-The Dave- wrote:
I'm curious, what are you majoring in college?

Chemistry

vivian rose wrote:
I've had offers from photographers who were willing to pay me. It was surprising because I don't have a lot of experience under my belt and only a few photos in my portfolio. They were the ones who set the rate (it was $100 for 2 hours I think). I had declined the offer because the photographer's background was sketchy and his photos were not great.

$50 per hour is not particularly high.  Beginning photographers are offering to pay so that you will work with them.  Some models are willing to work with all photographers regardless of skill level but certainly you shouldn't work with someone you consider to be sketchy.

vivian rose wrote:
I am still unsure as to when trade is appropriate and when asking for paid assignments are appropriate.

Consider it to be a negotiation.

vivian rose wrote:
What sets a nude photo apart from a clothed one? The fact that the model is naked?

Yes, of course.  But nude or clothed, I want the image to have a purpose.

vivian rose wrote:
It's all about sex.

I suggest that you take a quick look at the images in my Art Figure Studies album.  Most are 18+, some are sexy, some are not.
https://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/5 … l#/A340646

vivian rose wrote:
I wasn't referring to the actual act of sex..........but look at the profiles of the models who have nudes included in their portfolio. The nude pictures are always the most viewed, most commented on, most listed, most talked about, etc. Why is that? Why are nude photos so special? Because they are "sexier". People want to see sexy. Why else would Victoria's Secret or even Playboy be so well-known?

People put the type of images in their ports that people want to see and samples of the market they want to target.

It's the same thing you should be doing with your portfolio, show what you want to do, show what you want to get paid to do.

Here on MM what most people want is nudes, sexy stuff and bacon.

Mark Salo wrote:
But nude or clothed, I want the image to have a purpose.

Exactly at what I am trying to get at. What purpose do nude photos serve over clothed ones?

vivian rose wrote:
What sets a nude photo apart from a clothed one? The fact that the model is naked? The fact that a model has to get naked in order to see some type of success/recognition says a lot about this industry. It's all about sex.

You couldn't be more wrong.

vivian rose wrote:
Exactly at what I am trying to get at. What purpose do nude photos serve over clothed ones?

What purpose does a plain hamburger serve over a hamburger with everything?

vivian rose wrote:

I wasn't referring to the actual act of sex..........but look at the profiles of the models who have nudes included in their portfolio. The nude pictures are always the most viewed, most commented on, most listed, most talked about, etc. Why is that? Why are nude photos so special? Because they are "sexier". People want to see sexy. Why else would Victoria's Secret or even Playboy be so well-known?

Again...you are wrong.

D A N I wrote:
Again...you are wrong.

I looked at your profile and saw that your "nude" and "fetish" albums received far more attention than your other ones: ones that included pictures of you NOT naked.

vivian rose wrote:
I looked at your profile and saw that your "nude" and "fetish" albums received far more attention than your other ones: ones that included pictures of you NOT naked.

My most viewed, commented photo is me in a bikini. Also, I advertise nude, erotic, fetish work. So of course my naked work will get more attention, why? because it's what I tell people to look at when applying for a fetish or erotic nude casting call.

I know nude models who has work that is far less sexual than mine. They have more artistic work because they are ART nude models. There is no open leg or T&A shots. Why are they naked? Because the human body is a beautiful canvas. Would you complain about the Venus de Milo because you can see her tits? Or the thousands of other nude statues in museums, and on public display?

What purpose does nude photos have over clothed? It depends on the story, the vision, the "what is the model portraying". One doesn't outweigh the other, but when it comes to internet modeling nude work brings home the bacon. Why? Because a photographer can throw a penny and hit 100 models that would model clothes for free. BUT maybe only 10% would model nude for free.

My body is my temple, and I charge admission.

Mark Salo wrote:
But nude or clothed, I want the image to have a purpose.

vivian rose wrote:
Exactly at what I am trying to get at. What purpose do nude photos serve over clothed ones?

There are many different purposes.  Did you look at my Art Figure Studies album like I asked?  None of these below would work with clothing.

This one shows abstract lines;


This one is hard to believe:


This one is a study in contrasty lighting:
18+
https://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/1 … 87ab46.jpg

And gently flowing curves here:
18+
https://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/1 … 658d10.jpg

ETA:  Here is the same model as in the top three images.  Yes, clothed for a different purpose.

Mark Salo wrote:

There are many different purposes.  Did you look at my Art Figure Studies album like I asked?  None of these below would work with clothing.

