and I know there were some good ones. Anyway I asked him about it and he said that the shoot wasn't good because he said it's because I am a plus size model and he doesn't shoot plus size models and it was a test shoot anyway for a different shoot. Just really rude and dismissive. Basically he used me to set up for another shoot and then tried to make me feel bad. This is the first batch of photos I have received that were not good. This has never happened. I believe my profile accurately represents what I look like and is not misleading. Why shoot with me then if you don't shoot plus size? I asked to look at more which of course he ignored. I know that I will not shoot with this guy again and I know I need to let it go and move on. I guess I feel like he misrepresented why he was shooting with me and was incredibly inconsiderate to my end of the trade. I have a tendency to be a little too trusting and want the see the best in people. Anyway I guess I need to vent more than anything and also looking for suggestions to set boundaries and agreements with photographers and good dialogue to have before hand. Like I said this is the first time this has ever happened P.S. I should have known he was a bad egg by his crusty white socks. Don't hesitate to judge a man by his socks. Oct 04 14 05:31 pm Link What a jerk. You don't look plus-sized to me. Sounds like maybe he didn't control the parameters of his shoot well enough to get a result that he wanted. His fault. Oct 04 14 05:35 pm Link I'm truly saddened to hear you had that experience. I agree with what has already been said, you should just move forward and not let this upset you more than it already has, as there is nothing you can do to change what happened. I took a look at your portfolio, and I wouldn't consider you plus size at all, I think you are pretty much a normal size. However, some strange "industry standard" numbers might disagree with my personal thoughts. In any event, you are simply beautiful and have a very nice delicate figure which is well suited to modelling, whether nude, lingerie, or clothed. Don't let this experience discourage you, but continue to find other photographers to work with who appreciate you as you are and will not be judgmental when there is no reason to. Oct 04 14 05:48 pm Link baczynski wrote: Ok, at 5'8", 140 lbs as per your profile a size 8. I'm sorry, what part of that says plus sized? Sounds like you just ran into a photographer who had a bad shoot and wanted to make excuses for not being able to execute. Lol, I've worked with models who were shorter than you but weighed literally twice as much you, I'm not saying that as a put down or as demeaning, but the shots still came out fine, and she loved them. And oh, I didn't make excuses. See the difference? I know it'll take time to shrug it off, but you'll be better off if you just move along and forget what he said. Oct 04 14 05:49 pm Link baczynski wrote: +1000 Oct 04 14 05:51 pm Link You are a real woman, from what I can tell. That makes you a preferred model to me. The photographer, on the other hand, is obviously not a professional. A professional always brings his best game. A professional photographer is supposed to make everybody look great. If he can't do that, he needs to find another line of work. Oct 04 14 05:56 pm Link For future shoots ask the photographer in advance if you can see the images either after each set or at the end of the shoot. If you're doing a TF shoot you should at least get to suggest ones that you would like the photographer to consider editing. Oct 04 14 05:59 pm Link Strange complaints that mostly seem like your subjective opinions. Oct 04 14 05:59 pm Link Really sorry to hear about this. It's strange that he would only send you the unflattering pictures. Like you wrote, learn from this and just move on to someone better. Oct 04 14 06:01 pm Link You're taller than me....and weigh less...'nuff said... But TF shoots are always gamble...in my opinion...no monetary incentive to make sure everything is on point. I've noticed models who have paid don't go into a shoot half-assed, and photographers who are paid usually attempt to make the client happy.. Oct 04 14 06:02 pm Link Ms Katie Blair wrote: I have paid for photos before, and ended up with results that were blown out looking, and nothing like what was represented in the portfolio of the person I hired. Oct 04 14 06:21 pm Link HEYYYYYY! What's wrong with crusty white socks?? Actually, I don't even know what that means. (lol) Before agreeing to future shoots, you could ask the photographers if they will allow you to have a say in which photos to select for final edits. Some may and some may not, but this way you'll know before agreeing to shoot with them. Oct 04 14 06:23 pm Link Thank you everyone for the support and comments! Much love Oct 04 14 06:28 pm Link I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I can't critique you in this forum but I'll go out on a limb