Model
LauraLuna
Posts: 261
Madrid, Madrid, Spain
DespayreFX wrote:
You're not breathing deeply still. 
I agree, that wasn't her best attempt to diffuse that comment...but let's not forget, we've all been 19 yr old college girls who are just starting up at modeling at one point in our lives! Oh wait, I've said too much...
I think we've answered her question in this thread already, and it looks like we're headed towards "bashing" territory.
Also, as you know, you port speaks for itself, you don't need to justify it (sidenote, those spiked heels, awesome!).
The OP lives in Vegas, one of my favorite cities (I'm there a lot), one thing's for sure, she will find out what the industry is like, probably at an accelerated pace because of her location. We should check back with her in a year and see how she feels about everything.
I'd also say, that for a lot of 19 yr olds it's *reeeeally* difficult to draw a line between "sex appeal", and whatever the next stop on that train is. That just comes with life experience, which, unfortunately, comes with age. Wise
Model
Dea and the Beast
Posts: 4796
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Ugh I know you're absolutely right and I wish I could handle juvenile irrelevant nonsense with the same grace you're displaying but to some shit I just do not take kindly.
I have worked hard to get to where I'm at, comfort level, experience, skill, and I will not be talked to like I have something for sale that would compromise my future business, since I actually DO have business.
Photographer
Revenge Photography
Posts: 1905
Horsham, Victoria, Australia
vivian rose wrote:
What sets a nude photo apart from a clothed one? The fact that the model is naked? The fact that a model has to get naked in order to see some type of success/recognition says a lot about this industry. It's all about sex. All other things being equal, if I had to choose between a model that will shot nudes and the one that won't, I will go withe a model that shoots nudes every time.
They tend to be more confident and and by virtue of the willingness to shoot nudes have shown a willingness to step outside of their comfort zone. That confidence translates directly to better shots.
Model
sarah tonin
Posts: 107
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Amadea T wrote:
I have worked hard to get to where I'm at, comfort level, experience, skill, and I will not be talked to like I have something for sale that would compromise my future business, since I actually DO have business. You're right. Your business is your body. From what you say, your body has made you quite successful. So why let comments from silly little girls like me bother you?
I do appreciate everyone's useful advice in this thread. Given me a lot to think about
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
vivian rose wrote:
You're right. Your business is your body. From what you say, your body has made you quite successful. So why let comments from silly little girls like me bother you?
I do appreciate everyone's useful advice in this thread. Given me a lot to think about Every model's business is their body. You should be more careful with your comments.
Model
Dea and the Beast
Posts: 4796
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
vivian rose wrote:
You're right. Your business is your body. From what you say, your body has made you quite successful. So why let comments from silly little girls like me bother you?
I do appreciate everyone's useful advice in this thread. Given me a lot to think about You
basically called me ( and others "representing" certain genres) a prostitute. Although you have no clue just what you talk about.
As much as I want to just tell you to go fuck yourself I must remember the good upbringing I enjoyed and just let you crash and burn all on your own. I remind myself that it's not the years, but the mileage and that You won't catch up no matter what. Not intellectually, artistically or compassionately. I'll sleep well.
Good day, madam.
Model
sarah tonin
Posts: 107
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
This thread is so entertaining.
By the way the reason I'm wondering about how far I should go before I can set a rate....I need to pay for school. I'll be spending a good portion of my life paying off the student loans I took out this semester.
And ever since I started this thread I've gotten three different offers to do a paid photoshoot!
Model
D A N I
Posts: 4627
Little Rock, Arkansas, US
vivian rose wrote:
This thread is so entertaining.
By the way the reason I'm wondering about how far I should go before I can set a rate....I need to pay for school. I'll be spending a good portion of my life paying off the student loans I took out this semester.
And ever since I started this thread I've gotten three different offers to do a paid photoshoot! Most models that start threads about paid work get random offers to model for payment...
Model
sarah tonin
Posts: 107
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
D A N I wrote:
Most models that start threads about paid work get random offers to model for payment... Maybe it's not a random offer, but these photographers truly do like my look. They want to PAY me to have MY FACE in their portfolio.
Model
D A N I
Posts: 4627
Little Rock, Arkansas, US
vivian rose wrote:
Maybe it's not a random offer, but these photographers truly do like my look. They want to PAY me to have MY FACE in their portfolio. Congrats!