This one shows abstract lines;


This one is hard to believe:


This one is a study in contrasty lighting:
18+
https://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/1 … 87ab46.jpg


And gently flowing curves here:
18+
https://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/1 … 658d10.jpg

I did look at them and you have a very good point.

vivian rose wrote:

I looked at your profile and saw that your "nude" and "fetish" albums received far more attention than your other ones: ones that included pictures of you NOT naked.

It appears from your recents statements that you have some real deep issue with nude images and the nude body!

vivian rose wrote:
What sets a nude photo apart from a clothed one? The fact that the model is naked? The fact that a model has to get naked in order to see some type of success/recognition says a lot about this industry. It's all about sex.

Nude photos and sex are completely different things. That kind of attitude will not get you far.

You ask a question, and obviously don't like the answers that you are getting. Really, you have two choices:

1. Accept reality, that the market is what it is, and work in that market.

2. Move on to a different hobby.

vivian rose wrote:
I have nothing against modeling nude. It takes a special type of person to model nude, and I don't think I've built up the confidence or experience yet to try it.

That's really OK.

vivian rose wrote:
On another note: I just got an email from a photographer (with a very nice portfolio) asking me what my rates are. Now I have no idea what to say!

Tell him $35 per hour plus travel.  Ask about wardrobe and makeup.

BTW did you see my edit above?

J-PhotoArt wrote:

It appears from your recents statements that you have some real deep issue with nude images and the nude body!

Not at all. I'm just pointing out the fact that nude photos receive far more attention than clothed ones.

Mark Salo wrote:

That's really OK.


Tell him $35 per hour plus travel.

BTW did you see my edit above?

Yes I did lol

vivian rose wrote:

Not at all. I'm just pointing out the fact that nude photos receive far more attention than clothed ones.

Hmm ... and that's bad?

vivian rose wrote:
Not at all. I'm just pointing out the fact that nude photos receive far more attention than clothed ones.

But your responses seem to indicate that you do have problems with it, at least as I am seeing it.  Maybe I am the only one getting this feeling from your responses?

If you do not like and / or have a problem nudes, then do not look at them and / or do not participate in any shoots with nudity.  However, do not look down upon and / or judge those that do not share your views and do participate in posing for and creating nude images!

vivian rose wrote:
On another note: I just got an email from a photographer (with a very nice portfolio) asking me what my rates are. Now I have no idea what to say!

Quote him/her what you feel you are worth.

D A N I wrote:

My most viewed, commented photo is me in a bikini. Also, I advertise nude, erotic, fetish work. So of course my naked work will get more attention, why? because it's what I tell people to look at when applying for a fetish or erotic nude casting call.

I know nude models who has work that is far less sexual than mine. They have more artistic work because they are ART nude models. There is no open leg or T&A shots. Why are they naked? Because the human body is a beautiful canvas. Would you complain about the Venus de Milo because you can see her tits? Or the thousands of other nude statues in museums, and on public display?

What purpose does nude photos have over clothed? It depends on the story, the vision, the "what is the model portraying". One doesn't outweigh the other, but when it comes to internet modeling nude work brings home the bacon. Why? Because a photographer can throw a penny and hit 100 models that would model clothes for free. BUT maybe only 10% would model nude for free.

My body is my temple, and I charge admission.

that end quote though....

vivian rose wrote:
I have nothing against modeling nude. It takes a special type of person to model nude, and I don't think I've built up the confidence or experience yet to try it.
On another note: I just got an email from a photographer (with a very nice portfolio) asking me what my rates are. Now I have no idea what to say!

Modeling nude has nothing to do with experience. My very first shoot was nude. It is about confidence and not having hang ups about your body. Modeling nude has given me MORE confidence for what it's worth.

Ask the photographer what his budget is. Put the ball in his court.

vivian rose wrote:
I've had offers from photographers who were willing to pay me. It was surprising because I don't have a lot of experience under my belt and only a few photos in my portfolio. They were the ones who set the rate (it was $100 for 2 hours I think). I had declined the offer because the photographer's background was sketchy and his photos were not great. It all just seems very vague. I am still unsure as to when trade is appropriate and when asking for paid assignments are appropriate.

vivian rose wrote:
I have nothing against modeling nude. It takes a special type of person to model nude, and I don't think I've built up the confidence or experience yet to try it.
On another note: I just got an email from a photographer (with a very nice portfolio) asking me what my rates are. Now I have no idea what to say!