and just say that you don't look difficult to photograph at all. That said, are you being overly critical or harsh on yourself as far as the images he sent you go? Maybe they aren't as poor as you think. I've shot several times with a great model - we still work together occasionally - and she hates half of the stuff we shoot. "I look too fat!", "I hate the angle of my face in this one!", "my leg looks too big", ... You get the idea. I've show the images to others and got really positive feedback. She finally broke down and posted one or two she wasn't happy with and got great comments and lots of views before taking them down. Now, to be fair, the images in question were chosen by me out of the lot we shot. I have a pretty good eye though and this is standard practice for me. Take a second look and re-evaluate them. Of course, that doesn't explain his rude attitude or actions. Oct 04 14 06:41 pm Link I am coming to think that on TF shoots a model should not provide a model release until the photographer provides the images. If this guy posts any images from the shoot here on MM use the "contact a moderator" feature to let them know what happened..... sorry for the bad experience. we are not all like that. But apparently far far too many are..... Oct 04 14 06:45 pm Link this is why i like shooting into a tv. there are no surprises. everyone on set sees every shot (unretouched). if the customer isn't seeing anything they like we can talk about it while there's still a chance to switch gears. and after my first couple shoots here i stopped trying to choose for anyone. i let them choose for themselves. Oct 04 14 06:52 pm Link Blaming is the model is go to excuse for a GWC who cant shoot. Things look good on a 3" screen in the back of your camera, but then when you see them later they stink. Dont let it get you down, its his loss. *Edit* Your a model who shoots nudes, you will have a billion TFP offers. From now on make it a part of the trade agreement that you be given the best 50 shots as proofs, and you get to select the top 3 that the photographer will then edit for publication. Oct 04 14 06:59 pm Link KitLizzadro wrote: First of all, I'm sorry to hear about this difficult experience. The world is full of assholes, and some of them can even use a camera. Oct 04 14 07:18 pm Link KitLizzadro wrote: Hi, Oct 04 14 07:46 pm Link Koryn wrote: Absolutely. Oct 04 14 07:51 pm Link F-1 Photo wrote: This is what I can do sometimes, (it isn't the 'shot' or the photographer that my occasionally self-criticizing eye is seeing.) Usually when I realize that, I stop. The photographer's eye, work, taste and style is why I shoot with them, insulting them by accident of ripping on myself is so wrong. ARGH, Just this morning I shot with someone who is AMAZING, (Risen Phoenix,) and I caught myself doing the self-ripping. Thank GOODNESS he gave me a knowing look and smile and said, "You do know that I know what I am doing right?" OH BOY!! yup. However, had it been another photographer who wasn't understanding that even models can be harsh on themselves then it could've gone a whole different and bad way. Oct 04 14 07:56 pm Link Figures JenB wrote: Ruh roh. I've had models do that to me. One made me really feel self conscious about my work. I figured out quickly that she was self critical and I did my best and she finally liked what we shot. After all it's my desire to take great pictures of a model. She eventually came back for more pictures. Oct 04 14 08:16 pm Link I'd be very surprised if he was intentionally sending you the worst photos. What do think his motivation would be for doing so? Sometimes shoots don't go well or one's expectations are too high. I've sometimes had two similar shoots in which one model loved the photos and the other model was disappointed. Similarly, I've had some models who far exceeded my expectations and other who fell far short. Agreeing to TF has it's risks. Sometimes models are disappointed in the photos they receive, sometimes photographers are disappointed with the model. Not all shoots will provide what you hope they will. Rather than dwell on it, I think it's best to simply move onto other shoots which hopefully you will be more satisfied with. Oct 04 14 08:19 pm Link Fotografica Gregor wrote: Wrong. The most consistent advice I ran across when I started was 'always get a model release, don't shoot until it's signed'. Refusing to sign until after the shoot will set her up for conflict and failure. Don't treat everyone like a prick because you were mistreated once. That's a downward spiral that hurts everyone. Oct 04 14 09:28 pm Link Random Image wrote: I disagree, and I would never do that, plus give the model only 3? How generous. Oct 04 14 10:06 pm Link Pics of crusty socks? Oct 04 14 11:23 pm Link Figures JenB wrote: Jen, well she is wonderful to work with and I always have a great time. Sometimes she over thinks things beacause she wants everything to be perfect. I am ok