Photographer
NewBoldPhoto
Posts: 5216
PORT MURRAY, New Jersey, US
vivian rose wrote:
Maybe it's not a random offer, but these photographers truly do like my look. They want to PAY me to have MY FACE in their portfolio. Brings to mind something Mr. Barnum is alleged to have said.
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
vivian rose wrote:
This thread is so entertaining.
By the way the reason I'm wondering about how far I should go before I can set a rate....I need to pay for school. I'll be spending a good portion of my life paying off the student loans I took out this semester.
And ever since I started this thread I've gotten three different offers to do a paid photoshoot! On top of that, the thread is already on its fourth page. I'd say thank you and take every paid booking you can. Good work!
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
vivian rose wrote:
Maybe it's not a random offer, but these photographers truly do like my look. They want to PAY me to have MY FACE in their portfolio. I wonder about those guys. I wouldn't.
Photographer
barepixels
Posts: 3195
San Diego, California, US
congrats
we look forward to see these three different offers results.
Photographer
ValHig
Posts: 495
London, England, United Kingdom
cwwmbm wrote:
I may not the best person to give advice because I do not pay models out of my pocket. With that said, few random thoughts:
- Paying / being paid / doing TF comes to the fact who needs the shoot to happen. The rule of thumb is this - if you'd like to get photos after the shoot you shouldn't charge. Same goes for photographer - if he thinks the photos will be cool to put up as a portfolio piece then he shouldn't charge (unless it's a commercial assignment, which we aren't talking about right now). Many will disagree here, and this isn't a strict rule, but it's a rule of thumb I like to use.
- It sounds like 100% people on model mayhem assume that there is no modeling outside of fashion, hence height comments. I don't know how this is not a well known fact, but there are more money in commercial modeling than in fashion, by a landslide. Example - I know a guy who recently got 10,000K royalty check to appear on billboards across the country. I know a gal who got flown to Chile for few days on top of few thousand dollars in payments, again, to be shot for a national campaign. Both of them would be laughed at on Model Mayhem for being "regular looking", "too short", and "not doing nudes". These type of jobs happen more than you know. Do whatever is needed to get on the roaster in talent agency, and I don't mean fashion agency. Not really. Commercial agencies still have height requirements, and almost every one I've seen has the same height reqs as fashion agencies (used to be signed with a few). The ones that didn't were also glamour agencies like Sam Bond and IMM, but as far as I'm aware there isn't a US equivalent.
Now, you may luck out and end up having a shot used by a company that offers a buy out, but banking a modelling career on the off-chance without having an agency is a pretty poor decision.
Model
sarah tonin
Posts: 107
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
ValHig wrote:
Now, you may luck out and end up having a shot used by a company that offers a buy out, but banking a modelling career on the off-chance without having an agency is a pretty poor decision. I'll be choosing the best photos out of my portfolio after a couple more shoots and then I'm gonna start applying to agencies. A few I have researched have height/size requirements only for runway modeling, and I know I'll never be able to do that!  I'm gonna try going for print modeling!
Model
Blaire_
Posts: 343
Portland, Oregon, US
I'm going to give you the gift of perspective. I am 5'10", I have been 5'10" ever since I was sixteen. I got into the modeling scene when I was just about that old. I got an agency in my early twenties (to date I have had four agencies), and a few paid jobs here and there. My stats were of agency standard, I was really hardworking, I had a very distinct look, and my attitude was very good, and I STILL didn't make enough money to live off of (until I went full freelance and shot nude).
I hate to rain on your agency parade, but the hard part isn't over once you get signed (if you get signed to a reputable agency, which is not likely at 5'4") Agencies have their 'sweethearts' maybe, 5 girls, who get 90 percent of the work, and then the rest are filler. They will not market you, they will not call you. If you are a thorn in their side, they may send you to a casting call to shut you up, a big, blanket thing where you will be up against every girl from every agency in town. And that's a reputable agency! If you get a less than reputable agency, they will sweet talk you and tell you that you will get work. Then they will say that they require a sign on fee of 200, and that you need to shoot with their photographer to get photos that match what they have on their site which will be anywhere from 300-800. Then they will say that you need classes, and their classes are about 400. And you still won't get paid agency work.