So, you might consider finding a photographer whose nude work you admire and pay that person to do a nude shoot with you. By picking someone trustworthy you can guarantee you have control over the images and can trash them later if you want, but you might find that you both enjoy the experience and have a heightened level of self confidence for ALL kinds of shoots going forward

vivian rose wrote:
Hello,

I am just starting out in modeling. I have done a couple trade shoots and a couple shoots where I have paid the photographer. Once I get all of my photos sorted I will have a good size portfolio that hits quite a few different genres. My question is, how much longer should I go before I set a rate and start asking for paid work? I understand the importance of trade shoots, especially if you are just starting out. However, you can only do so many trade shoots to where it doesn't really benefit you (the model) anymore, and it is just a repetition of shooting the same genres for free.

Negative, grasshopper. You parlay your current book and test (trade) up, meaning working with better talent, to shoot better material. You then replace the old shot with the new, better shot.

EVERYBODY tests. Everybody. It's just a matter of with who.

mophotoart wrote:
....if not, your competing with every lovely girl out there that is paying to build her port or tf shoot...believe it or not...photographers do get paid to do pictures..not just "models"...

I am one of those "models" who has invested over $500 so far to get her portfolio started. So yes I do know that "photographers" get paid too.

vivian rose wrote:

Mark Salo wrote:
But nude or clothed, I want the image to have a purpose.

Exactly at what I am trying to get at. What purpose do nude photos serve over clothed ones?

What purpose do nude art paintings and statues serve over clothed ones?  They are in museums.   

vivian rose wrote:
What sets a nude photo apart from a clothed one? The fact that the model is naked? The fact that a model has to get naked in order to see some type of success/recognition says a lot about this industry. It's all about sex.

Lingerie photos showing no nudity are far more sexual than most of the nudes I shoot, IMO. Context is everything. Please don't be one of those people that goes around thinking nudity=sex. Ugh. Expand your horizons a little.

Nudes are far more appealing to look at than clothed photos, for many. They are more vulnerable. They require more from the model than clothed photos--emotionally and physically. There is also the stigma/risk associated with them from people that think nudes=sex. THAT is why models get paid more to shoot nudes.

If you want to get paid, it's certainly an easier way to do so. Otherwise, you'll have a tough time. The photographers that have crappy work are more willing to pay models (even for clothed) because the models know they're not going to get good photos out of it. That's likely a lot of the paid offers you'll get (if you're not interested in nudes). I wouldn't be so quick to shun those offers.

vivian rose wrote:
What sets a nude photo apart from a clothed one? The fact that the model is naked? The fact that a model has to get naked in order to see some type of success/recognition says a lot about this industry. It's all about sex.

I've been puzzling over how to respond to this statement for a couple of days.  It's very hard to explain to someone who, for whatever reason, simply disapproves of nudity in art and either cannot or will not see the difference between an artistic expression and smut.  It's like explaining why you love your husband or wife to someone who dislikes him or her.  The best I can do is this bit of dialogue from "Man of La Mancha":  http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/manoflam … ikehim.htm

If it doesn't make sense to someone, then the problem is probably not with the artistic expression but with that person's artistic sensibilities instead.

vivian rose wrote:
Hello,

I am just starting out in modeling. I have done a couple trade shoots and a couple shoots where I have paid the photographer. .

No idea which photographer is which as in paid or tf on your port but did any of them tell you how to pose your hands ?

vivian rose wrote:

I've had offers from photographers who were willing to pay me. It was surprising because I don't have a lot of experience under my belt and only a few photos in my portfolio. They were the ones who set the rate (it was $100 for 2 hours I think). I had declined the offer because the photographer's background was sketchy and his photos were not great. It all just seems very vague. I am still unsure as to when trade is appropriate and when asking for paid assignments are appropriate.

you don't get paid for "great photos"  You get paid for your time.  I often shoot with photographers even though I don't love their photos, it's part of the job.  If I only shot with people who's photos I loved, it would be a hobby.  There will be time for TF if you want to get great, artistic photos.  Unless your boundaries are being crossed, you should accept (after checking references.  No need to be so skeptical, Most of us in the industry use pseudonyms and try to keep our personal life separate).  You have to do some thinking.  Do you only want to shoot what YOU want to shoot?  That's fine, You will be a hobbyist and you will most likely not make any money.  Do you want to try to make something of this?  That works too, but you will have to come out of your shell, take some risks (this includes not treating every photographer like a creep) and shoot what your CLIENT wants you to shoot (excluding your mentioned boundaries).

Good luck!

Risen Phoenix Photo wrote:
Wow you can really stand to work with top photographer TF a while longer.  What are you hoping to accomplish as a 5'4" model. Fashion? Runway? Internet modeling for the newbie photographers and hobby guys?  Really great images for your Facebook. Seems you need to work out why you are doing this

vivian rose wrote:
I believe I was asking for advice, not a snobby comment.

I didn't view that as a snobby comment. It looked to me like a serious attempt to answer your original question. But whatever . . . .