with that, and I appreciate that. Oct 04 14 11:46 pm Link Honestly, the only reason I can see for that is him being on a power trip and wanting to make you feel like shit about yourself or your abilities so he feels better. Or that HE was the one who failed in the images and he's trying to blame you. Don't work with him again, tell all your model friends, and move on, Oct 05 14 04:16 am Link Noah Russell wrote: He told me this after the shoot Had I known he was going to impose himself as teacher or God I wouldn't have shot with him. He said he feels its his duty to teach models and after the shoot he said that he doesn't shoot plus size while at the time I didn't realize he was directing that towards me till later when he sent the photos. All his critiquing told me was that he thought I needed to loose weight. Nothing super constructive. I like constructive criticism and welcome it if it's constructive. I know I'm not thin, I also I know I don't need to loose weight in order to have good shoot. Oct 05 14 07:47 am Link Abbitt Photography wrote: I guess I got hung up on his tone and demeanor after the shoot. It's one thing if the shoot was a bust and I get that. It's how he put the blame on me being a plus size that I find intentionally hurtful. He doesn't wasn't to be associated with them and indicated afterwards it was a test shoot for another client. He also said that he doesn't give the best of the shots and sends bad ones for the model to learn from, again all after the shoot. So he really had not care for me as a person and that's what hurt the most. Moving on... Oct 05 14 07:58 am Link He is a moron period. And ya never trust a person with crusty white socks. Oct 05 14 08:07 am Link Figures JenB wrote: At the end of the shoot we chatted for a while and walked to get a bite to eat. We got a long. He did mention after the shoot that he doesn't send the best of the best and he throws in some bad ones for the model to learn from. His "critiquing." Also that he doesn't shoot plus size models which I didn't realize he was directing at me which I later found out when I asked about the photos. He also said he doesn't shoot older women as in past the age of 23 because their skin doesn't look as nice. He is an agist also. At the time I couldn't speak up because I was listening and thinking he was just commenting on past shoots and what he was saying after the shoot wasn't really processing, maybe because I was so hungry? I'm thinking it's not that he doesn't shoot plus size but more so he is uncomfortable with grown women because he usually shoots thin young girls. Oct 05 14 08:08 am Link actually size 8 and up IS considered plus sized in the modeling world...however that shouldn't be an excuse for not photographing you correctly. That being said, as others have mentioned, TF is a collaboration between a model and a photographer (and sometimes a whole team) I'd be more choosey who I did TF with in the future. Oct 05 14 08:10 am Link KitLizzadro wrote: Also, keep in mind that lighting, angles and posing will alter how your photos come out looking, by as much as about 20 pounds. Oct 05 14 08:16 am Link I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with an asshole's overdeveloped ego. But that really shouldn't make you feel used and humiliated. Oct 05 14 08:25 am Link You said it all in your OP. These days every one with a camera is *a photographer. For me, that person's response is not really a reflection of you but of them. IF you need to respond to him, phrase it in a way that it is all about him, many problems deep down that are showing. You have everything going for you, don't be fit into a box that doesn't fit.... You are not a plus sized model, just a model who is right for people allowing you to be you, where you will shine. Oct 05 14 08:26 am Link KitLizzadro wrote: He said, he purposely with holds the best shots on a TF shoot? Wow - that is really slimy. I think that's incredibly rare, and doubt you'll ever run into that again. Oct 05 14 08:28 am Link Risen Phoenix Photo wrote: oops, lost my connection. Oct 05 14 08:28 am Link KitLizzadro wrote: Sounds like he is a bitter jackA** and that whatever bone he had to pick or vicious cruelty he had was nothing PERSONAL about you but his idiocy. I'm sorry you had to run into it. Yes, I think he used you and unleashed some toxic crap that you did NOT deserve. Oct 05 14 08:39 am Link I shoot people who range in size from skinny to Oh My will my stool support that much weight. Your job as the photographer is to make them look the best they can be. You are great looking and I would not say you are plus sized. Kids and old people and all sizes helps you figure out how to pose the current subject. I have seen pictures of all ages and sizes that are great and it is not always the subject that made it that way but the photographer. In this case if he failed to make a few shots that were nice of you then he blew the shoot. Oct 05 14 08:45 am Link |