It's hard out there, and if I understand anything about your general attitude so far, you may have a difficult time getting people to like you (which is big in this industry).
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
Blaire_ wrote:
I'm going to give you the gift of perspective. I am 5'10", I have been 5'10" ever since I was sixteen. I got into the modeling scene when I was just about that old. I got an agency in my early twenties (to date I have had four agencies), and a few paid jobs here and there. My stats were of agency standard, I was really hardworking, I had a very distinct look, and my attitude was very good, and I STILL didn't make enough money to live off of (until I went full freelance and shot nude).
I hate to rain on your agency parade, but the hard part isn't over once you get signed (if you get signed to a reputable agency, which is not likely at 5'4") Agencies have their 'sweethearts' maybe, 5 girls, who get 90 percent of the work, and then the rest are filler. They will not market you, they will not call you. If you are a thorn in their side, they may send you to a casting call to shut you up, a big, blanket thing where you will be up against every girl from every agency in town. And that's a reputable agency! If you get a less than reputable agency, they will sweet talk you and tell you that you will get work. Then they will say that they require a sign on fee of 200, and that you need to shoot with their photographer to get photos that match what they have on their site which will be anywhere from 300-800. Then they will say that you need classes, and their classes are about 400. And you still won't get paid agency work.
It's hard out there, and if I understand anything about your general attitude so far, you may have a difficult time getting people to like you (which is big in this industry). The voice of experience!
Photographer
The Dave
Posts: 8848
Ann Arbor, Michigan, US
Vivian,
Vegas is different from the rest of the world when it comes to models. We do not have a print industry here. Models are not models here. Not in the sense that most people associate models with. I really hate to say this however if you think you will be able to make a living or even make enough money to pay for school by modeling for photographers, you are wrong. Really, really wrong. It has nothing to do with your looks, height, weight or any of the “normal” modeling stats that are so important to the rest of the world. It has everything to do with the type of “modeling” market that is here in Vegas.
Most of the modeling work here in Vegas is convention modeling not print. It may surprise you that 90% of the print work that models do here is for free, yup, they don’t get paid for it, they do it for tears. I do not know of a single model in Vegas that makes a living at modeling for magazines or photographers. Not even the nude models here can make it a full time job.
Agencies here are not like agencies in other cities. Vegas is a non-excusive town. Meaning models are signed with multiple agencies and most are. There are even agencies for those Showgirls you see on the strip posing for tips. Sadly I’m not kidding.
My wife is a model, she partially paid for her nursing degree by modeling. Even with my help and I’m pretty well connected here, she could not make enough to pay for all her school, maybe half, maybe a little less… The point is, don’t count on modeling to pay for school, even if you decide to do nudes, it will not be enough. If you really need a job that can offset your school costs, you may want to look into doing something else.
If you want to model, fine, model, but do it for fun and maybe a little extra money from time to time. Don’t count on it to live on or make a huge difference in your financial situation.
Something else about Vegas I should mention. Vegas is still old school in some ways, here networking, making friends in the right places and having a great attitude will open more doors than your looks will ever do. There are hundreds of pretty girls here already signed with various agencies competing for jobs and hundreds more willing to fight over the scraps.
As someone already posted above, agencies here also have their favorites, their A-List models, they get 90% of the jobs. I suggest you ask around and talk to other models here in Vegas, ask them how they are doing and where the money is at. I will be willing to bet you will be surprised by the answers you get.
Model
Koryn
Posts: 39496
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Model
sarah tonin
Posts: 107
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
-The Dave- wrote:
If you want to model, fine, model, but do it for fun and maybe a little extra money from time to time. Don’t count on it to live on or make a huge difference in your financial situation. Well of course not, I am not planning on making this a full-fledged career because I am going into the military after college (it's wise to not continue modeling after that). Ever since I was young people have always said I should model. I didn't really take those comments seriously until now. Even doing just a couple photo shoots with different photographers I have already learned a lot about the industry. It takes a lot of time, effort, and networking....
I started this thread because I wanted to see if it was possible to make some money out of this. I am doing it mostly for fun and as a confidence booster for myself.
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
vivian rose wrote:
Well of course not, I am not planning on making this a full-fledged career because I am going into the military after college (it's wise to not continue modeling after that). Ever since I was young people have always said I should model. I didn't really take those comments seriously until now. Even doing just a couple photo shoots with different photographers I have already learned a lot about the industry. It takes a lot of time, effort, and networking....
I started this thread because I wanted to see if it was possible to make some money out of this. I am doing it mostly for fun and as a confidence booster for myself. There are MM models who make money full time from modeling. They are very organized and experienced.
Model
Dea and the Beast
Posts: 4796
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Jerry Nemeth wrote:
There are MM models who make money full time from modeling. They are very organized and experienced. Whores.
Model
sarah tonin
Posts: 107
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Jerry Nemeth wrote:
There are MM models who make money full time from modeling. They are very organized and experienced. I don't have near enough experience, and right now school is the number one priority over modeling lol. And I bet those girls are taller than me.
Photographer
The Dave
Posts: 8848
Ann Arbor, Michigan, US
vivian rose wrote:
I started this thread because I wanted to see if it was possible to make some money out of this. I am doing it mostly for fun and as a confidence booster for myself. Then you already knew the answer. Yes, it is possible to make "some" money. As for the fun and confidence part, only you can put value on that.
Photographer
Photo Lolz
Posts: 525
New York, New York, US
vivian rose wrote:
Hello,
"I am just starting out in modeling." When your'e not saying this anymore, then you can start charging. A lot of people go years before they start charging, even agency models.
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45198
San Juan Bautista, California, US
vivian rose wrote:
I looked at your profile and saw that your "nude" and "fetish" albums received far more attention than your other ones: ones that included pictures of you NOT naked. The FACT is that nudity has always been in the forefront of art for a few thousand years. Study art history going back to ancient times. Statues and paintings had many nudes without sex being involved. There are reasons nudes and fetish are more viewed, such as it takes more skill to do it well, and there are fewer nudes to seen because it's so taboo in the United States and certain other ultra conservative countries. Nudity is not in itself about sex. The human body is magnificent, amazing, and beautiful. Nothing to be ashamed of. Why does it bother you that nudity or fetish would get more views than other more mainstream modeling work?
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45198
San Juan Bautista, California, US
When is it "safe to ask for paid work" in modeling? Any time is safe! If you are doing the asking, be accepting to rejection though. If you get offers, then you can negotiate. I recommend that you be open to TFP in between paid work though. If you place "Paid Only" on your profile, you may get fewer offers. Put something like "Depends on Offer" instead. Best wishes!
Photographer
DespayreFX
Posts: 1481
Delta, British Columbia, Canada
vivian rose wrote:
I don't have near enough experience, and right now school is the number one priority over modeling lol. And I bet those girls are taller than me. Yes, on the experience, no on the height. https://www.modelmayhem.com/1037281 Fantastic to work with, highly recommended.
Photographer
ValHig
Posts: 495
London, England, United Kingdom
Patrick Walberg wrote:
The FACT is that nudity has always been in the forefront of art for a few thousand years. Study art history going back to ancient times. Statues and paintings had many nudes without sex being involved. There are reasons nudes and fetish are more viewed, such as it takes more skill to do it well, and there are fewer nudes to seen because it's so taboo in the United States and certain other ultra conservative countries. Nudity is not in itself about sex. The human body is magnificent, amazing, and beautiful. Nothing to be ashamed of. Why does it bother you that nudity or fetish would get more views than other more mainstream modeling work? Not to mention, it's timeless. Someone with an interest in fashion can date a pic down to the season. A good nude can be shot today or 50 years ago.
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
ValHig wrote:
Not to mention, it's timeless. Someone with an interest in fashion can date a pic down to the season. A good nude can be shot today or 50 years ago. I have a 45 year old nude in my portfolio.
Photographer
Eyesso
Posts: 1218
Orlando, Florida, US
Did the topic change?
- If you have nothing to gain from the shoot, the concept, then ask for payment.
- If you feel like a proposed idea is something fresh that will add more variety to your portfolio, then ask for TFP.
- If you have an idea yourself, and found an amazing photographer that can bring it to life....ask for TFP, but be willing to pay.
That's the way it works, for both photographers and models.
Nudes Schmudes....that's it's own genre. If it's not your genre, don't worry about it, it's just one of the flavors in Baskin Robbins.
Model
Phane
Posts: 2063
Rockville, Maryland, US
vivian rose wrote:
Well of course not, I am not planning on making this a full-fledged career because I am going into the military after college (it's wise to not continue modeling after that). Ever since I was young people have always said I should model. I didn't really take those comments seriously until now. Even doing just a couple photo shoots with different photographers I have already learned a lot about the industry. It takes a lot of time, effort, and networking....
I started this thread because I wanted to see if it was possible to make some money out of this. I am doing it mostly for fun and as a confidence booster for myself. Actually Am Still modeling after two kids No age requirement!
You need to stop Proclaiming facts when you have not lived that long to see a Fact as a Fact! ha
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45198
San Juan Bautista, California, US
vivian rose wrote:
Well of course not, I am not planning on making this a full-fledged career because I am going into the military after college (it's wise to not continue modeling after that). Ever since I was young people have always said I should model. I didn't really take those comments seriously until now. Even doing just a couple photo shoots with different photographers I have already learned a lot about the industry. It takes a lot of time, effort, and networking....
I started this thread because I wanted to see if it was possible to make some money out of this. I am doing it mostly for fun and as a confidence booster for myself. I hope that the military is good for you. One of the hardest working models I've ever had the pleasure of working with is former military. She served in both the Navy and Army as an information specialist. I met her after her service. At age 32, Caren Curtis has a teenaged daughter who is getting close to adult age, and she has a toddler too! Looking so youthful, she easily passes for her teen daughters big sister!
Caren is a qualified para-legal, and quite a talented singer as well as doing some modeling. She has no problem with doing nudes. A profile link to her is on my MM profile page. I can't thank her enough not only for her service to this country, but how she kicked ass in helping me set up my booth for a car show and was out there day after day working hard during a three day show. "They don't call them Army Strong for nothing!" She is a beautiful woman, and wonderful person who although she does not have "agency standard" stats, doesn't give a damn! I recommend her for modeling jobs where a real hard working "trooper" is needed.
If you have a blast at modeling, then don't worry so much about what everyone thinks. It's not as black and white as you seem to think based on some of your comments. I've already mentioned that there is no set rules as to when to charge. Please do feel free to accept money from those who offer it. (not necessarily the shady ones though!) Practice reasonable negotiation with those who are not sure what to pay, and do accept some trade shoots that you feel may benefit you even if it's just to keep in practice.
Those people who have told you that you should model might be on to something. Having fun and building your confidence is important. You seem very head strong about your beliefs though. The impression I'm getting is that you lack maturity. I suppose that I thought I knew everything when I was 19 too. The older I got, the more I understand that I really don't know all that much. Perhaps with maturity one grows to realize that knowing facts and figures are simply less important than being in tune with intuition and feelings. I would not be interested in shooting with you at your young age, but perhaps after you are done with the military experience, I would be happy to hire you to model. In the meantime, Vivian Rose, you have my best wishes!
Model
Magda Kulpinska
Posts: 688
Paris, Île-de-France, France
I think the good moment is when people offer to pay. If you're not interested in shooting with someone because your portfolio won't benefit, then ask for compensation. Keep shooting TF with those whose work will actually improve your portfolio.
Photographer
Image K
Posts: 23400
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
vivian rose wrote:
I honestly don't want to do nudes. I think a model can still find success without getting naked. Or is that honestly what it takes to be a successful model? A model has to be willing to shoot nudes for the photographer to even consider paying her? If that is the case, then maybe I should look at doing something different. Maybe you should.
You and I live in a town that has a LOT of beautiful women in it from all parts of the world...and they all think that they can model. Your stats are very commonplace, and it will be very difficult for you to distinguish yourself from the pack.
Yes, models can still find success without doing nudes...but they better have some height (generally) and something to offer that is distinctive.
Photographer
Image K
Posts: 23400
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
vivian rose wrote:
I am going into the military after college (it's wise to not continue modeling after that). Why is it not wise?
There are plenty of models on MM that are active military or ex-military. lol
Photographer
Image K
Posts: 23400
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
vivian rose wrote:
You're right. Your business is your body. From what you say, your body has made you quite successful. So why let comments from silly little girls like me bother you?
I do appreciate everyone's useful advice in this thread. Given me a lot to think about You did get a lot to think about, didn't you? lol
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
Image K wrote:
Why is it not wise?
There are plenty of models on MM that are active military or ex-military. lol This is true.
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I'm gonna try going for print modeling!
